The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    What's happening ?
    Everything works well but what is that ?

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  3. #2

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    Impact from the right (bottom of the guitar)?

    Looks like the saddles are all the way back to compensate.

    Assuming the posts weren't originally manufactured that way, I'd expect some free play where the posts go into the wood which would typically create some tuning instability.

  4. #3

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    The tuning is fine, no instability.

  5. #4

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    The saddle on my Loar leans the other way, and more so on the treble than on the bass side. I cannot see any proof or trace of the posts having collapsed in the wood - ebony being very brittle that might not even be possible without them simply breaking lose from the wood.

  6. #5

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    To me the bridge just needs set up correctly. Then the saddle set up over it again and intonate. If the bridge does not conform the the top radius then possibly some movement has occurred in top. Need a few more pictures of guitar from above to see.

    I would not keep the bridge and saddle like this even though it might intonate perfect. It is not supposed to look like that and has better structural interior sitting at 90 degrees.

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by deacon Mark
    To me the bridge just needs set up correctly. Then the saddle set up over it again and intonate. If the bridge does not conform the the top radius then possibly some movement has occurred in top. Need a few more pictures of guitar from above to see.

    I would not keep the bridge and saddle like this even though it might intonate perfect. It is not supposed to look like that and has better structural interior sitting at 90 degrees.
    Can I replace it by another one ?
    Is it easy to replace ?
    It's a very cheap guitar...

  8. #7

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    Is this even a hollow-body? IMHO, if it isn't or if your not at all interested in playing acoustically I would leave it as is until it becomes a problem.

    Is the base wood?
    If so, what you could do is take the whole thing off and then lift the saddle off the posts and see if the posts can be unscrewed from the base. If that's the case there are basically 2 possibilities:
    - they've been bent. In that case, you should be able to replace them. Should be the cheapest & easiest option provided you can find fitting replacements.
    - they're straight. In that case, you could fill the holes with something suitable and drill new holes. Or have it done - you'd need a drill press to be certain the posts will end up vertical.

  9. #8

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    It's very easy to change the bridge. It's only held in place by the pressure from the strings, and can be moved a little even without loosening them. You can get a new bridge from ebay for very little money, and they work fine. The posts need to be screwed down to the bottom of the holes, which can be enlarged by pressure, especially if not seated properly. I would first loosen the strings, remove the bridge, and check the posts and holes, making sure the posts are all the way down. That might be enough to straighten the posts in the base, or maybe not. You can shim the holes with thin pieces of wood, perhaps toothpicks, to make the posts fit tightly. It's not the perfect repair, but it will work on a cheap guitar, and perhaps save buying another bridge. Or you might need a new bridge, hard to say without actually inspecting the bridge. But I tend to try the easiest and cheapest solutions first, before investing large amounts of money. What I would do with a cheap guitar probably wouldn't be the same thing I would do with an expensive vintage one, but then again it might, depending.

  10. #9

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  11. #10

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    The posts should be perpendicular to the base. Any angle in either direction puts pressure on the side of the base, and will eventually result in failure. Frank Ford has forgotten more about guitar work than most people will ever know.

  12. #11

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    I don't know... but that's not supposed to be like that. should be straight up not at an angle.

  13. #12

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    Thanks, since it works fine like this, until it breaks... I'll keep it like this and will buy a new one, "same" model or a wooden one ?

  14. #13

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    That's a severe case of a forward leaning bridge. The bridge posts are bent.

    -What happened? Most likely the bridge was hit by a blow from the lid of the case, falling onto the bridge.

    -A falling lid ? Yes, that's common and happens because the strap (that's supposed to keep the lid upright when open) is a fraction too short, and/or the clumsy user carelessly leaves the guitar inside the open case and accidently bumps into the lid that slams down onto the bridge. Boom.

    -But the lid is not supposed to touch the bridge, no? Lots of hard cases are far too tight, some even put stress on the neck and the bridge when carefully closed. Check the imprint in the lining, to get an idea of how tight your case is.

    -But isn't this a matter of how high the user sets his bridge? If for any reason the guitar has a very high raised bridge there's an increased risk that the bridge gets squeezed inside the case.

    -Oops, anything else? Yes, don't try to intonate a floating bridge by sliding the bridge foot under severe string pressure. Heavy strings on a high raised bridge multiplies string pressure.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by JCat
    Heavy strings on a high raised bridge multiplies string pressure.
    [EDIT: somehow I misread the above as "heavy strings on a leaning bridge multiplies string pressure" ]
    In that context:
    If anything the string pressure is slightly lower because the saddle is slightly lower. What does happen is that the posts and the base are under an additional load parallel to the top which tends to aggravate this situation.

    Looking at the threads I don't see any evidence of bending in the posts so if this was the result of an accident I'd say a bump from behind is more likely than an impact from mostly straight above like a case would do. A guitar slipping out from a stand and hitting something with the saddle on the way down could cause that.
    Last edited by RJVB; 11-21-2022 at 06:52 PM.

  16. #15

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    Get another one. There is potential there for something bad to happen eventually.

    Parts | Reverb

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by RJVB
    ??
    When the bridge is raised by turning the thumbwheels (bridge in this context meaning bridge body, saddles/saddle and bridge foot) things happen:

    i, the string break angle increases (unless compensated by an adjustable tailpiece). This factor alone increases the force on the bridge and top.

    ii, String height increases across the board (this would typically be the objective for raising the bridge). Not only at 12th fret where people usually measure, but from 1st to last fret. String pull on the neck increases, bending the neck forward, meaning there will be a slight increase in neck relief, just by turning the thumbwheels upwards. If this is compensated by tightening the trussrod, the force on the bridge increases even more.

    The heavier the gauge, the greater the string tension and the corresponding bridge pressure.
    The stress on the bridge makes it flat over time and could also bend the bridge posts, particularly at impact.
    The threaded post holes could become enlarged (so that posts are wobbling). This typically happens when someone turns the thumbwheels with great force, trying to raise a bridge under extreme load.

  18. #17

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    1. Loosen strings
    2. Pull back saddle (towards tailpiece) until posts are perpendicular (90 degrees) to bridge base
    3. Tune strings to pitch
    4. Done

    The saddle might slip back to a leaning position, eventually, just from string pressure. It might not. You may have to intonate after adjusting, you may not. You might want a new bridge someday, you might not, especially if it's an inexpensive guitar. Maybe you just play the heck out of the guitar and adjust it again if needed.

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chazmo
    1. Loosen strings
    2. Pull back saddle (towards tailpiece) until posts are perpendicular (90 degrees) to bridge base
    3. Tune strings to pitch
    4. Done

    The saddle might slip back to a leaning position, eventually, just from string pressure. It might not. You may have to intonate after adjusting, you may not. You might want a new bridge someday, you might not, especially if it's an inexpensive guitar. Maybe you just play the heck out of the guitar and adjust it again if needed.
    I did it before you said it ! That was so simple !
    The problem is solved !

  20. #19

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    I want to change it because it hasn't got two feet but a lonely foot like a snail, there is not enough wood, although the intonation can be done with a screwdriver, the access is limited by the bridge pickup.
    It doesn't seem very strong, a lot of noise when I play it unplugged.
    Maybe a wooden one would be better.
    What do you think of this one ?

  21. #20

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    Do you observe the threaded posts bending back? Could be cheap soft metal.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Sound
    Do you observe the threaded posts bending back? Could be cheap soft metal.
    No, not at all !

  23. #22

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    Those bridges work fine, and are available almost anywhere. The tone will probably be a little darker than with the TOM, but it's impossible to say how much. Changing from a solid base to a footed one gives unpredictable results, IME. It depends on the guitar and the bridge. It shouldn't cost much to experiment. Intonation is slightly more difficult, done by very slight movements of the entire bridge assembly, but it's far from impossible. I've replaced the TOM on every guitar I've owned with wood, because I just don't like the tone of them, on any guitar I've played. YMMV.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lionelsax
    I did it before you said it ! That was so simple !
    The problem is solved !
    Seems to me that the holes in the bridge, into which the posts fit, must be enlarged. If the guitar won't hold tune perfectly, that could be why. It won't go way out of tune, but you'll have to retune often, if that's the problem.

  25. #24

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    The holes can be shimmed with thin wood - toothpick ends, spare thin laminate, whatever - and the posts re-screwed to make a tight fit.

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    Seems to me that the holes in the bridge, into which the posts fit, must be enlarged. If the guitar won't hold tune perfectly, that could be why. It won't go way out of tune, but you'll have to retune often, if that's the problem.
    The guitar is "perfect" and stays tuned but I noticed something, on the tune-o-matic it seems that it works like a pair of three saddles, one for plain strings, the other one for wound strings. My G string makes extra noises (kind of acoustic overdrive), it's a flatwound one.
    I've just ordered the wooden bridge, sets of roundwound strings (EJ21) because I'm kind of fed up with flatwound strings, I like the acoustic sound of this archtop.
    I will have many options (I ordered single plain G strings too, we don't know... if I want to go back to the original bridge...), I wanted to create a new thread for that but I don't think it's necessary.
    Thanks for your comments, the guitar works very well.
    Well, I'm becoming a guitarist, a lot of gears and options... And sure, I talk a lot !
    Last edited by Lionelsax; 11-22-2022 at 07:03 PM.