Do we nitpick too much about gear?

[Doctor Jeff]

This is kind of a philosophical question here.

There are so many discussions about guitars that focus on scale length, neck width, fret size, etc.

But...if someone gave you a great, expensive guitar that was 1/16" wider at the nut than you preferred, or fretboard a little too flat, etc., etc., don't you think you'd adjust?

Of course the pros have their own preferences and obsessions. That leads some of them into designing their own guitars from specs. But OTOH, most pros have played MANY types of guitars during their careers. Maybe they ended up with one which fits them like an old shoe, and they stick with it. But they were able to make great music out of other guitars.

One thinks of Clapton playing various Gibsons then moving on to Fender, McLaughlin playing just about every type of guitar out there, Garcia playing an SG then Strat then his own Doug Irwin guitars, Zappa playing an ES-5 Switchmaster then SG then a Les Paul then a Strat, etc.

I like my ES-175, but sometimes I play a nylon string with a fat neck or a Tele with a slender neck. It takes about 5" to adjust one's playing to fit the new guitar. (I think if you start off playing classical then every other guitar has a neck like a pencil in comparison.)

[burchyk]

I envy people who are able to buy one decent instrument and focus on making music. My dad had one acoustic for most of his life and he adored it. Sounds like a parable about the general trend in the society

[tbeltrans]

Well, there is the "paradox of choice".

If there was only one instrument available to you that you could afford (which was often the case for many of us who started playing back in the 60s or 70s), we simply adjusted and made whatever that guitar was, work for us. However, I do recall wishing for a bit wider neck so my fingers wouldn't deaden the strings next to the one I was fretting, or a bit shorter scale for those chords with longer stretches, or maybe a smaller body so my shoulder didn't ache after playing too long. So by playing that guitar, maybe we had a better idea of what might work better for us, even if it wasn't available to us at the time. But at least we settled on the one we had, knowing that was pretty much it for us.

Then comes the time in which we have more money (or for those daring souls, more credit) and accessibility to a much wider array of instruments to choose from. The problem then becomes one of which is the best instrument for us. We make our best effort to pick the "right" one, but are always wondering if just maybe that other one would have been better, and so the "hunt" goes on.

That is the paradox of choice - we are less satisfied with what we have than we were with only one choice, because there are certainly more suitable guitars than the ones we tried. We see them, we read about them in magazines and in forums, and we just know there is better. We just haven't encountered it yet, but we will on another forum, web site, guitar shop and we never stop looking so we can just focus on the music. The flaws (real or imagined) in the guitar we have are always there along with the belief that there is a better guitar somewhere out there for us if we just keep looking.

Tony

[Skip Ellis]

To answer the OP: YES! For those of us who started early (1960 for me), we played the strings and instruments that were available and were perfectly happy. I think the 'nit pickers' spearheaded by collectors like George Gruhn and the interweb are to be blamed. Personally, I don't care how wide a neck is, whether my Tele pickguard has 5 screws or 8, what year my pickup was wound, what brand of tubes were in my amp (back when I used tubes), or whether the capacitor looked like a bumblebee or not. We (myself included) would be much better players if we spent our time playing instead of looking at guitar forums. We worry about so many things that make absolutely no difference to the audience - many of those things ego driven so we look cool to other musicians. IMHO we should be playing what the audience is paying us to play instead of trying to impress any musicians who happen to be in said audience.

[John A.]

This is kind of a philosophical question here.

There are so many discussions about guitars that focus on scale length, neck width, fret size, etc.

But...if someone gave you a great, expensive guitar that was 1/16" wider at the nut than you preferred, or fretboard a little too flat, etc., etc., don't you think you'd adjust?

For me, it depends on the dimension/attribute. I honestly have trouble playing guitars with skinny nuts. I know this from the experience of having had a couple, getting ones with wider nuts, and eventually figuring out that the wider nut was actually the reason I found them easier to play. So, "here, have this lovely 1967 Gibson with a 1-9/16" nut" would be kind of an awkward moment. But I'd be able to adapt to pretty much anything else. If it were truly a situation where I truly had to play only that lovely 1967 Gibson, yes, I could play music on it. But I'd play certain music worse and that would annoy me. There are worse problems to have.

Of course the pros have their own preferences and obsessions. That leads some of them into designing their own guitars from specs. But OTOH, most pros have played MANY types of guitars during their careers. Maybe they ended up with one which fits them like an old shoe, and they stick with it. But they were able to make great music out of other guitars.

I think for most people there's a process of figuring oneself out as a player, and figuring out what does and does not fit one's body, hands, ears, playing style, etc. Some people are pickier than others, as with all contexts.

One thinks of Clapton playing various Gibsons then moving on to Fender, McLaughlin playing just about every type of guitar out there, Garcia playing an SG then Strat then his own Doug Irwin guitars, Zappa playing an ES-5 Switchmaster then SG then a Les Paul then a Strat, etc.

I think that's more about seeking change for it's own sake or chasing a sound or feel than it was about being adaptable to any tool. Some people do that more than others, e.g., Willie Nelson vs Jack Zucker (sorry Jack, but you have to admit you've played more guitars than Willie Nelson).

I like my ES-175, but sometimes I play a nylon string with a fat neck or a Tele with a slender neck. It takes about 5" to adjust one's playing to fit the new guitar. (I think if you start off playing classical then every other guitar has a neck like a pencil in comparison.)

The necks on mine are all different in one way or another, but I don't have any trouble switching between them (even my GJ guitar, which is wildly different from the others).

All that said, I view having multiple guitars as kind of an indulgence and a luxury, not a need. For the kind of music I play, I'd be fine with one electric guitar and maybe one acoustic (I have 3 and 2, respectively). So for me the "philosophical" questions swirl more around need vs want than they do around adaptability.

[Woody Sound]

No.

[stylo]

But...if someone gave you a great, expensive guitar that was 1/16" wider at the nut than you preferred, or fretboard a little too flat, etc., etc., don't you think you'd adjust?

If you are the "average guitar player" - average handsize, average body size, average injury history, etc - then yes, probably you would adjust.

Many of us are not the average. Me personally, I am a short woman with small hands. I don't think there's any nobility in straining away at a baseball bat of a guitar neck. It's an injury risk! Not to mention the deleterious effect on actually learning the instrument. (At this point it's conventional wisdom that a beginner's guitar must be set up properly, and poorly-set-up guitars with high action threaten to put a beginner off the instrument forever.)

There was a thread a while back of a woman jazz guitarist with prior injuries who was looking for a guitar with very small nut width.

If it interests you, the same is true with the piano. : About - PIANISTS FOR ALTERNATIVELY SIZED KEYBOARDS (paskpiano.org)

Much of the literature linking hand size with piano playing is in the field of performing arts medicine, with the focus on hand size as a possible risk factor in piano-related pain and injury. Many epidemiological studies published during the 1980’s and 1990’s covered a mix of instrumentalists rather than just pianists. Likely causes of pain or injury were identified as being technique, time and intensity of practice, posture and genetically based factors. Females were found to be disproportionately affected and keyboard players among those most at risk, with females being affected approximately 50% more than males. Some studies have found that 70-80% of female pianists are affected by playing-related pain or injury at some stage during their lives.
Yoshimura et al. (2006) investigated the relationships between pain and several independent playing-related and anthropometric variables among college students, and established a statistically significant relationship between piano-related pain and a general ‘size/strength/speed’ risk factor. Hand size and in particular, the 3-4 digit span, were encompassed within this risk factor. The results of a similar study (Yoshimura et al., 2008) involving piano teachers confirmed the link between hand size/strength and pain. Bruno et al. (2008) conducted a case-controlled survey of musculoskeletal disorders among piano students in Italy. Multivariate analysis found a statistically significant correlation between disorders of the upper limbs and hand size.

That said, adaptation is still possible, within limits - but those of us on the small end of the spectrum genuinely don't have a lot of options on the market. (E.g. If my ideal nut width is 38mm, 42mm may be outside the 'adaptation range' and lead me to a greater injury risk over time - and that's the smallest nut width sold by many brands.)

[pingu]

yes , get the guitar that is
comfortable for you the set it up
to make a good true clean sound

Comfort is the MOST important thing

if it’s comfortable , you will play it

[Christian Miller]

Yes people nitpick too much about gear

[rpjazzguitar]

A couple of thoughts:

1. There are discussions about things which either I can't hear or don't make sense to me. Fancy power cables fall into this category for me. Expensive signal cables too -- I intentionally add capacitance with the tone control, so why would I care? This is cork sniffing to me.

2. At the other extreme is ergonomics. If you're going to live with an instrument, hours every day, being comfortable is essential. I have loved, briefly, and ultimately rejected a guitar over neck radius. I felt like I was fighting with my Comins GCS-1 until a luthier adjusted the truss rod.
I got annoyed with a Godin because the lower horn (near the neck) is short on those guitars and it kept slipping off my leg. I could go on. But, the point is, if somebody is searching for comfort, I don't see that as a nitpick.

3. Sound is a tough one. A lot of it is in your hands -- and if you're working on that, it's no nitpick IMO. If you've dissected the problem to death and arrived at a rig that sounds great, I'm not going to call that a nitpick. Rather, that's the work. If you find yourself unhappy with your usual sound, to me that's part of being a player. Your goal is a moving target. It's not a nitpick to feel like you need a change. That is, unless you're Wes and you've got the perfect tone (and yes, I'm aware that he didn't think that and reportedly tried different amps as a result).

4. When an intermediate player is focused on gear like an elite recording engineer, I wonder about it being a distraction from the harder work of progressing as a player. But, I have enough gear-head in me to feel some compassion. The gear stuff is fun too.

And, all that said, my most extreme playing friend -- who talks about amp circuit model numbers, and brings a different complement of pedals to every session, and one of every classic guitar model etc etc etc -- sounds fantastic on every bit of it, provoking intense envy. I even bought a guitar to match his (the one with the 9.5 radius I eventually rejected). He's he's a nit picker, in a way, but when he's done, those nits are professional picked.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

But...if someone gave you a great, expensive guitar that was 1/16" wider at the nut than you preferred, or fretboard a little too flat, etc., etc., don't you think you'd adjust?

I think too many pick the wrong nits. The numbers don't matter to me. But if something doesn't feel right when you pick it up, it probably never will - and if it feels great, it is great.

My current stock of working guitars (all 7s) includes an Epi LP (24 3/4" scale & 1 13/16" nut), a Tele 7 (25"& 2"), an Ibanez AF207 (24 3/4" & 2 1/16") and an Eastman 810CE7 (25" & 2 1/8"). All neck profiles, radii etc are different but they all feel great to me. I jump from one to another regularly without a second thought. What matters is how it feels.

Then comes sound. If it feels great but sounds less than great, I don't want it. If it sounds great but feels less than great, I used to think that I could learn to like it because it sounds so good. But I know better than that now, after falling into that trap too many times. I also don't buy shoes that are uncomfortable in the expectation that they'll "break in".

[Doctor Jeff]

If you are the "average guitar player" - average handsize, average body size, average injury history, etc - then yes, probably you would adjust.

Many of us are not the average. Me personally, I am a short woman with small hands. I don't think there's any nobility in straining away at a baseball bat of a guitar neck. It's an injury risk! Not to mention the deleterious effect on actually learning the instrument. (At this point it's conventional wisdom that a beginner's guitar must be set up properly, and poorly-set-up guitars with high action threaten to put a beginner off the instrument forever.)

Yes I realize there are outliers. I am pretty average in every way (although I have been having a hard time finding pants that fit me right lately, but let's not digress). Some people really need the ergonomics of a large guitar or a small guitar to even play productively at all. And some people have back problems, and need a lighter guitar, etc.

I tend to migrate toward similar necks on my Gibsons and Peerless and Godin. I didn't do it consciously.

I think too many pick the wrong nits. The numbers don't matter to me. But if something doesn't feel right when you pick it up, it probably never will - and if it feels great, it is great.

My current stock of working guitars (all 7s) includes an Epi LP (24 3/4" scale & 1 13/16" nut), a Tele 7 (25"& 2"), an Ibanez AF207 (24 3/4" & 2 1/16") and an Eastman 810CE7 (25" & 2 1/8"). All neck profiles, radii etc are different but they all feel great to me. I jump from one to another regularly without a second thought. What matters is how it feels.

Then comes sound. If it feels great but sounds less than great, I don't want it. If it sounds great but feels less than great, I used to think that I could learn to like it because it sounds so good. But I know better than that now, after falling into that trap too many times. I also don't buy shoes that are uncomfortable in the expectation that they'll "break in".

That old "don't worry, they'll break in" is one of the biggest lies told by shoe salesmen back when shoe stores actually existed. Of course my mom always agreed with the salesman, so we walked out of JC Penney with some hard-as-iron shoes guaranteed to create blisters the first time I wore them more than an hour. I probably dreaded getting new shoes as much as going to the dentist!

Slight digression--back when Rockports first came out, I was amazed you could buy a shoe that fit perfectly and was "broken in" from the moment you bought it. So I have bought a lot of Rockports over the years, as well as Keens and Merrills and Eccos for more dressy occasions.

I guess I can't argue with the "feels right" idea. I do the same thing. I agree with your point that one CAN go from different necks and scales without too much trouble if they don't think about it too much.

[lammie200]

I was educated in and make my living designing in some form or another. I nitpick about the form and feel of the spoons in our kitchen drawer.

[Gilpy]

If people want to discuss gear endlessly in excruciating detail, well, no harm done.
But I don’t often find it useful.

[citizenk74]

Talking with other enthusiasts about relative minutiae is, or can be, fun and educational. Exchanging data and experiences is vital to progress. I will continue to obsess, thank you.

[Litterick]

On another guitar forum – where men talk of their constant buying, selling, customising, upgrading, trading – one member confessed that he seldom plays his guitars. This candour prompted several others to reveal that playing was not longer their passion. It seems that, among these men, nitpicking about guitars has become a hobby in itself.

[Peter C]

1/16" nut width difference? In spite of having not-small fingers, probably not a biggie as I adapt pretty quickly from a 24.75" scale to a 25.5" and will pick up a bass and be happily jamming within seconds, so...

I do find the flat fingerboard of classical guitars uncomfortable after a while and thumb-over-top is a challenge.

People count pickguard screws? Really?

Anyway yeah, too much talk about such things seems like an excuse for not playing/pushing yourself as a musician.

PS you should see the dreadnought (not mine) I often jam on in summer: an adapted twelve string whose fretboard and strings are seriously into social distancing. Sounds ok, though.

[mr. beaumont]

Before I joined internet forums, guitars were of one of two categories for me: "I like it," or "I don't. "

I liked and still like all different types of guitars, no matter the specifications.

[Bluedawg]

Nit picking is part of the fun.


At one extreme it can be a substitute for lack of talent.

Or maybe it's easier than grinding your way to a reasonable level of competency.

Then again, maybe you just don't have the time to put in the work but digging into the nits and details is a way to keep your hands and mind in the game.

Or maybe you just enjoy the tools more than the art.


At the other extreme, maybe a good player can find that little edge and inspiration from their guitar that helps make them a great player.

[blille]

Yes.

[JohanAbrandt]

On another guitar forum – where men talk of their constant buying, selling, customising, upgrading, trading – one member confessed that he seldom plays his guitars. This candour prompted several others to reveal that playing was not longer their passion. It seems that, among these men, nitpicking about guitars has become a hobby in itself.

Agreed, I think of it as 2 different, but related, hobbies.

[Gitterbug]

YES, but isn't this the forum for just that?

[guavajelly]

It is.
Anyway I (born 1967) remember when you wanted a guitar, say a telecaster, you could choose between a couple of colors. And you'd buy a telecaster. Today you choose between 55 variants with all kinds of variety. I imagine a beginner has a hard time deciding which one is for him and for local stores it is impossible to offer all kinds of variants.

[rpjazzguitar]

It is.
Anyway I (born 1967) remember when you wanted a guitar, say a telecaster, you could choose between a couple of colors. And you'd buy a telecaster. Today you choose between 55 variants with all kinds of variety. I imagine a beginner has a hard time deciding which one is for him and for local stores it is impossible to offer all kinds of variants.

Not just beginners. If you want a Tele, Strat, LP, 335 or some other types, the choices are overwhelming.

[Litterick]

Choice but no variety: you can select from the Gibson or Fender models introduced in the 1950s, or copies of them by other manufacturers.