The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    Ok so the brand new Ibanez GB10SE made in Indonesia arrived yesterday from Thomann germany and I got a first chance to have a look at it up close.
    I've read in this forum how many people bought this same guitar and state that theirs were beautiful and perfect in every way. Some even compared it to the GB 10 made in Japan and said there were no discernible differences.

    Let's take a quick peek at mine.

    The first thing is that the guitar at a distance looks absolutely beautiful..
    The weight and balance are completely perfect, the size is comfortably compact and the guitar is pleasantly light when sitting on your playing leg.

    Mine apparently went through a thorough quality inspection and examination before being shipped to me but it seems like they missed a few things.
    For a guitar that's almost £1400 this is pretty shocking.
    I have a cheap Telecaster that was £400 that is finished far better in every single way.


    Brass nut covered in rough file marks and very poorly fit.

    Appalling quality of brand new Ibanez GB10SE (Indonesia)-1-jpeg

    Appalling quality of brand new Ibanez GB10SE (Indonesia)-2-jpeg


    I have fitted and done better nut jobs myself...

    Appalling quality of brand new Ibanez GB10SE (Indonesia)-3-jpeg


    Every single fret on both sides of the guitar is coming off the side binding with a gap big enough you can put your fingernail under each one.
    In fact if I lay the guitar down on its back and I put a fingernail on each side under a fret I can lift the entire guitar up upright.

    Appalling quality of brand new Ibanez GB10SE (Indonesia)-4-jpeg
    Appalling quality of brand new Ibanez GB10SE (Indonesia)-5-jpeg


    Try to bend the E string down too far and it snags and gets stuck on any one of the frets

    Appalling quality of brand new Ibanez GB10SE (Indonesia)-6-jpeg


    The gold plate coating on the neck pickup is completely missing on the sides and ends exposing the silver underneath.

    Appalling quality of brand new Ibanez GB10SE (Indonesia)-7-jpeg
    Appalling quality of brand new Ibanez GB10SE (Indonesia)-8-jpeg
    Last edited by Maxxx; 12-01-2022 at 08:32 AM.

  2.  

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  3. #2
    The binding around the neck join is a complete mess.. and on the side there appears to be a crack developing which could be the beginning of neck detachment.

    Appalling quality of brand new Ibanez GB10SE (Indonesia)-10-jpeg
    Appalling quality of brand new Ibanez GB10SE (Indonesia)-9-jpeg
    Appalling quality of brand new Ibanez GB10SE (Indonesia)-11-jpeg
    Appalling quality of brand new Ibanez GB10SE (Indonesia)-12-jpeg

    For people that think and are saying that the made in Japan model and the Indonesian model are the same are completely mistaken.. the difference is chalk and cheese in every way.
    Even Ibanez are being economical with the truth when they say they are the same.

  4. #3
    From the other side of the room it looks stunning and handsome as hell.
    And will continue to do so as long as you remain on the other side of the room..

    Appalling quality of brand new Ibanez GB10SE (Indonesia)-photo_2022-11-24-11-11-08-jpeg
    Appalling quality of brand new Ibanez GB10SE (Indonesia)-photo_2022-11-24-11-11-14-jpeg

  5. #4

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    Nice from afar but far from nice.
    I hope you're sending it back, that should be pretty embarrassing for Ibanez. I would guess GB might be peeved with his name being on that.

  6. #5

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    I had one of the MiC SEs. It did not have those issues.

  7. #6

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    Excellent post, Maxx!
    Marinero

  8. #7

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    The Indonesian factories that make Ibanez build to spec but their materials, QC and labour is local. That means wood stock that may be of fast growing woods with high water content (you should see balsa before it's dried. It's heavy because it's mostly water) and a labour force that's paid according to a pay scale that makes fast food workers in consumer countries look like robber barons.
    Sure you'll get some that go together nicely, look like a GB10 made in Japan but having worked on the Ibanez import facility, I can say Indonesian guitars are really risky in my experience. They're built cheap to be sold cheap. They work, but they don't fly like a duck.
    On the processing line, there were QC standards for guitars and there were "looser" rejection criteria for Indonesian versions of prestige guitars. Some of them felt like they had balsa sustain blocks.
    Try them out first.
    Japanese GB10, you can be confident you'll get some crazy high standards of production. Indonesian, I wouldn't buy untried.
    Send it back. They won't be surprized.

    For a little while they made Korean GB10 guitars, I think they had a JS suffix on them. I actually prefered them over the Japanese versions because the Rosewood they used was the highest quality and it gave those guitars a distinct acoustic 'ring' to them missing in Fujigen line guitars. And those were made by Peerless and then sported the Ibanez headstock.

    Japanese: Highest standards in the world
    Korean: In the same league but made in larger facilities and less expensive.
    Chinese: Some great instruments and always getting better. They CAN build guitars to exceed anything made anywhere, but companies contract for them to intentionally cut corners so they can make a higher profit margin. So the spectrum is wide coming from China.
    Indonesian: It's all corner cutting but it be very pretty.

    It's a minefield if you think one guitar brand label is going to give you the same product throughout the line.

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note
    Indonesian: It's all corner cutting but it be very pretty.
    PRS SE guitars are made in Indonesia.

  10. #9

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    I used to own a Dean Strat clone made in Malaysia. After a year I noticed cracks developing in the neck. I believe the wood was not properly cured.

  11. #10

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    Cheap guitars can be very well put together and very nice. They follow the same techniques and plans as any guitar. The thing is, to be cheap they cannot lavish attention on quality control or be picky about the raw materials. It could be a really nice piece of wood cut perfectly. If it isn't, it still gets made into a guitar and sold. The frets could be seated very well, but if they are not then no one has the time to do it right. The nut slotting is probably done in a gang saw by a well aligned slotting machine, but if the alignment is off or the blades dull there is no one to notice or make it right. You get the idea.

    If you are going to buy a cheap guitar, try them out first. You can't rely on brand. I have seen crap Epiphones and great ones, crap Ibanez and great ones, and yes even crap PRS. You might be able to order a Campelleone sight unseen and know you are getting the best of the best. On the other end of the scale, I would never advise ordering a guitar you haven't actually played and inspected yourself.

  12. #11

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    Lots of answers about generalities (except JBN)
    Specifically for the OP there is only one answer:
    Return and Exchange It.
    (I have two Indo Ibanez, neither look anything like that. Although as Jimmy says, the Indo sound is not the greatest at all.)
    Good Luck!
    jk

  13. #12

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    A friend of mine has a GB40thII, which is the MIC version of the GB40th. It’s a very nice guitar, and they seem to be fairly abundant used. I’d recommend looking for one of those.

  14. #13

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    Well, that is just really disappointing to see. My experience with the GB10 is the Japanese build one and that is, as others have said, of the highest quality that a guitar factory could produce.

  15. #14

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    They can make really nice things in Indonesia, but its pittoresque "ethnic aspect" ofte doesn't just come from the designs and materials used. That's fine if you buy things for their decorative aspect, not so much in a guitar or other instrument/tool that should be made to strict tolerances.

    Curiously I've known quite a few Indonesians (both from a previous generation who had to flee the country after the independance and younger scientists) and most all had something (very) meticulous to them.

    Careful with judging local wages though. Maybe these factory workers are indeed underpaid even to local standards but the cost of living was always cheap there (in the 90s you could live there like a king for less than 15€ a day).

  16. #15

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    My Yamaha Pacifica 012 is Indonesian.

    The hardware (HB pickup died, switch needed to be replaced, it already had replacement tuners when I got it) has broken, but the basic guitar (all the wood) is great. I don't think there was any problem with the luthiery, but I do think they went for cheap parts -- not surprising because this is their cheapest model. It has the slimmest neck of any guitar I've played -- not for everyone but I love it.

  17. #16

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    i would have thought the whole thing was CNC made

  18. #17
    I didn't even want to talk about the pickups.. these are a cheap low grade inferior knock offs of the REAL GB Special.

    And they sound it. Harsh, metallic and cold as a witches tit.

    Let's just focus on the nut for a moment.

    Here's what the Ibanez half bone half brass nut should look like.. More bone than brass, in fact mostly bone and a lesser slimmer piece of brass.

    Nicely finished, nicely cut with the strings sitting nicely and protruding over the top. Ends neatly rounded off.

    Benson GB10 (Japan)

    Appalling quality of brand new Ibanez GB10SE (Indonesia)-screenshot-2022-11-24-22-25-55-jpg

    Scofield (Japan) Big chunk of bone..

    Appalling quality of brand new Ibanez GB10SE (Indonesia)-screenshot-2022-11-24-22-22-27-jpg


    Compare that with this monstrosity.. a huge slab of brass, in fact more than two thirds more brass than bone which may account for the cold overy bright, metallic shrill this guitar makes.

    Appalling quality of brand new Ibanez GB10SE (Indonesia)-1-jpeg

    String spaces brutally chopped by a blind man with blunt hacksaw and strings laying insanely deep into the cuts. They have not even bothered to removed the burs that the hacksaw left.
    No shaping, rounding of the ends, no finishing or care shown whatsoever.

    Back to how it sounds.. this guys video below gives a very good example.



    A nice sounding guitar is meant to make you feel happy and joyful when you play it.. which is often reflected in your facial expression.

    It looked look like this man was in physical pain and really suffering with this guitar. I have to say though it does sound incredibly cold, harsh and dead. And certainly did not 'sing'. I even had to turn the volume down as that tone hurt my ears.
    I bought an Ibanez AS153 (£900) some years ago.. even though it was meant to have the famed Super 58 pickups, they too were Ibanez knocking off their own pickups and labeling them the same as the premiums. That thing sounded cold, frigid and sterile.

    ZERO resonance or warmth. For me a guitar is a very physical thing and my ears and body hated it. I never got rid of a guitar so fast in my life and it was the first instrument I ever had that made me NOT want to even play.

    The issue appears to be right across the Ibanez cheaper guitar range.. these Chinese or Indonesian lower priced models look like they have the same specs in writing as their prestige Japanese big brothers but they are entirely different guitars.


    Even the pickups listed in the spec of the AS153, the "GB Special" are not the same as in the prestige models like the Scofield JSM100 which lists the same "GB special".

    The GB10SE is exactly the same when compared to the Japanese GB10. They are completely different instruments in terms of woods, pickups, craftsmanship and consequently sound and playability which I have finally had confirmed after repeated pressing by Ibanez themselves.
    Ibanez really needs to stop doing that.


    Having said that this GB10SE can be hit or miss in that some people actually get a half decent one. Here's one with a tad better tone, but still too bright cold and metallic for me.




    Why did I buy it?

    I have seen a ton of videos where it sounded half nice with them all saying how much they love it, I needed to know for myself if this was the case.

    It was also a fill in and meant to keep me quiet till the Japan made version gets delivered.

    There are a good number of people in this forum that have stated that their Chinese/Indonesian GB10SE's are almost beyond perfect.. and some say even better than the Japan models..

    But they never post videos of how they sound and the only pics we ever see are "from a distance".

    To all those that have a GB10SE that you are totally happy with (or not as the case may be..) I cordially invite you post real close up details of the brass/bone nuts, the pickups, the fret ends, the bindings and neck joints..

    Let's see how many extolling and praising this guitar accept the challenge.

    If this is true.. than show us your nuts.
    Last edited by Maxxx; 11-24-2022 at 07:37 PM.

  19. #18

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    Well, evidently it was made in a factory that makes guitars... not a "guitar factory" or workshop in the old-world sense of the phrase. They might as well be making rattan furniture.
    Last edited by ChazFromCali; 11-26-2022 at 07:25 AM.

  20. #19

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    Maybe theyre taking QC inspiration from Gibson?

  21. #20

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    That's the ugliest work I've ever seen on a new guitar lol! You sent it back right?

  22. #21

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    All arguments, like "but the Japanese are superior" or the arguments that MIK then MIC, then MII qualitiy order make me more and more disapponted.

    I do not trust a company who practically has no respect for the customers, has no respect for its product, and this particular case also has no respect for George Benson. I as a customer I buy an Ibanez, I mean I b a n e z for the price of Ibanez. If is OK to have different models for different prices, but definitely not OK to sell the same model wthis same look with same price with such a different quality. It is practically a self counterfeit.

    Now they think, it was enough to buy once George Benson, and create beautiful looking guitars. Well it is not. Especially nowadays, when using modern manufacturing technology nonames can create beautiful looking things for $350, see Alibaba. But those are not instruments...

    Bottom line why would anyone trust in a company who has such a cheap attitude?

  23. #22

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    Bottom line why would anyone trust in a company who has such a cheap attitude?
    You seem to think it was conscious company policy, like Fender putting out guitars with lacquer all over the frets as they did in the late ‘80s. I doubt that. Ibanez never took that route in their long history. On the contrary, the brand is widely associated with excellence. This seems to me like a bad incident. Their QC process failed.

    For what it’s worth, I’m a huge PRS fan. Love the brand to bits. I think we can all agree that PRS is completely OCD about quality. Well… had an S2 where the neck warped after a month. They sent me another one. Had a 594 where the bridge saddles had been done wrong, the strings snagged in the saddles making the guitar unplayable. How that ever passed their US QC is a mystery. They sent me a new bridge. Bought a NOS DC3 about a year after they stopped building them. Tuners are stiff and have slack. They told me there was a bad batch of tuners once and sadly my DC3 has them. They referred me to their webshop for new tuners and wished me all the best. Long story short, it happens. It’s not good, but it happens.

  24. #23

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    That's a pity. But quality problems can come in every price range. For example the first japanese GB10 I got had a problem with the trussrod. It took me a couple of days to figure out because there was a rattle only on one note. They replaced it and the one I have now is perfect. Problem solved.
    I was lucky with some chinese made Ibanez guitars also. An AG75 and a JSM10 were both great guitars for the money and the craftmanship was amazing too.
    I would just send it back and try another sample. You may be lucky.

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabor
    All arguments, like "but the Japanese are superior" or the arguments that MIK then MIC, then MII qualitiy order make me more and more disapponted.

    I do not trust a company who practically has no respect for the customers, has no respect for its product, and this particular case also has no respect for George Benson. I as a customer I buy an Ibanez, I mean I b a n e z for the price of Ibanez. If is OK to have different models for different prices, but definitely not OK to sell the same model wthis same look with same price with such a different quality. It is practically a self counterfeit.

    Now they think, it was enough to buy once George Benson, and create beautiful looking guitars. Well it is not. Especially nowadays, when using modern manufacturing technology nonames can create beautiful looking things for $350, see Alibaba. But those are not instruments...

    Bottom line why would anyone trust in a company who has such a cheap attitude?
    My opinions...are merely opinions. Some opinions are based on the opinions of others, and some based on observations they have made from original source observations. Some opinions are based on experience. That's the ambiguity of on line "fact" vs opinion.
    When I personally state something, I am qualifying my opinions by being as specific as I can, and anyone can agree or disagree. We are talking Ibanez, or Hoshino Gakki, and I speak with an intention of sharing insight gleaned from actually working for Ibanez at the Bensalem PA plant where EVERY SINGLE Ibanez that comes into the US is received, inspected, serviced, set up, rejected or analyzed for inherent flaws and that information is directly conveyed to a team of in-house residential Japanese representatives (How dedicated is that? That they have an obligation to live a term of their professional career in a foreign country sending reports back to Japan so they can be in touch with the pulse of their production?).
    They're an exceptional company. I've seen and worked intimately on all their guitars from the Talman line (made for sale in department stores) to their Prestige line (where instruments are made for George Benson personally and delivered to him personally via his contractural perks.) So yeah, I can speak from a position of experience.
    So when I say it's wise to be aware that Indonesian guitars built according to the materials and standards of that country, yeah, Hoshino is aware and they laud those factories for their ability to turn out great looking guitars to a demographic that really values the fantasy of a legendary guitar AND save a bunch of money.(...maybe values that more than the hard work on the instrument that it takes to be a professional, demanding professional standards.)

    There is some mystique that is created in all successful guitar companies: Make fantastic pro quality instruments that big names use.
    Look at their endorsers roster. The consumer is buying GEORGE's guitar on some level. If George trusts them, I can. Now the consumer wants Georges guitar and look!, at a fraction of the price. And everyone says it's the same! Great! Well this is why they're still around today: Marketing and selling fantasy while delivering that perception in a product that doesn't cost as much to produce.

    Sometimes it can be true. That's why I cited the GB10JS built in the Peerless factory in Korea. THAT was the find. I think it was the AS180(?) that had all the specs and spirit of Sco's guitar but a body made in Korea. Another short lived absolute find bargain. None of these examples was touted as "The bargain you're looking for" but they did exist.

    The more you know about how a particular gakki works, the better you're equipped to find yourself exactly what will serve you best.
    Are there times I recommend finding a used Fujigen over a new Chinese guitar? Oh yeah. But brand new is not on my highest criteria list.
    Know what you want. Get information. Find the right match. That's the game.
    Then play that guitar until you're as good as you are in your wildest fantasies. You can have all your dreams come true if you're dedicated and well informed.
    Good luck.

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxxx
    Why did I buy it?
    [...]
    It was also a fill in and meant to keep me quiet till the Japan made version gets delivered.
    We have this saying in Dutch that making hasty haste seldom goes well...

    At least now you get to go all Jimi Hendrix on it ... plus we know where players with such extra-musical tastes can get their non-counterfeit knock-offs...