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Edit: new thread if a mod wants to lock or delete this feel free
The final choice of 2 Epiphone Broadway / Gretsch G5420 lefty
Hi everyone so in follow up to my previous thread im a lefty learner looking for my first archtop to learn on while I learn some Wes Montgomery n Charlie Christian with the main focus on Wes's stuff.
I managed to get out today to a guitar shop that had a 2nd hand modern epi Zenith in so I played round midnight with it upside down with my dad sat across from me say 5 foot away n me really digging in playing with my thumb acousticly he couldn't hear me at all n I was struggling to hear myself over the usual din which was a bit disappointing nice neck but seemed to have 0 cut /projection didn't get round to trying it plugged in as the shop was shutting so decided to rule those out n also rule the bigger Deluxe version out of the modern ones which was my initial choice.
So that leads me into my next question ^_^ my dream guitar is an l5 as I'm sure it is for many but being lefty there's no ces lefties about n a none cutaway original L5 is just way beyond me so I've Narrowed it down to 4 possible guitars.
My amp is a Fender tonemaster Deluxe Reverb n I currently play a avri lefty strat n a 1999 epi lefty les paul.
The Godin 5th av acoustic 2nd hand strung righty n fit a floating pickup. N play it upside down I can play the strings strung righty or lefty as long as the neck is to my right as I've got a damaged finger on my left hand.
£450
The Godin 5th av with the p90 which comes as a lefty (I know wes played an es at one point but not sure on which albums) £770 but I've not played a p90 yet.
A 2nd Hand Epiphone Joe Pass Lefty seems to have a 16"bout an a shorter scale like the Godins. 350-500 or so
The only other option I can see is the Gretsch New Yorker G9555 with the floating pickup but I've not found much info on those. £550
I'm hoping to do a couple of 5 hour drives n play the Gretsch n a Godin over the next week or so but the Epi Joe Pass lefty would be an online purchase if I could track one down.
Has anyone owned or played one or both or all of these? Out of interest what would you chase if you were aiming for a similar ballpark jazzy tone to Wes/ an L5 I know its all in his fingers but still gotta have something to aim for even if it is unobtainable. Also if you've played a few of them how did you find them acousticly
I've not found any 17" bout 25.5" scale ones about in the UK that are none cutaway under the £800 mark so these are the ones that have got my attention currently unless someone's got an idea of something I've not thought off I've ruled the vintage epi's n gibsons out for now as they are all a bit beyond me at the moment.
Huge thanks in advance n thanks for all the advice so far Lucy
Last edited by Lucy; 08-02-2022 at 03:06 PM.
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07-30-2022 09:25 PM
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at this point, I'd play your new Jazz tunes on the guitars that you already own
and start saving up, until you can afford something nice.
have you tried some flatwounds on the Stratocaster already ?
if not, give Thomastik JazzSwing #11 a go, tune that whole guitar a half step down
and have a good time.
We humans live for decades, there is no need to accomplish important things
within days or weeks.
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I don't think you would miss anything by not having a big old Gibson, except a hefty insurance premium. Expensive guitars generally are owned by people of money, and few of them are musicians. I would go for the Godin with the P90. I would buy one myself, but the neighbours might complain.
Good luck for your search.
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The godin p90 is probably the best of the ones you mention, its a pro level guitar I”d say. The joe pass es I have played has been good guitars, but older korean can be week in the electronics department, can be upgraded later.
For plugged in jazz tone a les paul with heavy flatwounds sounds real good btw
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My two cents. I have three guitars: an Epiphone Joe Pass II, an Epiphone Es175 Premium and an Eastman Ar503. It may sound strange, but my "go to" guitar is the Joe Pass. Two things contribute: the really nice sound of the pickup when coil-splitted (not nice if not splitted), having found after many tests a perfect match with the strings (Thomastik JS113).
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I agree with others that the LP is a great choice for playing jazz if set up properly.
Out of the ones you mentioned, the Godin Kingpin is the best guitar, and most versatile. I had a Joe Pass also—the Korean ones were generally quite well made, and I think the later Indonesian ones are very good. You *might* get closest to a Wes tone with that guitar, but as always YMMV.
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Thanks everyone yep I've been really enjoying the LP got it set up for early peter green, danny kirwan fleetwood mac at the moment lotsa bends n stuff.
I'm really appreciating the replies I was bored before n ended up nipping into a local guitar shop an surprisingly they actually had a Joe Pass it was a righty but the first one I've seen in the flesh ^_^ so ended up playing it upside down for a bit into a blackstar amp so not the greatest of amp choices but the sound was really nice plugged in, quiet acoustically which wouldn't be to bad for late practice at home but a nice tone plugged in felt the closest I've got to what I'm hearing in my head compared to the modern Epiphone Masterbilt Zenith I played yesterday but didn't get to play that plugged in, getting a bit used to playing them upside down now lol.
It was weird I wasn't a huge fan of the acoustic sound of the Zenith yesterday but it was louder than the Joe Pass which is sort of what I expected neck wise I preferred the Masterbilt as it was thicker and proffered the 25.5" scale (I've got quite long fingers so liked the thicker neck)
I can't get the tone of the JP out of my head though it really would have benefited from a fet job though was a few sharp ones n buzzes, it had a lovely look about it though so it's got me thinking of a lefty one a few have come up really reasonable lately but just need to think about the necks the nut width seemed narrow n the neck profile was compared to my strat which is a soft V.
Thinking next plan is to go and get a go on a Godin with the P90 in a lefty this week,then its a weigh up between a Godin P90 or Godin Acoustic version from a few years back with a floating pickup, not sure which would be better for the sort of stuff I'm playing between those if anyone's played a Godin Acoustic version how much louder was it than the P90 verson?
N one other I've just started thinking about although not ideal is flipping a Broadway upside down wasn't even aware of them till I started reading about them today anyone had one compared to the joe pass? The only downside would be reversed strings an the controls being near the elbow crook.
Looking forward to trying the Godin's out this week keep hearing good things about them.
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I hve owned all the ones you mentioned except the Godin. Have played the Godin ...not thrilled. I have an D Angelico EXL 1 from 2013 . lefty of course.Way better than any thing in the price range. Very good both pluged and unplugged. stock pickup.. Please excuse my poor typing skills..mickmac
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eBay UK has a nice looking leftie Eastman in Chichester at the moment for £1,000.
They're not reknown for Wes tones, but well made guitars and I've heard some clips of Eastman players sounding mighty fine...
Good luck with your search.
Eastman AR805LCE-SB Left Handed | eBay
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Thanks Mick n Simon it's a shame isn't it that the EXL-1 Lefty isn't more available listed on the D'Angelico website but I spent 5 hours the other night going through the dealer list n there's none about. Actually emailed them to see if they are still doing it but no reply yet
thanks for the link Simon was actually looking at that the other day when scrolling through got my eye on a couple of used guitars at the mo.
If I could have took the neck off the masterbilt modern zenith the profile n fretwork was really nice n the scale n stuck it on the Joe Pass that would have been amazing.
It's been interesting getting to play a few though might get up in the morning an go for a long drive to try the Godin. Was reading before about small frets so need to certainly try one while it's in a dealer.
The one that I keep looking at currently is the Broadway's as its a 25.5" scale 17 Inch bout not sure what the depth is but I'd have to flip it upside down not a bad way of trying a 17" for a while n seeing if I could cope with that n playing reverse for a while / position of controls as I'd love one of the Wes re issues in the future that they did in the past with the single pickup.
Tomorrow should be super interesting n I'll make sure to report back ^_^
an dont worry mickmac im dyslexic so wouldn't even notice
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Originally Posted by Lucy
Thanks Mick n Simon it's a shame isn't it that the EXL-1 Lefty isn't more available listed on the D'Angelico website but I spent 5 hours the other night going through the dealer list n there's none about. Actually emailed them to see if they are still doing it but no reply yet thanks for the link Simon was actually looking at that the other day when scrolling through got my eye on a couple of used guitars at the mo.
If I could have took the neck off the masterbilt modern zenith the profile n fretwork was really nice n the scale n stuck it on the Joe Pass that would have been amazing.
It's been interesting getting to play a few though might get up in the morning an go for a long drive to try the Godin. Was reading before about small frets so need to certainly try one while it's in a dealer.
The one that I keep looking at currently is the Broadway's as its a 25.5" scale 17 Inch bout not sure what the depth is but I'd have to flip it upside down not a bad way of trying a 17" for a while n seeing if I could cope with that n playing reverse for a while / position of controls as I'd love one of the Wes re issues in the future that they did in the past with the single pickup.
Tomorrow should be super interesting n I'll make sure to report back ^_^
an dont worry mickmac im dyslexic so wouldn't even notice
Trying is fine, but whatever you do, don’t buy a righty and flip it. Eventually the knobs and cable location will annoy you.
My 2c about the guitar, first recommendation is a used peerless if you can find one. I sold mine stupidly after I got my 175. It was a fantastic instrument. Second, worth considering is if you can find the cheap Eastman 175 copy. It’s a decent instrument.
Anyway, good luck from a fellow lefty!!!
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Thanks Vintagelove
yep I think you are right about the controls been thinking about it this morning as my arm was pretty much resting on them.
I'll check the Peerless an the eastmans out what Peerless did you have if you don't mind me asking? An yay for another lefty hopefully the more vocal we are the more chance of lefties being made for us.
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I have an acoustic Godin 5th Avenue right now, and it looks/sounds virtually identical to the electric Kingpin (single p/u) unplugged. The pickup is a surface mount and doesn’t affect the tone much.
I put a floater on the 5th Avenue just for the heck of it.
The neck of the Godin feels exactly the same as the Epiphone JP to me. In fact, all Korean-made guitars I have played have the same neck feel. I do like the satin finish on the Godin neck though. Great idea.
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Had a very interesting day today,
Ended up playing the Godin with the p90 lefty, a RH Joe Pass spun upside down with righty stringing actually found a dealer with one in, an finally a surprising Gretsch G5420 which I'd never played a Gretsch before,
Thought's
Godin lefty first wow the tone totally get what you mean about airy it was very nice but the p90 had alot of hum which would be a problem with our old Edwardian house all makes a racket so that's something to think about.
Thoughts on the body the size felt a little small weirdly which I didn't expect an couldn't quite get on with the neck some moments I loved it others I was tripping over myself a bit which surprised me, the fretwork was really nice shame it had roundwounds on as the string noise was really off putting and the action seemed super high an I just really wasn't sure about the neck an the flat board my strat's a 7.25 an a soft v so quite a bit different to what I'm used to. maybe it's just a vase of getting used to it.
After a bit of a chat about stuff I was about to head out an a Gretsch G5420 got mentioned so thought when in Rome might as well. I must admit the neck wowed me instantly very nice for my hand beautiful fretwork the tone was very sparkly but mellow at moments to quite a different guitar loved the size as the body felt a bit fuller. Was an interesting guitar though be great for some of my early fleetwood mac stuff was brill on some of that but not quite what I was looking for tone wise I think for the Jazz stuff I'm starting to like to play.
Finally the last guitar the Epi Joe Pass, instantly put me in mind of the Wes Montgomery tone playing it upside down had a yay moment when someone recognised what I was playing then asked for Dire Straits an I managed to thumble some Brothers in arms with reversed strings lol. Having said that seemed to lack a bit of clarity at points compared to the Godin. The thing that drove me mad was the controls jamming in my arm at first I didn't notice it but when I left had circles on my arms from them an was giving me a bit of discomfort after a bit boo so that rules a epi broadway out or a vintage L-5CES played uspide down in the future drat
Thoughts on tone very mellow really liked it think I was playing it for quite a while haha where as the Godin seemed breathy n a bit perkier. somewhere between them would be amazing. Acoustically the Godin won out.
Really hard choice between hunting a lefty Epi Joe Pass out or Going for a Godin can see me going back to play the Godin again. It's a shame they didn't give us lefties the humbuckers.
If I could have took the neck profile from the masterbilt stuck it on the Epi with the breathiness of the Godin perfect guitar.
So quite a bit of thinking to do now between the Godin an the Epi the Epi's seem to get closer to the tone in my head for Wes stuff but the Godin really nailed the Charlie Christian tone. Somehow I need both lol.
lots to think about
The lack of cutaway was a little limiting for some stuff but I have got other guitars for that. I keep thinking about the future and my dream of an L7 or L5 and I'd probably just play it with the strings righty but upside down weirdly I didn't have any issue changing direction as I thought I would little slower but it was ok felt different on bends n stuff though.
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Originally Posted by Lucy
Had a very interesting day today,
Ended up playing the Godin with the p90 lefty, a RH Joe Pass spun upside down with righty stringing actually found a dealer with one in, an finally a surprising Gretsch G5420 which I'd never played a Gretsch before,
Thought's
Godin lefty first wow the tone totally get what you mean about airy it was very nice but the p90 had alot of hum which would be a problem with our old Edwardian house all makes a racket so that's something to think about.
Thoughts on the body the size felt a little small weirdly which I didn't expect an couldn't quite get on with the neck some moments I loved it others I was tripping over myself a bit which surprised me, the fretwork was really nice shame it had roundwounds on as the string noise was really off putting and the action seemed super high an I just really wasn't sure about the neck an the flat board my strat's a 7.25 an a soft v so quite a bit different to what I'm used to. maybe it's just a vase of getting used to it.
After a bit of a chat about stuff I was about to head out an a Gretsch G5420 got mentioned so thought when in Rome might as well. I must admit the neck wowed me instantly very nice for my hand beautiful fretwork the tone was very sparkly but mellow at moments to quite a different guitar loved the size as the body felt a bit fuller. Was an interesting guitar though be great for some of my early fleetwood mac stuff was brill on some of that but not quite what I was looking for tone wise I think for the Jazz stuff I'm starting to like to play.
Finally the last guitar the Epi Joe Pass, instantly put me in mind of the Wes Montgomery tone playing it upside down had a yay moment when someone recognised what I was playing then asked for Dire Straits an I managed to thumble some Brothers in arms with reversed strings lol. Having said that seemed to lack a bit of clarity at points compared to the Godin. The thing that drove me mad was the controls jamming in my arm at first I didn't notice it but when I left had circles on my arms from them an was giving me a bit of discomfort after a bit boo so that rules a epi broadway out or a vintage L-5CES played uspide down in the future drat
Thoughts on tone very mellow really liked it think I was playing it for quite a while haha where as the Godin seemed breathy n a bit perkier. somewhere between them would be amazing. Acoustically the Godin won out.
Really hard choice between hunting a lefty Epi Joe Pass out or Going for a Godin can see me going back to play the Godin again. It's a shame they didn't give us lefties the humbuckers.
If I could have took the neck profile from the masterbilt stuck it on the Epi with the breathiness of the Godin perfect guitar.
So quite a bit of thinking to do now between the Godin an the Epi the Epi's seem to get closer to the tone in my head for Wes stuff but the Godin really nailed the Charlie Christian tone. Somehow I need both lol.
lots to think about
The lack of cutaway was a little limiting for some stuff but I have got other guitars for that. I keep thinking about the future and my dream of an L7 or L5 and I'd probably just play it with the strings righty but upside down weirdly I didn't have any issue changing direction as I thought I would little slower but it was ok felt different on bends n stuff though.
Hello again. The guitar was a peerless Monarch. Probably the most stable neck I ever had. It never moved, had perfect fretwork. Ugh… I want it back…
My 2 cents,
The p90 noise will bug you eventually, so potentially budget a hundred bucks down the line to get a noise canceling model (or humbucker in p90 shape).
The high action should worry you a bit if you’re not capable of assessing the cause and fixing it. Could be a 2 minute bridge adjustment, or an $$$$ bad neck angle lemon.
Lots of lefty epi joe pass in the US. Maybe have a look here.
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my thoughts with the P90 noise: it all depends on the angle of the guitar towards the amp.
if you stand up with your humming P90 guitar, just slowly turn around 360° to find the position with least hum,
then stand or seat in that place while playing.
And keep your hands on the strings.
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There are cheap noice gates like behringer nr300, and there are humbuckers in p90 form factor, so if everything else fits then go for it
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The p90 noise on my Les Paul DC junior became too much, and I put Kent Armstrongs but the original pu noise was mostly caused by rusted potmeters. The silent Kinman sounds best imho. But another 150 to spend…
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Although I am not familiar with the left handed domain, I have the experience of buying too many guitars that were the ones I could afford, but in the end were the wrong buys. Jazz can be played on any guitar, regardless if Wes or Charlie. My advice to you is: buy only if it is your dream guitar. Buy something cheap that will not bring a big loss if you think it is time to resell it and keep the majority of your budget in the pocket until the day comes - and it will come - that you will be able to buy that dream guitar. When I started I could only buy a 25-50 USD guitar. lousy quality and I wished I had listened to my tutor/coach not to spend my monety on that thing. Now, 50 years later, I own a pair of L5s and a line of other really nice guitars. Patience, grasshopper, patience. It is what I lacked for decades. My eyes were allways telling me: buy that one, that will bring you further. But, my eyes were deceiviing me. I wish you patience.
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Thanks everyone really appreciate the replies I tried the Godin again today it's got such an warm tone it has to be said it's so lush but the neck really doesn't suit me
Also got to try a rh 2017 made in China Broadway that I couldn't put down wow! It suprised me how open the tone was. I noticed the connections Were soldered was that Normal on the Broadways?
I think the weigh up now is between a Broadway played upside down or a Joe Pass.Last edited by Lucy; 08-02-2022 at 11:53 AM.
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There's nothing really wrong with the Godin Kingpin. P90 noise is manageable with an Electro-Harmonix Hum Debugger. Upper fret access is almost as good as a cutaway because of the raised fretboard. The slightly smaller body is comfortable to play. The flat fretboard is unusual in an archtop (most are 12"), but one adapts. The plain finish has its charms. It's a legit, gigable guitar that is stupid cheap considering how good it sounds and well it plays. But it's also kind of quirky, and there are appreciable differences between it and guitars a bit further up the ladder. So a fair number of people move on once they figure out their likes and dislikes (guilty). I liked mine and got a ton of use out of it, but like what I have now more. I would have been happy to keep it, but was also happy to pass it on to a family member who needed a guitar. But other people keep them for life as their main ax. I think that's just kind of the deal with guitars in general. It takes most people a while to figure out what they want (and some people never really do settle down).
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Thanks everyone I just wanna thank you all for taking the time to reply I got to play a ton of guitars today been driving about since 6am going to different stores I'm gonna start a new thread as I've narrowed it Down to two individual models but thought this thread would be useful rather than me editing the original post.
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