Affordable acoustic archtop for a beginner

[spiro2903]

Hi,

I play an electric guitar, mostly blues/rock, and was looking into getting an acoustic. To do/learn fingerpicking and maybe play some pop songs. But considering I don't really play an acoustic guitar all that much I thought why not get an archtop acoustic. I like jazz and would like to (learn to) play more of it, and have always liked the look and sound of full hollow bodies. I can play some jazz, and some fingerpicking songs on it. I would also like some pickup for occasional playing through an amp. I'll probably use it 80% as an acoustic and 20% as an electric. Because of this I'd like a solid carved top, and nothing mounted on my guitar top. Just some floating pickups. I feel like all that weight of the pickups and electronics can not be good for the acoustic sound.
So far so good, now here comes my issue: I don't know that much about archtops and I don't have that much money So I need some advice on what to get.
I know that the advice is always "Play as many guitars as possible and then decide". Unfortunately I don't live in a place where there are many guitar shops, and any archtops. I will be traveling to some other cities, and with limited time, I would like to know what guitars to try before I go.
My budget is around 1000€, but I could go a bit more if the guitar is really good. I know that that is not a lot of money for an archtop, but right now that is all I can afford. I am not a professional musician and play only for my own enjoyment (and sanity).
I did some research online and these are the options that I found:

• The Loar LH600

Around 1000€, but I would need to add a pickguard with a pickup. I am OK with that. It's supposed to have a fatter and wider (1 3/4) neck, which I like, although I'm not sure about the V shape. Never played a V shape neck.

• D'Angelico Premier EXL1

Also around 1000€ but with a floating pickup. Unfortunately also a laminated top. It looks to have a 1 11/16 neck, and preferably I'd like something wider for fingerpicking.

• Eastman AR805 AR810

2500-3k€ There is also AR610 but that is 2k€ and no pickup. I could add the pickup later on, but 2k€ is still out of my budget.

• Stromberg

Someone mentioned these guitars, but I don't know anything about them. Price, dealers, models...

• Peerless

Supposedly good guitars, but again, don't know anything about the dealers, models, price...

• Musoo guitars

Some Chinese brand, guitars look good, but I've only seen them available through alibaba/aliexpress.

I am also open to used guitars provided I can try them out, or have some ability to return them if they don't feel right.

Am I just looking for too much? Should I forego a solid carved top? ...or just wait for someone to give me an Eastman for free
Any advice is appreciated. Tnx

[JohanAbrandt]

Hi,

I play an electric guitar, mostly blues/rock, and was looking into getting an acoustic. To do/learn fingerpicking and maybe play some pop songs. But considering I don't really play an acoustic guitar all that much I thought why not get an archtop acoustic. I like jazz and would like to (learn to) play more of it, and have always liked the look and sound of full hollow bodies. I can play some jazz, and some fingerpicking songs on it. I would also like some pickup for occasional playing through an amp. I'll probably use it 80% as an acoustic and 20% as an electric. Because of this I'd like a solid carved top, and nothing mounted on my guitar top. Just some floating pickups. I feel like all that weight of the pickups and electronics can not be good for the acoustic sound.
So far so good, now here comes my issue: I don't know that much about archtops and I don't have that much money So I need some advice on what to get.
I know that the advice is always "Play as many guitars as possible and then decide". Unfortunately I don't live in a place where there are many guitar shops, and any archtops. I will be traveling to some other cities, and with limited time, I would like to know what guitars to try before I go.
My budget is around 1000€, but I could go a bit more if the guitar is really good. I know that that is not a lot of money for an archtop, but right now that is all I can afford. I am not a professional musician and play only for my own enjoyment (and sanity).
I did some research online and these are the options that I found:

• The Loar LH600

Around 1000€, but I would need to add a pickguard with a pickup. I am OK with that. It's supposed to have a fatter and wider (1 3/4) neck, which I like, although I'm not sure about the V shape. Never played a V shape neck.

• D'Angelico Premier EXL1

Also around 1000€ but with a floating pickup. Unfortunately also a laminated top. It looks to have a 1 11/16 neck, and preferably I'd like something wider for fingerpicking.

• Eastman AR805 AR810

2500-3k€ There is also AR610 but that is 2k€ and no pickup. I could add the pickup later on, but 2k€ is still out of my budget.

• Stromberg

Someone mentioned these guitars, but I don't know anything about them. Price, dealers, models...

• Peerless

Supposedly good guitars, but again, don't know anything about the dealers, models, price...

• Musoo guitars

Some Chinese brand, guitars look good, but I've only seen them available through alibaba/aliexpress.

I am also open to used guitars provided I can try them out, or have some ability to return them if they don't feel right.

Am I just looking for too much? Should I forego a solid carved top? ...or just wait for someone to give me an Eastman for free
Any advice is appreciated. Tnx

In your price bracket there is only one carved acoustic archtop that I know of and thats the loar. A thick v neck is either love or hate. Other than that its used, either older and beaten or eastman or peerless. Eastman is good stuff and quite lively, peerless some say is not so lively. I was tempted by a peerless imperial once but it didnt happen

[EastwoodMike]

Tried this?

Gretsch G9555 New Yorker Archtop with Pickup review | Guitar.com | All Things Guitar

No idea how accessible in Europe

EMike

[sgosnell]

Shipping from China isn't expensive, because the government heavily subsidizes it. I've bought stuff from China via ebay for under $2, shipping included. Wu/Yolanda Team includes shipping in the price of the guitar. For a thousand euros, you're not likely to get a quality carved top guitar. There is nothing wrong with a good laminated guitar, especially if you're going to amplify it, because of the feedback resistance. If you can find an Eastman for not much more than a thousand, go for it. They're excellent guitars, either solid or laminate.

[rlrhett]

As someone who loves, and has even built, acoustic archtops I feel I should caution you away from them. Martin style acoustic guitars, whether dreadnaught or OM, have been built, copied, refined, reinvented, restored, recorded, and loved for near a century. When you think of the sound of an acoustic guitar you almost certainly are thinking the sound of a flattop acoustic.

Archtops don’t sound the same. Few have really heard an acoustic archtop. They only existed for a few decades before they became principally electric guitars. Many on this forum dislike the acoustic tone and deliberately look for acoustically dead archtops for their “thunk”. They want an electric guitar with a hollow body to color the electric guitar sound, not an acoustic instrument.

I used to help teach a course on building archtops. Despite putting in a year of work and some significant cash, there was a high proportion of students who were dissatisfied when they actually heard their instrument.

Unless you really know you specifically want an acoustic archtop, and are prepared to play many to find one that actually works as an acoustic, I would recommend an OM style guitar. There are many available at all price points and are excellent for finger style blues, folk, country or jazz.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[spiro2903]

@rlhett
Thank you for the advice, but I really do want an archtop. I have heard some in a live setting but at the time wasn't paying much attention on what guitar it was. I have tried a few acoustics, one Martin only (dreadnought) and some Taylors, and a few affordable ones. Honestly, the only one I liked, sound and playability wise, was a Cort L1200P which is supposed to be a copy of an old martin parlor. Not sure of the exact model. Not that the Martins or Taylors are bad, just didn't enjoy the sound that much. I never liked too much bass on an acoustic and always preferred mids and attack. That archtop I heard had that. I do enjoy listening to acoustic archtop jazz, but that is recorded through a mic and certainly doesn't recreate the sound as if I was in the room. Having said that, I can't play that good anyway, and I know I can't get the ultimate guitar for my budget, but I would still like to get one more than I want an acoustic. I recently sold an affordable acoustic I had at home which hung on the wall for years without being touched. it sounded and played OK, but it never got me want to play it. I believe an (nice-ish) archtop would.

@2bornot2bop
If you have a link for a 1000$ Eastman acoustic archtop please send it, I am buying 2 of them
The cheapest one I found is an AR405E which is all laminate and has a P90 bolted to the top. That is 1/2kg on that top


@EastwoodMike
Tnx for that recomendation. I can order that Gretsch from thomann, and it comes with a pickup.
I guess it comes down to the Loar and that Gretsch. Or maybe I could save up for an Eastman, but that means waiting at least a year if not more...

One question, how big of a difference does laminate vs solid top make on an archtop? I see there are some nice Ibanez(es?) for under 1k but all with laminate tops . Only solid ones are japanese made but those are over 2k.

[EastwoodMike]

Spiro,
the luthiers on this forum can answer best

but in very general terms-

Archtops use laminates to reduce feedback in amplified settings. It is a functional design choice. Flat tops do it as a cost saving measure.

If you want to play amplified at loud volume (think horn section)
you may find the bulk of your tone as suggested by an earlier poster will be off the pickup coloured by the hollow construction.

If you wish to play solo, intimate, then as I understand it, the pickup is supporting the tone of the acoustic resonance.

that being said there are shades of grey and not all laminated are equal. Some laminates cost what would be the same or more than other solid tops.

Again, not all solids are created equal. Some are crafted delicately for acoustic resonance. In these cases floating pickups and controls off the top. Plenty of examples where there are top mounted pickups, controls in the body. Thicker plates presumably to have strength to hold the pickups. A stop tail piece also needs either a very thick top or a support block underneath. Horses for courses.

They are very general guidelines and Experienced performers and Luthiers are your best guide. For the budget though you cannot expect stellar results from solids as a norm. Just consider the man-hours involved in any finely tap tuned guitar.

happy hunting

EMike

[Jazz_175]

For me, if a guitar isn’t finished in nitro, it’s not a guitar.

That is a very extreme viewpoint ! Since I do not know much about the finish of guitars, I am wondering if the gibsons 335 and 175 (around 2008 -2010) which I own are finished in nitro or not.

[2bornot2bop]

That is a very extreme viewpoint ! Since I do not know much about the finish of guitars, I am wondering if the gibsons 335 and 175 (around 2008 -2010) which I own are finished in nitro or not.

They absolutely are. There’s nothing extreme about personal taste.

[RJVB]

Archtops don’t sound the same. Few have really heard an acoustic archtop. They only existed for a few decades before they became principally electric guitars.

There are more than enough purely unplugged acoustic archtop recordings on Youtube; most of Rob MacKillop's are for instance (you can clearly distinguish those that aren't).

Spiro: used AR610 archtops can be found around 1600€, or could when I was looking in autumn last year. You could search for a Loar LH-650 (all-carved) or its cheaper brother LH-350 (laminate back). They've been discontinued so you'll have to look in the 2nd hand market, including on national market place platforms like marktplaats.nl or leboncoin.fr . With these you'll have to ask for in-profile pictures to see if the neck angle is correct but if it is you should be getting a lot of guitar for the money. My LH-650 has quickly become my preferred steel-strung guitar, despite that its set-up is still being optimised. I paid 750€ (a bit over 1000€ with the mods I've been doing plus the gig bag I had to buy but the total price shouldn't exceed 1200€).

BTW, the LH-600 has the potential of sounding a bit fuller as an all-acoustic instrument (being a non-cut-away). If the V neck becomes a problem you should be able to find a luthier who will thin it for you (or learn to do it yourself ).

[Doctor Jeff]

I have been impressed with the Loars I have played and would recommend them given your interest in acoustic.

That said, I have a Godin 5th Avenue, and with good strings it will get a very good acoustic tone and is reasonably loud. Plus can be amplified easily (my 5th Ave. has a floater; I've had a P90 Kingpin as well). Given the price and availability it is hardly something you're taking a big risk on.

I would second the recommendations about a good OM style flattop though. I play my Voyage Air OM guitar a lot. It has a solid spruce top. It sounds similar to Taylors in its balanced tone. JMO Martin especially dreadnoughts have a lot of bass and treble without much middle. I haven't played some of their more modern OM styles though.

[spiro2903]

I've seen some nice archtops with pickups mounted ON the archtop. Wouldn't this kill any good acoustic sound? It would probably be better for amplified sound as there would be less feedback (I assume) but wouldn't that weight deaden the acoustic sound?
Comparing apples and oranges, The Loar LH600 vs Eastman 503CE (disregarding the price) I would assume that the Loar would vibrate more and (possibly) sound better acoustically?

I have also seen this Eastman 2005 AR-805CE | Reverb but with shipping and taxes it comes again to 2k€

I've just played Eurojackpot, if I win archtops are on me

[citizenk74]

I've seen some nice archtops with pickups mounted ON the archtop. Wouldn't this kill any good acoustic sound? It would probably be better for amplified sound as there would be less feedback (I assume) but wouldn't that weight deaden the acoustic sound?
Comparing apples and oranges, The Loar LH600 vs Eastman 503CE (disregarding the price) I would assume that the Loar would vibrate more and (possibly) sound better acoustically?

I have also seen this Eastman 2005 AR-805CE | Reverb but with shipping and taxes it comes again to 2k€

I've just played Eurojackpot, if I win archtops are on me

In my experience, you can have a really rich acoustic tone from an archtop, but you can only hear it when someone else is playing it from 15 feet away. Its resonant tones project. However, this works best in a small setting - think parlor music. If you are seeking to play in a band context, especially with horns, drums, and piano, you will need plywood and pickups to hear yourself, let alone be heard by a paying audience. Physics always wins in the end.

[RJVB]

I've seen some nice archtops with pickups mounted ON the archtop. Wouldn't this kill any good acoustic sound?

Kill may be a big word but it definitely won't help. Idem for ports mounted through the top.

The best solution for occasional electrification would be to get a reissue DeArmond pickup with the reissue "monkey on a stick" and control boxes. From what I understand this solution also gives you more control over the PU position.

[spiro2903]

I am a bedroom guitarist. Occasionally I will play with some friends, they play keyboard and guitar. I am the one that always preferred heavier music, think crunchy blues, and they preferred acoustic and softer music, so it works out great for them
Loudness is not a priority (by itself), but dynamics is (and good tone off course). That is one of the things I like with the electric guitars. I can play from very clean to very loud and/or distorted just with the flick of a switch or turn of a knob. Having a top quieter would mean less dynamics as well. Also playing fingerstyle it's nice to have a bit more volume.

[rlrhett]

As long as you know what you are looking for. If you want to play like Rob McKillop (and lord knows I do), an acoustic archtop is the tool. Here’s a beautiful piece he posted a few months ago:

Here are my daily drivers, the one on the left is strung in nylon even:



I just caution you that most archtops are not being built as acoustics. Be patient and try out several. The best sounding acoustics in your range do seem to be the higher end Loar and Eastman’s. However, it is more about finding a gem than selecting a brand and model.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[spiro2903]

Wow. I love it when guitarists play brilliant like that, and make it look effortless. Non guitarists usually don't appreciate the amount of effort and practice that came into it.
And it's an Eastman I know I shouldn't just look at the brand, but they do seem to get good reviews as well. I'll have to find some store that has them and try one out.
Also, are those guitars carbon top? What does carbon sound like on an archtop?
I have always wondered that, not just as a player but as a builder. Not that I am one, I just built one bolt on neck electric, but if I ever get enough spare time I was thinking of building a semi-hollow and maybe an archtop. I enjoy building things. But that is something in a far future.

[2bornot2bop]

This is what you need. $1500 used, and mint, meaning barely used.

[rlrhett]

Yes, carbon fiber. I don’t have a ton of recordings. I’m no Rob McKillop. But here’s a quick video I did a few years back when asked. I also did one with the nylon stung one. Just a recorded with a cheap webcam and no post processing.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Christian Miller]

I've seen some nice archtops with pickups mounted ON the archtop. Wouldn't this kill any good acoustic sound? It would probably be better for amplified sound as there would be less feedback (I assume) but wouldn't that weight deaden the acoustic sound?
Comparing apples and oranges, The Loar LH600 vs Eastman 503CE (disregarding the price) I would assume that the Loar would vibrate more and (possibly) sound better acoustically?

I have also seen this Eastman 2005 AR-805CE | Reverb but with shipping and taxes it comes again to 2k€

I've just played Eurojackpot, if I win archtops are on me

i play a Loar lh600

i would say carved Eastmans are approximately as loud

[spiro2903]

@2bornot2bop That guitar looks amazing. How does it sound, what is it, do you have a link?

@rlrhett Surprisingly it sounds like a guitar From the recording I would say sightly compressed, touch sensitive with a healthy attack and slightly subdued very high treble. Would that be fair assessment when in the room with the guitar?

[RJVB]

Are those Martin Magnifico strings, or some set with just black nylon trebles?

And am I correct that you put nylon or steel strings on the same guitar, is it built lightly enough to be driven by the nylons and still withstand the steel string tension?

[RJVB]

@2bornot2bop That guitar looks amazing. How does it sound, what is it, do you have a link?

My guess would be an AR610CE, the 17" version of the AR605CE.

I can't remember whether you said anything about playing with your fingers vs. with a pick; if the former I would certainly prefer a 16" model (consensus is that they're a bit more versatile too, I think).

Of course I'd always go for a 16" as that's about the largest size I can play in classical position, as I do.

[2bornot2bop]

@2bornot2bop That guitar looks amazing. How does it sound, what is it, do you have a link?

No link, it’s my AR610CE. Mahogany truly makes everything warm if that’s your thing. The Spruce top balances things out with it’s bit of brightness.

Purchased last week from Sound Pure. Heckuva buy.

[2bornot2bop]

I’ve owned most Eastman’s, too many to mention, including the 910CE. This 610 Mahogany backed is louder than I recall the 910 being.

I’ve also owned the Loar LH650, fairly loud, and the 610’s volume is on par with the Loar LH700 I previously owned.

Here’s my 650, featuring a Bartolini 5J floating pickup, and a Cherrywood bridge.