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Its actually exactly like singing. A good classical singer won’t hear much do their own sound beyond the lower ntoes because the sound waves don’t diffract as much into the ears, and your sound is going OUT. So you have to learn to trust it (and your teacher) and not try to make a sound that sounds good to you.
Originally Posted by frankhond
No wonder opera singers are all crazy.
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07-28-2022 03:45 AM
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Sometimes I wonder how much we expect a guitar build to compensate for our technique.
Regarding hollowbodies, just what is the purpose compared to a solid body? There is a spectrum from weight relieved, to semi-hollow, to thin hollow, to hollow but loaded with hardware, to traditional archtop with a floater.
The H-575 with two mounted pickups is an electric with maybe some acoustic resonance. It can have a maple, mahogany or spruce top, depending how it was ordered. Many people did order these instruments and very competent people recorded and did concerts with them. They work.
Norlin era guitars are criticized a lot. Yet some great instruments then were made. The luthiers did not lose their skills. I do agree that there were some quality concerns, especially with the high production number instruments.
I've owned a few Kalamazoo built Howard Roberts guitars. The Norlin era one is absolutely as good as any.
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Originally Posted by Marty Grass
noooooooooo but then we’d have to … like … practice
seriously I actually often find a new guitar challenges my technique.
Jonathan Kreisberg plays a Norlin era Es175 and often comments about how hard it is to play. He hides it well, mind.
My ‘68 is not an easy guitar. But then if a guitar is too easy I struggle with that too lol. Maybe the problem is not in fact the guitar?
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Here's some trivia. The dyes for the Gibson finish came from Grand Rapids, MI for many decades. I don't know if they are still the supplier. The binding came from a plastics company outside of Kalamazoo, which has always supplied Heritage. Gibson may get it elsewhere now. I haven't heard either way.
I hear about binding quality and changes in the finishes. Those are possible. But there may be little change in the basics over the years.
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Yes thank you to archtops having floating PU's. Duh. But a lot don't, too... or don't list that they do... and have it "set in".
And to this acoustic voice, ....yes as well. But please consider that my standard is the classical guitar which is very, very, very alive by comparison and not built with feedback issues in mind. Tops can be razor thin. Even from the player's perspective, you hear that, and today luthier's often put a bout on the side where the player can hear it better.
BUT yes, the sound/life is heard much more beyond the player. I think many of us learned this upon being told we were keeping people awake when we thought we were playing ever so softly. Electrics have headphones and classicals have mutes.
And yes, it seems Eastmans are a real and attractively $-wise alternative if you can decode the model numbers and find what you want.
FWIW, Heritage did write back that "we can accommodate your specs". I'd asked about bout sizes, necks and pickups.
Funny, I still like the old Willie Nelson guitar with a hole where if I have that right a Bic pen went through it (or something to that effect - yes, someone will recall that one better than me). Sounded great so Willie kept playing it. My "specs" will never really bother much with cosmetics per se (emphasis mine), inlays, bindings, etc. Good tuners are a worth a $ more and you can feel the difference in your fingers in how they turn, but no extra $'s for the dress-up IMHO. Tone wood choices do have something to do with voicing, but a good luthier's hands, skills, etc. - much more. Luthier's Mercantile International (was Denver but now I think California?) used to have such an inventory of great tone woods that it's pretty wide open.
Nothing happening anytime soon. But do love the feedback (from you guys!). Think maybe the next guitar will be an excuse for a pilgrimage or two to dealers and/or builders. Why not have fun? "Hold that thought." Yep.... for now. Anyway, thanks for the input. Keep it coming.
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Norlin Era
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Well as I have said to each their own! Norlin initiated many cost cutting measures in their production of Thinlines and solid body guitars as well. There are some books about the history of the 335, etc that go into detail about how and the time line.
I also think Ted McCarty had a lot to do with overseeing Gibsons Golden Era designs and workforce of very talented luthiers of the 1950’s. And his attention to detail really shows the difference between instruments made when he was President of Gibson.
And in the Henry J Gibson era some of that returned as well. Especially with Jim Hutchins and Phillip Wharton as well as James Culbertson.
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But despite their best efforts ...
some good guitars slipped out of the Gibson factories during the Norlin era.
As I remember Norlin was starting to figure out what they were doing wrong in the early 80s ...
They went back to mahogany necks on the Les Pauls and other guitars and began the early efforts to build guitars closer to the way they were built in the 50s.
But at some point in the mid 80s fewer and fewer people wanted Les Pauls and 335s and such. Gibson guitars fell out of favor. Fender was struggling, too.
Players wanted pointy guitars and super strats with locking trems and crazy colors and designs on them. Something to match their spandex pants and big hair.
Then Henry J and Slash came to the rescue and revived Gibson and the Les Paul ....
Stevie Ray and the blues revival saved the strat
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My Norlin!!
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archtopheaven: Thanks for the feedback. Literally. Noted. Had similar conversation with Howard at Benedetto.
jads57: Campellone now added to the future candidate list. Beautiful instruments. Seem to have adoring fans, but a bit pricier. Standard model with a carved top is spot on the price of Benedetto's laminated top Bravo.... so not as bad as it might seem for an American build.
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Used is definitely the way to go especially in the current market. If you keep looking here , Reverb, etc. They come up quite often and in various configurations as well. Again best of luck on what works for you!
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I was referring to 2 things. Originally Posted by JWMandy
First is that carved tops vary. My 575 had a top that was very thick and clearly built for higher volume and feedback resistance. That makes it less responsive than the laminate top on my ES-175D VOS. I suspect this is not something that fits your needs. Other models like Sweet 16 are built lighter and have X bracing as far as I know, those might be more appropriate. In short, don't chase solid tops for their own sake.
Second is the neck profile. Even though width would almost definitely be less than the classical neck that you're used to, the round and thick might also interfere with your technique if it is "thumb in the middle". The thinner D shape works better for this. "Medium C" worse. Same models may come with either so check that as well.
The nut width can vary anywhere between 9/16" to 13/16" or more. The latter would be more comfortable again.
Cheers
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The H-575 is definitely built to be amplified, as is the ES-175. A whole lot of the signal has nothing to do with the material of the box. Either is very road-worthy and at home in the studio.
The Sweet 16 is more of a delicate flower.
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The H575 I had was a DH and built like a tank. In SB w/ a bright yellow burst.
$1200, ten years ago.
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Like every other archtop, Heritage prices have doubled several times over. But they were seriously undervalued to begin with.
By the way, big kudos to Mike and team at Heritage. One of the screws to my “h” tailpiece disappeared when the guitar was in for a setup. And screws with those dimensions are unheard of in Europe. I mailed Heritage and they found some matching screws and just fedexed them to me.
To get support for Fender, Gibson, Eastman et al in my country typically you have to go through the distributor and they will charge you.
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Up until about 2 weeks ago, I thought my ES175 was the best Acoustic sounding guitar I had.
For the past 2 weeks I’ve been playing my Golden Eagle almost exclusively. It has a thin top. The clarity, fullness and balance of the guitar is extraordinary. So yesterday, I played my 175 and I felt like I was playing a Les Paul, unplugged. The acoustic sound was barely perceptible. But the one thing I preferred about the 175 over the Golden Eagle was the tightness of the strings and the immediate attack it had. Then I realized, the GE has a finger tailpiece that I adjusted all the way up, with the least string tension. So I tightened all the fingers down halfway.
Now my Golden Eagle plays just as tight and fast as the 175, AND it’s STILL the best acoustic guitar I have.
Bottom line.. I really don’t think most of US know how good we got it.
As I get older and really explore my guitars, I realize how lucky I am.
The masters at Heritage knew a whole lot more about what they were doing then I ever could.
I am glad they stayed behind in Kalamazoo. The kept some of the magic going for at least another 30 years.
Joe D
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JD, it’s so great to hear that you know how good you have it! Originally Posted by Max405
Keep playing! And do a video w/ that new GE when you get a chance!
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