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Wondering if there is any difference between a Kluson wired ABR-1 Bridge and a Gibson wired ABR-1 Bridge, they look identical to me
Kluson ABR-1 Bridge Wired W/ Brass Saddles W/Hardware (US MADE) - Hardware & Parts from WD Music UK Limited UK
Gibson | ABR-1 Tune-o-matic Bridge - Gold
maybe even the same manufacturer? Would anyone here know?
TIA for any knowlegeable input
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07-02-2022 08:38 AM
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The one with a wire...has a wire
to prevent a saddle from falling out when you break or change strings. It works but is known to rattle/ buzz. No wire is quieter but saddle can fall out. Common practice is to carefully place a drop of wax from a candle where the saddle sits into the bridge to avoid both pitfalls of design.
Last edited by whiskey02; 07-04-2022 at 11:59 AM.
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Graphtech makes some nice tune-o-matics that don't use the wire.
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Originally Posted by whiskey02
The one with a wire...has a wire to prevent a saddle from falling out when you break it change strings. It works but is known to rattle/ buzz. No wire is quieter but saddle can fall out. Common practice is to carefully place a drop of wax from a candle where the saddle sits into the bridge to avoid both pitfalls of design.I actually just want to know to what extent the two products are identical .... Originally Posted by lammie200
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They are both junk. Get a Faber or KMS and never look back.
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vinnyv1k, what is the difference from the Gibson or Kluson to the Faber or KMS bridges? Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
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The Gibson and Kluson are cheap cast pot metal with sloppy threads.
Both the Faber and KMS are made in Germany with your choice of metal with the KMS being CNC machined from a solid billet.
They also come pre notched perfectly for a Gibson.
The KMS is very expensive but worth it.
The Faber is same price as Gibson but far superior in quality.
The plating is flawless on both. Zero slop, no buzz, precise threads on posts. A drop in no fuss replacement.
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OK Vinny, got it, but, are there any tonal advantages. We're talking bridges - my experience tells me that the bridge directly affects tone and response ... and tone is subjective... blah blah blah, but what are your ears telling you? Thanks.
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I have them on ALL my Gibson’s. What my ears tell me is spot on intonation and way better sustain. Adjustment screws turn like butter.
I immediately put a Faber on my new S400. No cheap retaining wire.
Posts are locked in with precision C clips.
The KMS use a exclusive V notch. Kiss My Strings.
Twice the price of the Faber or stock Gibson. IMO worth it.
They offer billet Zamac or brass. The brass is brighter.
Faber’s are solid brass. Both offer different metal saddles.
I like brass only because titanium is very expensive.
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Yes, I have some of the Faber parts and they are very good. I’m old school, I would be looking for the original materials. Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
EDIT: I saw a video where someone dropped a current bridge on a table and it went thunk. A vintage bridge went klang. Does it make a difference? I don’t know, but I was trying to stay close to what they originally used. Do some research, I think the original intonation pieces were plated brass and not some junk.
Also the posts have changed, they were gold plated brass in the old days. So I sent a pair to Mark Campellone to put on my build.
He thought I was nuts! And didn’t think it made a difference. And of course the alloys aren’t the same anyway.
So take all of this with a grain of salt and a healthy dose of skepticism!
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As i have in mind to buy a "spare" bridge to install the six nylon inserts which i still have laying around it probably won't make much difference which one to buy, a Faber looks good to me. They also offer a model with nylon inserts, but it costs 40 Euros more ...
I certainly agree with vinnyv1k about quality issues on original parts. My 2003 L5, the only archtop in my life which i bought brand new, had a bridge whith some screws not really matching the inserts, making it impossible to move a couple of the inserts all the way forth and back. However, when i informed Gibson about the problem i was sent a replacement which was okay.
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The original Gibson ABR-1 was made of quality Zamac alloy.
The new ones are not the same quality period.
Your guitar your choice. I only gave a better option.
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Thanks for that :-). I ordered now a Faber and have in mind to replace the inserts. Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
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This thread exemplifies reason # 846,531 why I love this place! The sheer wealth of knowledge, freely shared!
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I've got no-wire Faber with nylon saddles on my 175. No buzz, no rattle, everything fits well. Happy.
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So, you got a precise answer right off the bat. You're welcome. Originally Posted by JazzNote
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Billet zamac? That sounds a bit weird, because the point of using zamac in the first place is usually because of the good die cast properties of the material. Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
They offer billet Zamac or brass. The brass is brighter.
Has to be really small volumes if milling beats die casting from a price point
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Like I said twice the price for the billet Zamac KMS. Their billet brass version weighs 10 grams more than the Zamac. I have both. The brass version is brighter. Originally Posted by JohanAbrandt
If I remember they were around $200 vs $80 for the Faber USD.
Both are drop in replacements that are superior over other ABR-1’s.
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Kluson make the historic (aluminium) stop tailpieces for Gibson. Maybe they make the bridges too.
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I have had good experience with ABM bridges. Milled too. Different materials. Bell brass heavier than ”normal” junk cast bridges. (Even though I prefer ebony in my jazz guitars.)
ABM Guitar Parts, Tuneomatic Stop-Tail
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I am sure that is fine, but a lot of research has been done , primarily by vintage Les Paul freaks, about the composition of these bridge parts. The original tunematics were a zinc alloy, like Vinnie said. ZAMAC is one variant of that, I'm not sure exactly what zinc alloy was used back then, but Faber makes theirs using a Zinc alloy that is said to be similar. The saddles were plated brass (gold or nickel). So were the original height adjustment posts. The stop tailpiece was aluminum. Originally Posted by Herbie
If you want what was original to the golden age Gibsons, this is a good place to start. LP freaks claim it makes a difference. I changed most of these parts on my LP and it sounds great, but I couldn't tell you if it sounds that much better, it is impossible to AB these since it takes so long to change out the parts.
I would not be looking to change out these parts for titanium or brass unless you are trying to change the sound from original in some specific way. I have never had any luck with all-brass parts, but YMMV. I am just looking for close to original on this stuff, they were good enough for the golden age guitarists, so good enough for me! But for sure, most current guitar parts are cheap pot metal, you can tell when you drop them on a table and they just thud, so they can be improved upon. it may make a difference, may not, and it definitely won't make you play like Wes!
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I doubt modern parts are cheap pot metal. The cost of a zinc alloy is not a driving component of the cost. Quality problems due to casting imperfections is. The days when it made sense to save on the material is gone, and good zinc alloys are not very expensive Originally Posted by bluejaybill
I am sure that is fine, but a lot of research has been done , primarily by vintage Les Paul freaks, about the composition of these bridge parts. The original tunematics were a zinc alloy, like Vinnie said. ZAMAC is one variant of that, I'm not sure exactly what zinc alloy was used back then, but Faber makes theirs using a Zinc alloy that is said to be similar. The saddles were plated brass (gold or nickel). So were the original height adjustment posts. The stop tailpiece was aluminum.
If you want what was original to the golden age Gibsons, this is a good place to start. LP freaks claim it makes a difference. I changed most of these parts on my LP and it sounds great, but I couldn't tell you if it sounds that much better, it is impossible to AB these since it takes so long to change out the parts.
I would not be looking to change out these parts for titanium or brass unless you are trying to change the sound from original in some specific way. I have never had any luck with all-brass parts, but YMMV. I am just looking for close to original on this stuff, they were good enough for the golden age guitarists, so good enough for me! But for sure, most current guitar parts are cheap pot metal, you can tell when you drop them on a table and they just thud, so they can be improved upon. it may make a difference, may not, and it definitely won't make you play like Wes!
The name pot metal comes from the pot where all kinds of cuts and slagg ended up before it was melted and used for a cheap run. Since composition is unknown you cant use detailed dies, difficult to plate, and if you want precision you need to machine it after.
The mazak/zamak alloys where created because only by creating a known and stable composition can you expect repeatable results which is the foundation for quality improvement.
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What I like about the Faber and KMS is they notch them first then plate them. The notches are spot on. No fuss drop in replacement.
Also the notches are plated. You don’t have to cut through the plating.
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