Amp beaming and sound diffusors

[st.bede]

Here are a few questions I would like insight into:

there are two products specifically made to stop amp beaming and create sound diffusion for guitar amps: Deeflexx, and Toneshield.

Deeflexx - Deeflexx

ToneShield - Protect the Tone

They are both relatively expensive and do not address multi speaker amps. They suggest using two of their products for a two speaker amp.

I have feeling that doing that would create more comb filtering as the inner angles send the sound wave directly into each other when using with a dual speaker amp.

I am correct in my thoughts, or am I missing some information?


Why not just use a typical sound diffusor panel at an angle in front of a amp?

Diffusion | Auralex Acoustics

The typical diffusors have multiple angles and I would assume that would help to spread better (smear less) given that each angle would have a different time of reflection.

Once again, am I correct, or am I missing some knowledge?

For an 2x8 cab, maybe place it right in between the two speakers?

(Why 2x8? Because the DV Mark 2x8 cab looks interesting to me, but I read a post here that stated they are very directional)

DV Mark 208 (but I need some advice)

[st.bede]

As always: I appreciate any insights. I certainly have limited knowledge and your insight, even if it is mundane, could point in a direction that I have not thought about. Peace

[EastwoodMike]

I’ve no definitive data to offer but having dug down this rabbit hole before (TGP et al)

I hear of foam dispersion donuts and Webber beam blockers and generally no impact big enough to warrant manufacturers incorporating them into their designs.

I have a 12” combo that has a batten straight down the centreline of the speaker which apparently serves to disrupt the high frequency beam and give perhaps some structural rigidity/protection.

There was a lengthy thread a while back related to speaker cabinet designs and stage volume vs projected volume.

from what I have understood- smaller speaker wider dispersion. More speakers sharper beam. So 8” wide dispersion but volume is a limit. 4x12 stack monster SPL and deep beam projection

open and closed back may make a difference- certainly to frequency response.

Others on this forum are far more knowledgeable than me though. I guess it comes down to what you are after? Stage volume (very wide) or dispersion into an audience (widened beam)

hope this helps?
Emike

[st.bede]

Thanks EastwoodMike. (I was going to write Mr. EastwoodMike, but that reminds me of the third Back To Future movie. I guess that is relevant due to the extreme amp beaming in the first movie).

I never thought about how frequency response of a cab (open vrs closed, and plywood vrs pine) would make a difference in regards to beaming. Like I mentioned, even what could seem mundane to someone might really help me get a bigger picture.

Again thanks

[st.bede]

This might be the mentioned thread:

DV Mark Little Jazz and Volume

[Jonathan0996]

Weber makes some relatively inexpensive beam blockers you can put over your speakers:
https://www.tedweber.com/gadgets/beam-blockers/

However, I've found that extremely focused speaker output is much less of a problem with open back cabinets so I've just used them. Problem solved.

[Hammertone]

Just use one of these cabs:

[st.bede]

Just use one of these cabs:

Thank you

That looks interesting. It looks like in the pic, the cabinet tapers at an angle from the center. I always thought that would be a good idea. I also wonder why there are not more cabs that have the speaker at an slight upward angle.

Who makes those cabs?

[stevo58]

Fender combos - tweed and bf - have a slight upward angle.

Hammertone‘s cab is a copy of a very early Fender design (5b4 „v-front“ tweed Super). Check Weber or Mojotone, one of them should have it.

Edit: nope. I don’t see anyone selling them now, after a quick check.

Steven

[Gitterbug]

Narrow projection and treble beam/spike are different matters. The smaller the speaker, the less pronounced the spike. But yes, two speakers side by side in a closed cab means a narrow projection. How about just a partition wall or sharp V angled thing on the center line?
This should open up the projection and probably enhance the bass end. If you have a large, thin, hard-covered book like an Atlas, try it closed and opened in different angles.

[marcwhy]

Bob Burt used to make the V-angled cabs, but now he just makes effects pedals.

There are certainly builders who make the upward-angled speaker design, including Ashen.

[citizenk74]

On my open-back amps, I tilt the amp back on built-in legs ('64 Vibroverb) or use a device of my own manufacture to achieve the desired dispersion effect. When you are playing crowded dives, the ceiling is your ally. If you are playing more cavernous venues, use the amp as a personal monitor and run a feed (mic, line out, whatever) to FOH and hope for the best (soundpersons sometimes like to play Producer Dude but should not be encouraged to do so. Just the the stage sound, please, but louder ).

[st.bede]

First, I appreciate everyones thoughts and contributions. It helps me see issues from different perspectives and hopefully learn something along the way. (Sometimes it adds fuel to the already burning GAS: scary but fun). Thank you

Narrow projection and treble beam/spike are different matters. The smaller the speaker, the less pronounced the spike. But yes, two speakers side by side in a closed cab means a narrow projection. How about just a partition wall or sharp V angled thing on the center line?
This should open up the projection and probably enhance the bass end. If you have a large, thin, hard-covered book like an Atlas, try it closed and opened in different angles.

That is what I am thinking. Why would I need to spend 600$ to 350$ on two sound diffusors that are just straight angles? (Given that I want to use multiple speaker cabs).

When I think about sound diffusion, I think about complex mathematical designed shapes that when sound hits them, the sound is not just bounced back in one uniformed way, but scattered.

I would think that with any time based effects, having a complex and mathematical appropriate surface bouncing the sound, would lead to less smearing or noticeable comb filtering.

Not to mention that for 60$ Arulex would be happy to sell me one, that would be large enough to sit at angle in front of a 2x12.

However, I do not have enough knowledge of the physics of acoustics, to know if using a typical sound diffusion surface, will not be effective because of it being close to the source of the sound... or, other possible issues I am not thinking about.

This all come down to:

A. Which works better: deeflexx, or toneshield vrs typical sound diffusion products?

B: money (because Atlas can easily hold up the world while bouncing sound).

[Hammertone]

Fender combos - tweed and bf - have a slight upward angle.
Hammertone‘s cab is a copy of a very early Fender design (5b4 „v-front“ tweed Super). Check Weber or Mojotone, one of them should have it. Edit: nope. I don’t see anyone selling them now, after a quick check. Steven

Yeah, the Fender Dual Professional / Super combos from '47-'52 had the split front cab. It was never offered as a separate cab, but Burt and a few others have made them. Mine is made of solid pine with plywood baffles - quite light, but a bit bigger - it's a 1x12" + 1x10" cab instead of the typical 2x10" cab.

[st.bede]

Yeah, the Fender Dual Professional / Super combos from '47-'52 had the split front cab. It was never offered as a separate cab, but Burt and a few others have made them. Mine is made of solid pine with plywood baffles - quite light, but a bit bigger - it's a 1x12" + 1x10" cab instead of the typical 2x10" cab.

That is a cab. I wish I could hear it in person. I have a feeling it is glorious.

[Hammertone]

Yeah, the Fender Dual Professional / Super combos from '47-'52 had the split front cab. It was never offered as a separate cab, but Burt and a few others have made them. Mine is made of solid pine with plywood baffles - quite light, but a bit bigger - it's a 1x12" + 1x10" cab instead of the typical 2x10" cab.

That is a cab. I wish I could hear it in person. I have a feeling it is glorious.

You can hear it live and in person every Sunday night at Grossman's Tavern in Toronto. Come on down!