I think I may have been making a mistake forever.

[Jim Soloway]

I've been playing almost exclusively with a neck pickup pretty much all my life. I began playing with an ES125 so that's all I had and I just kept doing it as I got older. Even when I had two pickups, the neck alone just sounded better to me. But now that I have the Gretsch with no conventional tone controls, I've been forced to experiment to get control of the tone and what I've found is that using both pickups with the bridge rolled off almost completely actually gives me a much smoother tone. I assume that what's happening is that phase cancellation between the two pickups is killing off some of the high end detail, removing high end harshness without removing the mid-range sweetness. I've been recording with this guitar almost non-stop (except for the two days that we lost power to the hurricane) and recording doesn't lie: using both pickups in this combination sounds better than the neck pickup on it's own ... and it's not at all close. Now to learn whether it's this guitar or all guitars.

[ronjazz]

I'm with you 100%. My recent switch to Gretsch made me fall in love all over again with the electric guitar. I have a setting that sounds like Johnny Smith's d'Angelico, and another that sounds like Barney's CC pickup. Unbeatable, in my opinion.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I assume that what's happening is that phase cancellation between the two pickups is killing off some of the high end detail, removing high end harshness without removing the mid-range sweetness.

I discovered the utility of blending the pups a long time ago, when my guitars had separate vol and tone pots for each. Adding a bit of bridge to the neck on my 175 added some wood (admittedly fake), and using a bit of neck along with the bridge made the blues & rock tone just fat enough.

But every standard 2 pickup guitar I've ever had was wired in phase, and the only way to get them out of phase was to add switching (or hard wire it that way). Is your Gretsch wired out of phase or with a phase reversal switch for one or both?

[Tal_175]

I like the the middle position on my ES 175. Makes it less boomy, and more sweet and balanced.

For single coils, middle position can also be noise cancelling. After I upgraded the neck pickup of one of my tele's, the middle position became weak and out of phase. I used neodymium magnets to reverse the polarity of the bridge pickup (a two minute job), now the middle position is very full sounding and noise cancelling.

[Jim Soloway]

I discovered the utility of blending the pups a long time ago, when my guitars had separate vol and tone pots for each. Adding a bit of bridge to the neck on my 175 added some wood (admittedly fake), and using a bit of neck along with the bridge made the blues & rock tone just fat enough.

But every standard 2 pickup guitar I've ever had was wired in phase, and the only way to get them out of phase was to add switching (or hard wire it that way). Is your Gretsch wired out of phase or with a phase reversal switch for one or both?

Honestly I have no idea how it's wired and it was just an assumption on my part. Really, all I know for sure is that I loose some of the high end sizzle that can get harsh so easily when I'm set to the middle position with just a touch or bridge volume and almost full neck volume.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Honestly I have no idea how it's wired and it was just an assumption on my part. Really, all I know for sure is that I loose some of the high end sizzle that can get harsh so easily when I'm set to the middle position with just a touch or bridge volume and almost full neck volume.

I suspect that what's happening is because of the resistance of the second pickup. When both are selected (assuming it's wired the way most are), the resistance of both (between output and ground) is in parallel. The combined resistance of parallel loads is lower than either one. The actual value is the reciprocal of the sum of the reciprocals (yeah - it's a mouthful, but it's the only way to say it). If both are the same resistance, wiring them in parallel halves the individual resistance. So the combined parallel resistance of a pair of 5 kOhm pickups is 1/ (1/5000 + 1/5000), which is 2500.

The lower resistance to ground reduces the resonant peak of the pickups, making the sound smoother and less trebly. This is why 250k pots are recommended for single coil pickups and 500k pots for humbuckers. So when you add the bridge pickup to the circuit, you lower the total resistance between the signal path and ground just as you'd be doing if you substituted a 250k volume pot for the 500k pot(s) that probably came in the guitar. And as the total resistance of a pickup is lower than that of the pot, the effect on tone is significant. If you wire your pickups in series, the increased resistance will add top end to the signal.

And there are capacitors between the wiper of the tone pot(s) and ground. So if both pickups are active, the capacitance between signal path and ground is that of two capacitors in parallel. Unlike resistance, capacitance is added in parallel and is the reciprocal of the sum of reciprocals in series.

The trebly output of the bridge pickup because of its location closer to the end of the string is still a factor. The bridge pickup sounds like a bridge pickup because of position, but the output is mellowed a bit by the resistance change with both pickups in parallel. When you switch to the bridge pickup alone, its tone is even more trebly because the resistance to ground is only that of the bridge pickup.

[Woody Sound]

I suspect that what's happening is because of the resistance of the second pickup. When both are selected (assuming it's wired the way most are), the resistance of both (between output and ground) is in parallel. The combined resistance of parallel loads is lower than either one. The actual value is the reciprocal of the sum of the reciprocals (yeah - it's a mouthful, but it's the only way to say it). If both are the same resistance, wiring them in parallel halves the individual resistance. So the combined parallel resistance of a pair of 5 kOhm pickups is 1/ (1/5000 + 1/5000), which is 2500.

The lower resistance to ground reduces the resonant peak of the pickups, making the sound smoother and less trebly. This is why 250k pots are recommended for single coil pickups and 500k pots for humbuckers. So when you add the bridge pickup to the circuit, you lower the total resistance between the signal path and ground just as you'd be doing if you substituted a 250k volume pot for the 500k pot(s) that probably came in the guitar. And as the total resistance of a pickup is lower than that of the pot, the effect on tone is significant. If you wire your pickups in series, the increased resistance will add top end to the signal.

And there are capacitors between the wiper of the tone pot(s) and ground. So if both pickups are active, the capacitance between signal path and ground is that of two capacitors in parallel. Unlike resistance, capacitance is added in parallel and is the reciprocal of the sum of reciprocals in series.

The trebly output of the bridge pickup because of its location closer to the end of the string is still a factor. The bridge pickup sounds like a bridge pickup because of position, but the output is mellowed a bit by the resistance change with both pickups in parallel. When you switch to the bridge pickup alone, its tone is even more trebly because the resistance to ground is only that of the bridge pickup.

Man, how on earth do you know this stuff!?

[Sam Sherry]

I've been playing almost exclusively with a neck pickup pretty much all my life. . . . Even when I had two pickups, the neck alone just sounded better to me. But now . . . what I've found is that using both pickups with the bridge rolled off almost completely actually gives me a much smoother tone. . . using both pickups in this combination sounds better than the neck pickup on it's own ... and it's not at all close.

No need to be hard on yourself, maestro. You're allowed to change your mind and even back again.

Just imagine your hands on the Les Paul Signature. Twelve different clean tones at your fingertips.
If you're built like me you will find at least a few that rock your socks (and some that you leave for other people's socks).

[omphalopsychos]

Jim, you are onto something for sure. One of my favorite purely electric jazz tones is Bill Jenning's. He played a Gretsch archtop with dynasonic pickups, which have the ability to be bright or smooth. In trying to emulate his tone, I have found that the best way to achieve it (and I think the way he did it) is to use both pickups with the tone and or volume rolled off of the treble pickup. This enables me to get a warm tone with a very soft attack. Bill's attack almost sounds like a bit of a "wah". A lot of it has to do with his technique (pick close to the bridge and push on the strings to get something like a classical rest stroke), but I'm pretty convinced that using both pickups the way your are doing how he was getting the sound. I've watched Duke Robillard, who picked up a LOT from Bill, playing Bill Jennings transcriptions and in the videos he is using the same pickup configuration.

Duke switches to neck for the solos but looks like he's on the middle on the head. Notice how well it cuts without being harsh at all.

[Jimmy blue note]

You can also tame or accentuate the effect of the bridge A LOT by working with the pickup height. If the bridge is like the spice, the pickup height is like the type of pepper you're using. Matching or accentuating the frequency response of the bridge through PU height lets you kick in sounds in a huge palette of sounds. Yeah that middle PU position is an effects box in itself!

[lammie200]

Of my guitars that have two pickups there is only one that I don't combine them. That is a semi-hollow Tele partscaster. ES-390 both. Jazzmaster partscaster both. Strat partscaster neck & middle. I guess that I don't combine the bridge on that one. So out of my 11, or so, guitars the bridge pickups on two of them are dummies.

[Alter]

I 've tried so many times to like the other pickups... .. no luck. It's like my voice on the guitar is the neck pickup, no matter the instrument. Lots of good tones on the other ones of course, but it's like someone else is playing..

[lammie200]

I think if you have separate volume and tone controls you can many times combine neck and bridge pickups to get a good sound. Of course a lot will depend on the pickups. Tele and Strat bridge pickups are hard for me to utilize. Humbuckers can often times work for me.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Man, how on earth do you know this stuff!?

a misspent youth!

[Jimmy Smith]

I put 2 pickups in the neck slot and run them in series. Then I use a phase switch to select either pickup and a spin a split to dial how much of the other pickup is in series. More neck pickup variety, more tones, fatter, and more smoky low mids without that much reduced treble.

[Hammertone]

Wiring for a 2-pickup guitar? This one, documented by Hideous Kamamoto. It is the silver key that will open the red door:

[whiskey02]

Thanks for the info, I'll have to explore this a bit. My LP QUACKS in the middle position; I've read that the RnR and blues guys love this, so I'm assuming that OD and some crunchy gain factors into it. Played clean as I do, I've not found a balance to make me happy. Mainly I'm trying to find a sound in the middle position where the volume is lower than neck pup alone for comping. Would be great to have a usable contrasting voice for single notes too.

I discovered the utility of blending the pups a long time ago, when my guitars had separate vol and tone pots for each. Adding a bit of bridge to the neck on my 175 added some wood (admittedly fake), and using a bit of neck along with the bridge made the blues & rock tone just fat enough.

But every standard 2 pickup guitar I've ever had was wired in phase, and the only way to get them out of phase was to add switching (or hard wire it that way). Is your Gretsch wired out of phase or with a phase reversal switch for one or both?

You can also tame or accentuate the effect of the bridge A LOT by working with the pickup height. If the bridge is like the spice, the pickup height is like the type of pepper you're using. Matching or accentuating the frequency response of the bridge through PU height lets you kick in sounds in a huge palette of sounds. Yeah that middle PU position is an effects box in itself!

[Sam Sherry]

Wiring for a 2-pickup guitar? This one, documented by Hideous Kamamoto. It is the silver key that will open the red door:

The thing about the 'blend' control is that you never get two pickups 'full out' on their respective volume pots. When it's set to the "middle" position is pickup is seeing half the pot-load -- for example, 250k Ohms on a 500k linear pot. In contrast, with the 'regular' V V T T setup the middle position can provide both pickups with no load, hence a brighter, clearer sound.

For some people the loading and resulting tone roll-off built into the blend pot is a feature. For others it's a bug. For a few geeks, it's a challenge: Set up a high-pass that compensates for your rig and ear. No matter what it is a thing.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

The thing about the 'blend' control is that you never get two pickups 'full out' on their respective volume pots. When it's set to the "middle" position is pickup is seeing half the pot-load -- for example, 250k Ohms on a 500k linear pot. In contrast, with the 'regular' V V T T setup the middle position can provide both pickups with no load, hence a brighter, clearer sound.

For some people the loading and resulting tone roll-off built into the blend pot is a feature. For others it's a bug. For a few geeks, it's a challenge: Set up a high-pass that compensates for your rig and ear. No matter what it is a thing.

The alternative to choosing one and living with it is to use push-pull or push-push switched pots. The switches are DPDT, and you can substitute one for each and every pot on the instrument. So you can use one to select between series and parallel pickup outputs, another to switch between in and out of phase for a pair of pickups, a third for coil tapping or splitting a humbucker, and a fourth to split or tap a second ‘bucker. You can also use one to insert a resistor or capacitor or both between the output and ground.

I always preferred push-push because the knob stays the same distance above the top in either position. But I finally realized after forgetting how it was set too many times on stage that a push-pull pot gives a clear indication of setting (in or out).

You can have the full spectrum of output choices for tonal selection from any guitar. You can also add minitoggles to change resistance and capacitance between the output and ground, for even wider choice.

There’s also a “no load” pot in which the sweep of the rotor goes past one end of the winding. So there’s no load in the circuit when it’s fully turned in that direction. This solves the tonal issue of always having both pots in the signal path.

[rpjazzguitar]

Wiring for a 2-pickup guitar? This one, documented by Hideous Kamamoto. It is the silver key that will open the red door:

Hideo Kamimoto.

A brilliant luthier and a gentleman.

[rpjazzguitar]

I have a coil split switch on my main guitar.

If I use it, I may forget that the coils are split and start fiddling with other knobs to get my usual tone back.

Having a guitar with a lot of switching options on a gig doesn't appeal. Maybe in the studio.

On my Gibsons, I rewired to get Master Volume and Master Tone. I'd leave the other two knobs as individual volumes but never touch them.
If someone wanted to, they could select both pickups and blend them, but I didn't.

On my Strat copy the bridge HB failed. I just disconnected it. That position of the selector switch is now Off. So, if it gets moved there by accident I can tell right away -- no sound. I haven't had that problem with the middle position.

I guess other people are more successful with multiple switch management.

[Hammertone]

Hideo Kamimoto. A brilliant luthier and a gentleman.

Indeed. I've been making that dumb joke since 1975, when his book came out. Today, almost fifty years later, I continue to stand on his very broad shoulders.

[Hammertone]

The thing about the 'blend' control is that you never get two pickups 'full out' on their respective volume pots. When it's set to the "middle" position is pickup is seeing half the pot-load -- for example, 250k Ohms on a 500k linear pot. In contrast, with the 'regular' V V T T setup the middle position can provide both pickups with no load, hence a brighter, clearer sound.
For some people the loading and resulting tone roll-off built into the blend pot is a feature. For others it's a bug. For a few geeks, it's a challenge: Set up a high-pass that compensates for your rig and ear. No matter what it is a thing.

Yes, and I thought that a somewhat simplistic solution was to have the standby position of the three-way switch bypass the pan pot, and use push-pull or stacked pots for the two tone controls so that they could also work as individual volume pots, with a push-pull pot on the master volume if necessary to sort out the circuit. Problematic for an ES-3xx guitar body because of its limited depth. I never bothered to draw it up, look into no-load pots, or other solutions that would not require additional controls.
I had two ES-340 guitar over the years, and found that the ability to adjust the blend between the two pickups, especially in the out-of-phase setting, offered all sorts of otherwise unavailable, great sounds.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Having a guitar with a lot of switching options on a gig doesn't appeal. Maybe in the studio…I guess other people are more successful with multiple switch management.

For years, I just brought an archtop and a solid body to gigs like weddings that meant rock, pop, swing etc. But in the late ‘80s, I got the bug for one guitar to do it all. I had a plain vanilla Tele into which I put a pair of Duncan Hot Rails. I added push-push pots and drilled the control plate to take a DPDT minitoggle on either side of the middle pot. I put the volume pot at the end and turned that plate 180 degrees for easier volume swells. So I had a very versatile guitar that handled 99% of my gigs. Remembering what did what wasn’t a big problem, although I did forget where I’d last set the push switches more than a few times.

By the early’90s, I ordered a Carvin 7 from their original custom shop with twin HBs, master vol & tone, and switching for coil tap etc. By then, the wedding and bar mitzvah circuit had shrunk from the pressure of DJs and most gigs were monolithic - so I could usually set it and forget it. And I didn’t bother with switched pots. The neck HB was great for jazz, and both pickups together in parallel and in phase handled almost all pop and commercial dates. Along with the tone pot, the toggles got me mighty close to a classic Strat position 2 or 4.

I just bought a push-pull pot to hook up the coil split on the Benedetto B7 in my Ibanez archtop. When I first installed it, I used the wrong wiring diagram (which came with it) and accidentally set it up as a SC. It sounds pretty funky that way, and I’ll use it on some blues and fusion tunes.

[Hammertone]

I like to keep it simple for live playing, although I will be adding a tone control to my latest folly.