The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    One of the rumors I picked up when I bought my 88 L4 CES is that they were using pressed solid spruce for the L4 tops back in the 80s rather than carved solid spruce tops.

    I have no idea if that's true or not.

    I remember playing some Fender archtops that were designed by D'Aquisto way back in the 90s. I was told the had pressed tops and they sounded pretty sweet from what I remember. They still sell for reasonable prices for a US made archtop from a major brand. Not that Fender is known for archtops.

    Anyone know if the 80s L4 CES guitars were pressed or carved?

    Either way my L4 CES is a sweet guitar. It does sound a little different than my L5 CES, but in a blind test I doubt I could tell the difference.

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  3. #27

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    I think I hear a very similar mid range in L4's and L5's. They sound more modern than laminates IMO, they have a pronounced but sustaining and compressed mid range.
    Compared to laminates, L4's and L5's sound closer to semi-hollows in the mid-range to my ears.

    Here is a good comparison between a ES 175 and an L4CES:

  4. #28

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    I see where the L4-CES has the same 24.75" scale length as a 175, but do they share the same neck profile? I really like the 175 soft / rounded C-profile (coming in at about 1.00” at the 12th). I have heard that the L4 has a faster (thinner) neck. As there is zero chance playing one a store within 100 a mile radius my only shot would be an on-line purchase.

  5. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175
    I think I hear a very similar mid range in L4's and L5's. They sound more modern than laminates IMO, they have a pronounced but sustaining and compressed mid range.
    Compared to laminates, L4's and L5's sound closer to semi-hollows in the mid-range to my ears.

    Here is a good comparison between a ES 175 and an L4CES:

    That comparison is very nice. His playing is always great imho.

    The 175 sounds a little muffled to me, but in a wonderful way.

    The L4 sounds a lot like Wes Montgomery's L5 to my ears. If you told me it was an L5 I would believe you ... assuming I couldn't see the guitar.

    Both guitars sound great.

  6. #30

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    Here's the Severson video comparing his L4 and L5.



    I think his L4 sounded better in the L4 vs 175 video.

    I do think you will hear a difference if you have the two together to compare.

    But in a blind test or on a recording it would be hard to tell the difference.

    And of course, one L4 may not sound exactly like another L4 and the same for L5 guitars.

    imho ymmv

  7. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Betz
    I see where the L4-CES has the same 24.75" scale length as a 175, but do they share the same neck profile? I really like the 175 soft / rounded C-profile (coming in at about 1.00” at the 12th). I have heard that the L4 has a faster (thinner) neck. As there is zero chance playing one a store within 100 a mile radius my only shot would be an on-line purchase.
    check the end of the video. He says the builds are identical, other than the trim.

  8. #32

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    Thank you! That was the first review I have seen that discusses the neck profiles. I get his comment on the ‘wow’ factor when opening the case.

  9. #33

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    I think there is a real tone difference between the L-4's with the laminated maple and laminated mahogany back and sides and the later l-4's with the solid carved mahogany back and sides. The tops were always carved and not pressed. i read that when Gibson made the move from Kalamazoo to Nashville they started training workers on carving L-4 tops and then moved on to L-5's and S400's. My 2009 L-4 CES
    thanks JohnWhat - No Gibson L4 CES?-img_5018-jpg

  10. #34

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    I have an L4-CES and a Howard Roberts. Both have similar body sizes - THIS is the most important thing for me and the reason I no longer play an L5. The L5 is just slightly too big, I was always aware of the somewhat uncomfortable big body so could never really bond with it.
    The next important thing is the neck - the L5 has a very chunky feeling neck which again is not comfortable for my hands. The L4 neck is slimmer although not as slim as the HR (probably because the L4 is mahogany, the HR is maple) - I'd actually say that the HR has the best feeling neck of any guitar, but of course we all have slightly different hands.
    The HR has the longer 25.5 scale. This does indeed give more of a ping to the notes when soloing. The L4 gives a warmer sound, although the single floating p/u on the HR gives a wonderful clarity to the most complex chord playing and just a bit more detail.
    Which is better? well both get an equal amount of playing so both are winners for me, but I'll pass on the L5.

  11. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by GordonM
    I have an L4-CES and a Howard Roberts. Both have similar body sizes - THIS is the most important thing for me and the reason I no longer play an L5. The L5 is just slightly too big, I was always aware of the somewhat uncomfortable big body so could never really bond with it.
    The next important thing is the neck - the L5 has a very chunky feeling neck which again is not comfortable for my hands. The L4 neck is slimmer although not as slim as the HR (probably because the L4 is mahogany, the HR is maple) - I'd actually say that the HR has the best feeling neck of any guitar, but of course we all have slightly different hands.
    The HR has the longer 25.5 scale. This does indeed give more of a ping to the notes when soloing. The L4 gives a warmer sound, although the single floating p/u on the HR gives a wonderful clarity to the most complex chord playing and just a bit more detail.
    Which is better? well both get an equal amount of playing so both are winners for me, but I'll pass on the L5.
    Just shows us how different we are as players. I way prefer the 18 inch body of Super 400 I just snug right over the guitar. A bit of a chunky neck was never a problem but give me a real thin neck in width or depth and I don't feel really good about the it at all.

    Just a note about Howard Roberts.............he could play any guitar a make it sound great he had the technique covered in every aspect. He made the Gibson HR to stand up to a 175 as he thought it was bit fragile. Given Howard's adventurous movements on the neck he probably was right.

  12. #36

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    *A lot* of collectors here from what I can tell and - While a GREAT guitar, the L4 isn’t as historically significant as the 175 (or L5 for that matter) and not the top tier instrument that the L5 was, therefore not a lot of desire to own to the collector.

  13. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris236
    *A lot* of collectors here from what I can tell and - While a GREAT guitar, the L4 isn’t as historically significant as the 175 (or L5 for that matter) and not the top tier instrument that the L5 was, therefore not a lot of desire to own to the collector.
    That's good because I'm a PLAYER, not a collector.

  14. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by deacon Mark

    Just a note about Howard Roberts.............he could play any guitar a make it sound great he had the technique covered in every aspect. He made the Gibson HR to stand up to a 175 as he thought it was bit fragile. Given Howard's adventurous movements on the neck he probably was right.
    Yes, he liked really heavy strings so it's reassuring that with my lighter strings (a 12 set) I'm not putting the same strain on my 49 year old HR and so it should go on for many more years

  15. #39

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    Not an L4CES, just an L4C, AFAICT, but Whit Smith with Hot Club of Cowtown has been using one with a floater for years. He originally had a DeArmond Guitar Mic on it, but lately has some other floater which sounds very similar. I can't tell exactly what it is, it's mounted at an angle. That old Gibson is sort of beat up from a long life on the road, but still sounds good. Whit seems to have given up on touring with his old Gibson amp, and now looks to have a Vintage47 replacement. Still sounds about the same.

  16. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell
    Not an L4CES, just an L4C, AFAICT, but Whit Smith with Hot Club of Cowtown has been using one with a floater for years. He originally had a DeArmond Guitar Mic on it, but lately has some other floater which sounds very similar. I can't tell exactly what it is, it's mounted at an angle. That old Gibson is sort of beat up from a long life on the road, but still sounds good. Whit seems to have given up on touring with his old Gibson amp, and now looks to have a Vintage47 replacement. Still sounds about the same.
    I don’t think Whit has an L4C. He has a couple of pre-war L5s that have Florentine cutaways added, equipped with TK Smith floaters.

  17. #41

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    Possible, I'm no Gibson expert. I associate the florentine cutaway with the L4, maybe incorrectly.

  18. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by customxke
    I don’t think Whit has an L4C. He has a couple of pre-war L5s that have Florentine cutaways added, equipped with TK Smith floaters.
    correct, though I only know of one that was modified. I think he sold the dot neck L-5 he had been using before that one but not certain.
    I've seen him w/a refinished to blonde 16" block marker L-5 semi recently

  19. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by wintermoon
    correct, though I only know of one that was modified. I think he sold the dot neck L-5 he had been using before that one but not certain.
    I've seen him w/a refinished to blonde 16" block marker L-5 semi recently
    What - No Gibson L4 CES?-photo-feb-20-8-50-13-am-jpeg

  20. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by customxke
    What - No Gibson L4 CES?-photo-feb-20-8-50-13-am-jpeg
    According to the prewar L-5 page he doesn't own the dot neck anymore, maybe he replaced it with the block marker on the right.

  21. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Sound
    Very nice sounding guitars. I had an earlier L4C with a chief pickup. As far as the CES goes, I always thought that cosmetically it needed a bound headstock. The plain headstock seems out of place on such a fancy archtop. Purely superficial.
    I hear you Woody Sound, I wouldn’t mind having a bound headstock, but it’s not something I notice while playing (and certainly can’t hear that it’s missing )
    What - No Gibson L4 CES?-img_0296-jpeg

  22. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by DMgolf66
    Are there any professional/famous players that played an L-4CES?
    Rich Severson had one for a while.

    He sounded fantastic with it but I then came to realise he makes almost anything sound good because he has a delicate touch.

    I asked him years ago how he got that sound and he said he uses a lot of effects/para eq stuff. Quite a bit in his signal chain.

    His rendition of sugar is the one I learnt.


  23. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Archtop Heaven
    Rich Severson had one for a while.

    He sounded fantastic with it but I then came to realise he makes almost anything sound good because he has a delicate touch.

    I asked him years ago how he got that sound and he said he uses a lot of effects/para eq stuff. Quite a bit in his signal chain.

    His rendition of sugar is the one I learnt.
    Really? now that's a bit surprising. I watch his livestreams sometimes and he is often comparing two or more different guitars. He implies that he isn't messing with the sound signal too much and as well as plugged in he demonstrates them acoustically where you can really tell that he has a great feel and touch.
    A great player - it may sound daft to people on this forum but both him and Michael Angelo Batio (completely different style of music) are incredibly inspirational to me insofar as they're both older but still play so fantastically, with the passion of a youngster and the precision of a master.

  24. #48

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    My L-5CES and its little brother L-4CES. Both are fantastic instruments in every way. I played a prototype L-4CES when I was first starting on guitar and always wanted one. Have had many ES-175s throughout my life and the L-4 feels like the best of them but sounds mellower and sweeter. I agree that it sits somewhere in between the 175 and L-5, tone wise, but I’d say closer to the L-5. While it isn’t very ‘thunky’, it does have quite a bit of that distinctive ‘bark’ that L-5s have due to the carved spruce top.

    Thanks to wonderful members of this forum who parted with these beauties, I enjoy both of them alongside my other Gibson archtops. What - No Gibson L4 CES?-img_5394-jpg

    Roli

  25. #49

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    I have a 96 L4 CES. I see this guitar as a smaller version of a L5, thus I wish the headstock was like the L5's.

  26. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by DMgolf66
    Are there any professional/famous players that played an L-4CES?
    Joe Diorio