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  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell
    I'm not going to argue. It's not worth the effort. Tuning forks are long obsolete for tuning instruments anyway.
    Argument is not appropriate. These are 2 separate issues. I agree that forks are anachronistic for most of us - but that's not part of the discussion at hand. The second issue is both important and easy to settle. Your statement that " I had a pitch pipe, which is theoretically more accurate" is not correct. A mechanical pitch pipe with a reed is not as accurate as a calibrated tuning fork, and pitch pipes will drift over time (especially if blown hard). Pitch accuracy of a pitch pipe is easily tested, but I don't have one so I can't do that. But I can demonstrate the accuracy of a tuning fork, so I just did.

    Every fork used in the study I cited was calibrated on a B&K spectrum analyzer in the University of Pennsylvania Audiology Research Lab before the study was done. I just measured the output of one of the 256 Hz steel forks used in that study. Here it is - see the actual frequency in the lower left corner of the display. I also included a calculator showing conversion of the 0.15 Hz variance into actual cents. This fork is accurate to 1.014 cents, which I do not consider approximate. Some of the others were even more accurate, but none of the high quality steel forks was less so. For comparison, I also ran one of the cheap aluminum forks alongside this one, and it was sharp by 6 cents. I've done this many times over the years - the best steel forks are amazingly consistent, as clean (re THD) as a top line B&K laboratory signal generator, and within 1 cent or less of true pitch. Good tuning forks are quite accurate and cheap ones are not. It's as simple as that.

    Clip-on Tuner-256fork_strobe-jpg

    Clip-on Tuner-256fork_accuracy_in_cents-jpg

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  3. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell
    FWIW, the Peterson Stroboclip does turn off automatically. I just tried it, and although I failed to measure the timeout accurately, it's 3 minutes or less. It doesn't time out while in use, though, it only turns itself off after a period of inactivity, receiving no vibrations for the duration. I've looked on the Peterson site, and can't find any information on it, but it does have auto off.
    Could be that mine does too, I tend to play at least one note every 3 minutes, so I wouldnt have noticed

    My previous tuners has gone to sleep after a minute or so regardless, so thats what I thought of as auto off

  4. #53

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    Fun fact, the standard temperature for tuning forks is 68 degrees fahrenheit, at which they ring true

  5. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell
    I'm not going to argue. It's not worth the effort. Tuning forks are long obsolete for tuning instruments anyway.
    Oh? Doesn't that make string instrument and our own ears equally obsolete?

    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell
    FWIW, the Peterson Stroboclip does turn off automatically. I just tried it, and although I failed to measure the timeout accurately, it's 3 minutes or less. It doesn't time out while in use, though, it only turns itself off after a period of inactivity
    FWIW, same applies to my Korg GA Custom "pocket" tuner (of which a clip-on exists that seems to work quite well too)

  6. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell
    FWIW, the Peterson Stroboclip does turn off automatically. I just tried it, and although I failed to measure the timeout accurately, it's 3 minutes or less. It doesn't time out while in use, though, it only turns itself off after a period of inactivity, receiving no vibrations for the duration. I've looked on the Peterson site, and can't find any information on it, but it does have auto off.
    nice to know , thanks

  7. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohanAbrandt
    Fun fact, the standard temperature for tuning forks is 68 degrees fahrenheit, at which they ring true
    Right. But the range necessary to affect a 256 fork is far wider than we encounter when playing our guitars. In this typical experiment, one nominally 256 fork was 258 at 5C / 41F and 250 at 50C / 122F. At calibration temp (20C), it’s a 256 fork.

    And that range will vary with the design and composition of the fork. Those with a lower coefficient of thermal expansion will change less with increasing temp because the dimensions are much less sensitive to temp.. Aluminum has a coefficient of about 20, and steel is about 10 - so a good steel fork will be much less affected by temperature change. The formula for calculating frequency of a fork of given construction is in this paper and every textbook on the subject, and all the parameters are described.

    The numbers in the paper linked above look to me like they’re for aluminum forks.

  8. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohanAbrandt
    Could be that mine does too, I tend to play at least one note every 3 minutes, so I wouldnt have noticed

    My previous tuners has gone to sleep after a minute or so regardless, so thats what I thought of as auto off
    My TC Polytune turns off automatically, even if I'm in the middle of tuning. That frustrates me, and I don't like it. That's the first tuner I remember having that feature/bug, the rest keep working until turned off or timed out. The sensitivity of the Peterson could be an issue, I suppose. Last night I put it on the table which holds my turntable, intending to test the timeout. While waiting, I played guitar, and it lit up as I played, picking up the sound from the amp, which wasn't very loud. I then put it on the floor, which is a concrete slab, and that stopped it, and it shut off via timeout. It does shut off the display, down to a very dim, barely discernible arc, very quickly, so it's a little hard to tell exactly when it shuts off. But it does turn off, as evidenced by being completely blank, and not responding to vibrations until the power button is press for a second, just as with a manual turn off. We just need to remember to remove the StroboClip from the guitar and either turn it off or put it someplace where it receives no sound vibrations. As long as it's sensing vibrations, it stays on and working.

  9. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by RJVB
    Oh? Doesn't that make string instrument and our own ears equally obsolete?
    I don't think so. An accurate tuning fork is pretty expensive, and only gives one note. That's a lot of money for very little return. Any cheap tuner is accurate to one cent, and better ones are 0.1 cent, to a wider range of notes than the guitar can cover, by a lot. Why would I buy a tuning fork when I can more easily buy an electronic tuner for the same price, or even a lot less? Technology is not all bad.

  10. #59

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    Why does it take so many of you longer than 30 seconds to tune?

  11. #60

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    Anyone using Peterson Strobe's iStrobosoft on their iPhone? Seems like they're pushing it on their site. FWIW, if you follow some of Rob Mackillop's stuff for gut strings... the bit about resetting "A" to something other than 440 HZ works with the iPhone tuner app "GuiTune" that I've used before with some success. Tried out the alternate "A" thing a few times out of curiosity, and yes, it works, but I switched back. Duh. But there is a flexibility with apps and Peterson is selling a plug in so you would plug your guitar directly into the phone if that makes sense. I have not gone this route, but am taking notes from this discussion. (Thank you!)

    As to the tuning fork, I got rid of mine after 2 decades of using electronic tuners....didn't even know I still had it. The electronic things are simpler.

    BUT FWIW, I wanted to add the most common use I see of tuning forks is with singing groups, choirs, etc. ...where they don't have instruments to get their pitch from and the singing is a capella. This is my usual Sunday observation... that the choir director takes the cue from the "A" of the tuning fork, and then softly sings the pitches to the choir but at least in my parish, most of their music is set in a mode of "A" so that makes sense. Again, "duh".

  12. #61

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    Why does it take so many of you longer than 30 seconds to tune?
    Maybe because I'm old and slow. Maybe because I want accurate tuning, and that requires retuning, or at least rechecking, the previous strings at least once after I go through all 6.

  13. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell
    Maybe because I'm old and slow. Maybe because I want accurate tuning, and that requires retuning, or at least rechecking, the previous strings at least once after I go through all 6.
    fair enough

  14. #63

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    I have the iStroboSoft app on my phone, and the PitchGrabber. It works. It's mostly useful for setting intonation, because it gives a much larger display than a clipon. It's accurate, and the phone's mic works well enough in quiet environments. If it's noisy, the PitchGrabber works. The downside is that it's cumbersome, and doesn't work well in a gig situation. For tuning at home it's a cheap option that works.

  15. #64

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    Thanks for reminding me: iPhone doesn't really work (and a plug-in pigtail would tend to get lost amid clutter) except when you can post it on a music stand while you tune. So the clip-on's reign remains intact. THanks!

  16. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWMandy
    Thanks for reminding me: iPhone doesn't really work (and a plug-in pigtail would tend to get lost amid clutter) except when you can post it on a music stand while you tune. So the clip-on's reign remains intact.
    Not true for the mileage I get from my iPhone SE: fits nicely on my knee while tuning, or in noisier situations, on top of the guitar (which I lay flat in my lap in that case).

    I use the Airyware tuning app, which is cheaper than Strobosoft's and does everything with the same accuracy AFAICT. It even includes a wave display which can come in handy.
    There's an Android version of the app, which probably makes it easier to pair it with a generic clip-on mic.

    FWIW, my Korg tuner works fine off the KA pickup on my archtop; I have to presume this would be the same for other electromagnetic PUs and other tuners that have an input for an external mic.

  17. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
    Right. But the range necessary to affect a 256 fork is far wider than we encounter when playing our guitars. In this typical experiment, one nominally 256 fork was 258 at 5C / 41F and 250 at 50C / 122F. At calibration temp (20C), it’s a 256 fork.

    And that range will vary with the design and composition of the fork. Those with a lower coefficient of thermal expansion will change less with increasing temp because the dimensions are much less sensitive to temp.. Aluminum has a coefficient of about 20, and steel is about 10 - so a good steel fork will be much less affected by temperature change. The formula for calculating frequency of a fork of given construction is in this paper and every textbook on the subject, and all the parameters are described.

    The numbers in the paper linked above look to me like they’re for aluminum forks.
    Seems like you know your forks =)

  18. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    Thank you for this. One review on Amazon says that this tuner is too sensitive to room noise. I want to be able to tune while the band is playing.
    That is the problem with the clip-ons I have tried.

  19. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Sound
    That is the problem with the clip-ons I have tried.
    Find one slim enough to clip on your saddle? But why not simply use a pedal tuner, in the band setting?

  20. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by RJVB
    Find one slim enough to clip on your saddle? But why not simply use a pedal tuner, in the band setting?
    Because you have no pedal board, or it is full, has no more room, or is too heavy already. Or you don’t want to lug a pedal wirh you in your guitar bag….. I can think of some reasons Clip-on Tuner

    Myself, I don’t like to sacrifice valuable board space for a tuner…. Luckily, my guitars are all very stable (yes all of them, no exception funny enough) and I always tune once at the beginning of the gig and very rarely I need to tune again that night….. I credit that to the fact that all my nuts are well cut (I do that myself), play on heavy flatwounds, I carefully wind the strings when putting them on and stretch them before use and of course I don’t use any tremolo/vibrato and perhaps I play (too?) civilised?

  21. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by RJVB
    Find one slim enough to clip on your saddle? But why not simply use a pedal tuner, in the band setting?
    Well I use a pedal board for theater work, but for big band I just go straight into the amp.

  22. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Sound
    Well I use a pedal board for theater work, but for big band I just go straight into the amp.
    So you could put a compact pedal tuner in the chain.

    Alternatively, learn to (re)tune by ear like orchestra players do while the rest of the orchestra continues to play. Actually, you might be able to use bone condition if you put the bit of skull just behind your ears on the guitar body

  23. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by RJVB
    Actually, you might be able to use bone condition if you put the bit of skull just behind your ears on the guitar body
    No joke - I do that by pressing the top of the upper bout against my ear and mastoid bone firmly enough to get bone conduction, if I think a string may be slightly off and my tuner's dead, knocked off etc. It's also occasionally useful when someone (usually a vocalist or overeager jammer) starts a tune without calling the key or starts in a key other than the one in which the tune was called. I can usually pick it up right away - but an occasional player or singer "innovates" and it's very hard to figure out where they're going without a tonal reference.

  24. #73

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    I have touched the butt end of a fork to a tooth. Rings in your entire head.

  25. #74

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    Try getting it wrong with a mouth harp, can be a bit of a chock for a tooth