The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    So what’s the difference between boost and drive?

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by ccroft View Post
    I'll add J.Rockett Blue Note to the list. Well regarded by a few folks here, which is why I went with it. A little pricey, but it's designed for this and does it well.

    It's very good at the 'barely know it's there' thing. It can also do 'definitely there', but not to the level of a tube screamer.
    Blue Note is great, get the version with the Hot switch. Because you can turn the hot switch OFF and instead of an OD, it's a sweet clean boost. It's one of the best ODs I've ever owned, and I've probably owned a hundred at this point, no joke.

  4. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcjazz View Post
    So what’s the difference between boost and drive?
    A boost pedal can be used to feed the amp’s input a hotter signal, which can cause the amp’s preamp section to distort. Works well with some amps,
    especially BF Fender style circuits.

  5. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A. View Post
    A boost pedal can be used to feed the amp’s input a hotter signal, which can cause the amp’s preamp section to distort. Works well with some amps,
    especially BF Fender style circuits.
    And drive?

  6. #30

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    May I add a +1 for the venerable Danelectro Daddy-O. The three band EQ is priceless. With my DRRI it makes 3 sound like 7, at a 3 level. I believe it's a Gov'nor variant. Edge to OMG! With a knob twirl!

  7. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcjazz View Post
    And drive?
    Drive is short for “overdrive", distortion pedals with moderate amounts of distortion. In reality, the categories are not so clear. E.g., there are OD pedals that can do clean boost.

  8. #32

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    Check the Nux Morning star. It is a well built mini pedal that is basically a jhs morning glory clone. You get it on for about 40euros.

    According to the jhs guy himself it captures 98% of the essence of their pedal.

    I have it and I loved it.

  9. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcjazz View Post
    So what’s the difference between boost and drive?
    not much really. And heaps. Boost specific pedals are generally fewer gain stages, may colour the tone (or not at all) and offer up very light distortion.

    ODs have signature tone colours (klon vs blues driver vs tube screamer) and timbre (diode vs op amp vs germanium/silicone diodes etc) and go from cleanish boost to distortion.

    distortion goes further again.

    the gap between boost/OD and preamp is grey as well. I think the primary difference is the signal strength potential (hence preamp) going from instrument to line level. I could be wrong on that though. The benson preamp, paradriver di, Hudson broadcast are all great examples.

    How each of these react with your pickups voice and strength, amp front end, other gain pedals, other effects pedals etc is where the magic lies.
    EMike.

  10. #34

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    A boost sounds a bit counterintuitive to me – as I want less volume. But I understand that it drives the amp harder. One of the guys who's sound I like, Eddie Roberts from The New Mastersounds, uses an EP-Boost with a twin and an ES 330. I have no idea how loud this band is as I never saw them live – I was just assuming they are LOUD.
    If I apply a boost: Does the volume control of my Vibrolux acts more like a master volume then?
    I could just try it with the boost from my Tech21 Fly Rig for the next gig. And If that doesn't work I could try the sansamp section.

  11. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by guavajelly View Post
    A boost sounds a bit counterintuitive to me – as I want less volume. But I understand that it drives the amp harder. One of the guys who's sound I like, Eddie Roberts from The New Mastersounds, uses an EP-Boost with a twin and an ES 330. I have no idea how loud this band is as I never saw them live – I was just assuming they are LOUD.
    If I apply a boost: Does the volume control of my Vibrolux acts more like a master volume then?
    I could just try it with the boost from my Tech21 Fly Rig for the next gig. And If that doesn't work I could try the sansamp section.
    On a classic single channel fender as I understand it you don't have control over preamp gain, all you have is master volume, there's no gain control. By hitting the preamp harder you can get more hair or break up at lower volume. In a sense, you are adding a gain control.

    I'm sure that's very simplified and others will be able to speak more to the technicalities, but that's how I understand it.

    A drive pedal will add a little hair without using the preamp of the amp. But many like to mix it up, but they usually want more drive than I suspect you do.
    I used to gig a Tech 21 Fly Rig, and the boost functions broadly speaking the same way. I would say FlyRigs are more compressed in this regard.

  12. #36

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    You should just get a Rockett Blue Note. It can do clean boost or overdrive. It is very versatile, works well with many amps/guitars, and is a great "starter" into the world of boosts/overdrives.

    $200 new, but if you are willing to buy used, you can get them cheaper. I'll never NOT have one.

    Rockett Pedals Blue Note Overdrive Guitar Effects Pedal | Musician's Friend

  13. #37

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    Guavajelly,
    I am far from an expert or even much of an enthusiast with pedals but it's not just " more volume" but rather the tone of more volume (an amp being pushed closer to it's max) at a lower level of volume. You can hit the preamp harder and or blend in some synthetic OD all while running your guitar volume knob at a lower setting. The result being the amp sounding like it would if it were hitting 105db, while the actual spl is 90db.

  14. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by guavajelly View Post
    Hi folks, I have a really nice "Custom" Vibrolux Reverb that I love. The trouble is: I can't really open it up, it's just too loud for most gigs we play. But I like just a little hint of tube saturation when I dig in on my 330 – the P90s are wonderful dynamic in that regard. I mostly use my blues jr, which I can easily dial in due to the master – but it gets a little bit to trashy on some gigs, can't keep up with the leslie and drummer.
    For the last gig the sound guy brought a device called an attentuator for me. Sitting between the amp and speaker it reduces the power the speaker sees. The one he brought had 2 settings: 25 % and 10 %. The problem was that 25 % was a little bit too quiet. Maybe I should another model that allows for more variations in loudness? Any suggestions?
    Maybe a pedal could be a less pricy option but with my tube screamer clone even with the gain dialed out there's more drive than I want and I have the impression that plying dynamics suffer also – any suggestions for an overdrive pedal that's really subtle?
    Don’t overlook the overlooked Boss Blues Driver. The Waza craft upgrade version is worth it. The word “transparent” will be thrown about when it comes to discussing subtle overdrive. The Blues Driver is transparent to my ears. Another option the Xotic EP booster.

  15. #39

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    OP: The Kingsley Page might be what you're looking for.

    The guitarist in The New Mastersounds sounds like he's playing with more than a hint of gain. Some of it sounds like overdrive territory.

    The Page has a more subtle overdrive as it's primarily a boost, but depending on where you set your amp it can get you there.
    Any decent overdrive pedal with gain about 1/3 and amp volume up should be able to get close. Use your guitar vol to adjust for gain, on most pedals dialing it back will clean up the tone. Even a Fuzz Face with guitar vol dialed back can sound like a mild overdrive.

    For lower amp volumes turn gain up on pedal, but I find that most overdrive pedals get too boxy when gain is high and volume is low.

    Also, if you like TNM, you'll prob like these guys:

    Last edited by street; 10-03-2022 at 10:22 AM.

  16. #40

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    Over a year ago, somebody posted about a Zen clone hand made by one guy to order. I think the source was in the southwest, but I’m not sure. I can neither remember the name nor find the email I got from the builder. I looked into it because of the post, and found great reviews. After contacting the builder, I was ready to order one. But as I was (and still am) very happy with my Wampler, and I was notified the same week that the Superblock I’d had on backorder was coming in a few weeks, I decided to hold off on ordering the pedal.

    It was in a plain metal shell with nothing on it but control lettering, and it was about half the price of a current Zendrive. Does anyone remember or otherwise know about it?

    PS: I finally got the SB last month

  17. #41

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    I'm sure Kingsleys are great! I'd love to try one some day. Hard to do with the wait-list and cost. But they are made in Canada!

    The advantage with something like Rockett is you can buy on Amazon. I got a few pedals that way. One was defective. I had a new one in about 2 days with no shipping charges. I've also heard good things about 'The Archer', which they bill as Boost and Overdrive.

    I think Blue Note is what O.P.'s looking for though. You know... Kenny, Grant, Pat... the record label :-)

  18. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by ccroft
    I'm sure Kingsleys are great! I'd love to try one some day. Hard to do with the wait-list and cost. But they are made in Canada!

    The advantage with something like Rockett is you can buy on Amazon. I got a few pedals that way. One was defective. I had a new one in about 2 days with no shipping charges. I've also heard good things about 'The Archer', which they bill as Boost and Overdrive.

    I think Blue Note is what O.P.'s looking for though. You know... Kenny, Grant, Pat... the record label :-)

    Where did the OP mention Blue Note tone......must have missed that.
    He did mention he likes the guitar tone from The New Mastersounds and that is overdriven and sometimes goes into distortion territory. It's not a Blue Note tone at all.

    That said, OP mentioned he's looking for subtle overdrive and the Kingsley excels at that. But it's definitely not the only option out there.

  19. #43

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    You might try using a lower gain preamp tube in V1 (if you are using the Normal channel) or V2 (if using the Vibrato channel). Looking from the back, the tubes are called V1, V2, V3... across from right to left. The "Custom" Vibrasonic uses 12AX7 tubes in those V1 and V2 positions, but you may use lower gain tubes... 12AT7 is good for this.

    It may seem paradoxical that lower gain might sound like a hint of drive. Some say it cuts the front stages' harshness. It does result in a smoother slightly compressed sounding tone.

    Unity
    Gain 12AX7

    70% 5751
    60% 12AT7
    45% 12AY7
    41% 12AV7
    19% 12AU7

    The phase inverter in your amp is V6 using a 12AT7, you can replace that with a 12AX7 to promote breakup at lower volumes.

    Notice that you may simply trade the V2 and V6 tubes putting the 12AT7 in front of the Vibrato channel and putting the 12AX7 as phase inverter in front of the power tubes right now. You may well need to turn the amp volume higher... even higher if you use the -6dB input No. 2.

    For more about this, see here... Fender Amp Preamp Tube Layout and recommendations

  20. #44

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    If you normally use the reverb channel, just remove the V1 tube. This drives the second channel preamp a little harder. If the rectifier is a solid-state unit, replace it with a worn-out 5U4 tube. Lots of relevent info here: BF/SF Vibrolux Reverb | fenderguru.com

  21. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by street
    Where did the OP mention Blue Note tone......must have missed that.
    He did mention he likes the guitar tone from The New Mastersounds and that is overdriven and sometimes goes into distortion territory. It's not a Blue Note tone at all....
    So sorry man. I was trying to make a joke. You know, with the smiley and all :-) A couple of us were talking about a pedal by a company called 'J.Rockett' called 'Blue Note'.

    That pedal is great for the kind of breakup you'll find in some of Wes's and Kenny's records. Admittedly, they probably weren't on The Blue Note Label. Wes on Mellow Mood for EG is actually pretty hairy in his chording when they get going. Maybe it's more of a Van Gelder sound. Maybe the tweed fender or the Gemini cranked a bit to hang with Jimmy's Leslie. You can get that and much less if you like with the Blue Note.

  22. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by ccroft
    So sorry man. I was trying to make a joke. You know, with the smiley and all :-) A couple of us were talking about a pedal by a company called 'J.Rockett' called 'Blue Note'.

    That pedal is great for the kind of breakup you'll find in some of Wes's and Kenny's records. Admittedly, they probably weren't on The Blue Note Label. Wes on Mellow Mood for EG is actually pretty hairy in his chording when they get going. Maybe it's more of a Van Gelder sound. Maybe the tweed fender or the Gemini cranked a bit to hang with Jimmy's Leslie. You can get that and much less if you like with the Blue Note.
    Yes, after more thought, the Blue Note or MXR Timmy are the 2 I would recommend first. The JHS Morning Glory is good too... again, they'll all do the job, it's really about which pedal sounds best with which guitar/amp combo. But it would be hard to think of a situation where the Blue Note or Timmy wouldn't give what the OP wanted. I prefer the Blue Note by a little, it's just very easy to dial in. The Timmy (especially the MXR one) has a volume jump on the volume control right around where unity gain is... the BN is smoother and just easier to use. I actually own TWO of them I like it so much- one for home, one for the band.

    Just a hint of drive?-bluenote__56208-jpg

  23. #47

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    The DOD 250 is a fantastic "always on" overdrive. Very transparent and dynamic. A classic pedal worth a try.

  24. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by marcwhy
    If you visit The Gear Page, you'll find 1000 posts/arguments...
    That's very true. Arguments are mainly what you find there. As to the post topic any light OD pedal will probably do the trick.

  25. #49

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    At the other end of my box o'pedals is this wonderful device. Clean boost? Sure! Grit? Sure! Overdrive? Sure! Lots of distortion? Sure!
    Attached Images Attached Images Just a hint of drive?-koch-63-od-jpg 

  26. #50

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    Unless the OP just has to have boutique I’ll toss in another suggestion in for the lowly Boss Blues Driver. A fine pedal indeed.

    In Praise of the Humble, Underrated Boss Blues Driver | Reverb News