The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26
    No speaker output. Definitely wish it did.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
    ...But I really think quilter is onto something special that isn’t digital modeling.
    I whole-heartedly agree! I was Fender and Mesa since 1971. I got an Aviator about 5 years ago. About 2 years later I jumped to TB202 in BlockDock 12, and then added a BD10. For me at least, it has far superior tone controls than the older Quilter. But it's the response and 'feel' of the amp that rocks my world. That magic is in the Limiter VS Gain settings I think. I'm usually in the same ballpark as you with those.

    At first I was sorta wussy with the limiter: "I'm a great guitarist. Why would I want to limit any part of my playing?" But it's actually quite subtle and doesn't work exactly like a studio type limiter. In keeping with Pat's love of fly-speak, he says it works more like a hand on the throttle that doesn't do anything until things get a little hot, and then it's still not like a hard limit. Maybe more like a governor?

    One thing to remember when comparing this to a TMTwin: the actual twin is a solid state rectifier. Not 'squishy' in the slightest. I like a bit of squishy. I like being able to dial in the right amount at any volume. And that's Quilter territory.

    Guess I'm nothing more than a fanboy.... :-(

  4. #28

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    Is a Superblock US like an Aviator Cub without a speaker? Controls and voices appear similar. Based on all the positive feedback I’m considering the Superblock US.

  5. #29
    It’s the same except it’s 25w instead of 50w. Depending on your use case that might be plenty. My friend who has one says it’s plenty for rehearsals with a loud drummer. He plays it through a 1x12 cab with an eminence ga sc64, which is a pretty efficient speaker.

  6. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
    It’s the same except it’s 25w instead of 50w. Depending on your use case that might be plenty. My friend who has one says it’s plenty for rehearsals with a loud drummer. He plays it through a 1x12 cab with an eminence ga sc64, which is a pretty efficient speaker.
    A doubling of output power only amounts to a 3 dB increase in SPL from the same speaker. So the difference between a real, measurable 25 and 50 watts is negligible using the same power supply, which I believe is the case with Quilter. I’d be surprised if they used a beefier internal supply in the Cub than the external PS-24 that powers the SB and many other Quilters. A PS with more reserve would enable a bit more headroom for transients, which could be noticeable if you’re playing near the amp’s limit.

    I used my new SBUS for my Thursday night trio show this week. Driving the Toob 10, it was far more powerful than I needed in an almost full club with 60 seats in the main room, 20 or so at tables in the open dining area next to the stage, and a dozen seats at the bar. For comparison, I tried my Microblock there earlier this year driving the speaker in the CS PR, and it was about the same. The MB uses the same PS and is rated by Quilter at 45 watts.

  7. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
    A doubling of output power only amounts to a 3 dB increase in SPL from the same speaker. So the difference between a real, measurable 25 and 50 watts is negligible using the same power supply, which I believe is the case with Quilter. I’d be surprised if they used a beefier internal supply in the Cub than the external PS-24 that powers the SB and many other Quilters. A PS with more reserve would enable a bit more headroom for transients, which could be noticeable if you’re playing near the amp’s limit.

    I used my new SBUS for my Thursday night trio show this week. Driving the Toob 10, it was far more powerful than I needed in an almost full club with 60 seats in the main room, 20 or so at tables in the open dining area next to the stage, and a dozen seats at the bar. For comparison, I tried my Microblock there earlier this year driving the speaker in the CS PR, and it was about the same. The MB uses the same PS and is rated by Quilter at 45 watts.
    Just want to say thank you for sharing your technical knowledge on this forum. It’s always great to read your posts and your expertise always uplevels our discussions.

  8. #32

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    Omph,

    While my preferred amplified jazz sound is the Polytone/Henriksen sound, I also like the Fender sound and still have a Fender in the arsenal (a 1964 Princeton). I tried a couple of the reissue Fenders and found that they did not sound like the originals. I did demo a couple of the Tonemasters and found that they too did not sound like the originals, nor the reissues. I much preferred the Twin Tonemaster to the Deluxe Tonemaster, but a 33 pound amp is a deal killer for me these days.

    I spent some time with the Quilter amp you have awhile back and thought it to be too bright, but I would bet that with the Tone Tubby speaker, I would like it. It sounds like you have your solid state amp rig dialed in. That said, give the Tonemaster Twin a try. It might be the perfect match for your carved Gibson archtops. Or if weight is not a bother, get a vintage Blackface Twin with some nice vintage speakers.

  9. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
    A doubling of output power only amounts to a 3 dB increase in SPL from the same speaker.
    Yes indeed. As Never... has previously pointed out, amp makers have almost free reins when announcing the power of an amp. Quilter's 45W in the Microblock/Interblock family and 25W "Tube equivalent" for the Supeblock may well push out more or less the same, but the question is really about clean headroom, eq and other properties. I was never too happy about Interblock but consider the Superblock next to ideal in many respects. Aviator Cub specs say that the max power consumption is 100W. External 24V, 3A power units typically promise 70-72W.

    Needless to point out that the "same speaker" assumption plays a major role here. 12" speakers typically range from 96 to 101 dB, i.e. the effect of doubling the input may be achievable through a speaker change. But the perceived loudness of a speaker is subjective and depends on how the ups and downs in its response curve match the frequencies where the human ear is at its most sensitive. My experience, for instance, is that a 12" Jensen Blackbird AlNiCo sounds louder than the 12" Tornado, despite a slighly lower sensitivity rating. I'm not audiophile enough to know how much individual differences and day-to-day variation influence the perception, and whether "hearing's sweet spot" moves with age.

    Finally, on speaker break-in. I never hear it as my cabs tend to leave home as soon as ready and tested. Some pepole consider it humbug, others report sudden awakening, almost like coming to faith. My expert friends at Jensen say 30 hours is what it takes.

  10. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gitterbug
    External 24V, 3A power units typically promise 70-72W.
    I think the problem in relating that to amplifier power output is that the power supply is independent of the amplification stages. A switched mode power supply is typically 60 to 75% efficient, with the bulk of the lost energy going to heat. So a PS that uses 3A at 24V is taking in 75 watts. But at best, it can only supply 3/4 of that to the amplifier itself and most SMPSs are less than 75% efficient. That means that the PS is delivering a maximum of about 55 watts and generating about 20 watts of heat energy in the process.

    A class D amp is between 85 and 95% efficient, so that 25W class D amp is drawing 32 watts at most from the power supply at its rated output. But the "available" 20+ extra watts of electrical power could be transformed into no more than about 15 to 18 watts of audio output power. So it could only add between 1 and 2 dB to the SPL from the same speaker even if it were all available instantaneously for peaks (which it is not). Unlike traditional power supplies in audio amplification, the SMPS has no serious capacitance to store and release that energy - so it's not available as it would be in a linear PS with storage capacitance.

  11. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
    The tone master deluxe reverb also doesn’t have a mid knob so it’s substantially less flexible tonally.
    Oh wow, I didn't know that. I wonder why they did that?

  12. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Sound
    Oh wow, I didn't know that. I wonder why they did that?
    I guess to be closer to the original?

    https://reverb.com/news/a-guide-to-b...ra-fender-amps

    Plenty of Fender amps, the Deluxe included, didn't have a mid knob.

    To be honest, if the Tonemaster amps are trully clones of the original Fenders, the mid knob is quite useless anyway. It's one of the most common mods on Fender amps, making the mid knob actually usable

  13. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
    No speaker output. Definitely wish it did.
    Unless I'm missing it, it looks like the TMD also does not have a speaker out.