NGD x 2

[Marty Grass]

There is a mystique about upper end factory guitars. Gibson has its share, including the Citation, the JS, the Kalamazoo Award, and the LeGrand. Heritage had a couple. So did the old Epiphone and Guild plants.

I can speak about what happened at Gibson and Heritage. The best luthiers had the assignments of these high end archtops for carving the necks and the front and back plates. They also chose the woods from a pre-sorted stack of "ultra" billets and they applied the bracing. Some got tap tuning. So they could apply their craft. On the other hand, time was money. They had to find the point when the work was "good enough" and move to the next piece. Also, each of the higher end employees had different ways in carving and trimming the bracing.

The companies expected a certain productivity, so there was a reasonable amount of time allocated per instrument but not an infinite amount. Perfection could not be the goal and probably could not be defined even.

Aaron Cowles built many Gibson F5s. He assembled them at his home shop being paid per piece by Gibson. He received factory wages practically speaking, which may have been $75 or so per instrument. (I don't recall now.) He was fast and very good. Gibson made a nice profit on them, and they are fine instruments. He may well have built this one.



The guitars that really got virtually unlimited time allocated to them are few. The Citation, Kalamazoo Award, the American Eagle, and a few special made Heritage Johnny Smiths for individuals. Heritage did this for the ghost built D'Angelicos and Gretsch Eldorados. I'm sure there are other examples of limited series and one offs from Gibson and Heritage where production time was not capped. Here's an example.

Heritage Sweet 16 American Eagle Maudie Moore Liberty Bell | Reverb


My sense is that small luthier shops don't have the same time pressures and have more consistent builds. Benedetto comes to mind. I have several Thorntons, and all of these are perfect.

In the performer's world, a stock ES-175, the L-5, a GJS, etc. will be more than 99% of what commercial listeners will fully appreciate. We are the harshest judges.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I hate to say it, but most of the folks who own these incredible guitars, do a very bad job maintaining them.

Sadly, most of the folks who own any guitar do a very bad job maintaining it. The total cost of ownership goes far beyond the purchase price and includes a healthy dose of responsibility along with maintenance and repairs.

[Stringswinger]

I have played great guitars and mediocre guitars that came from the big guitar factories and I have played great and mediocre guitars that came from individual luthiers and small guitar workshops. Every piece of wood is different and until they are built, there is no way to tell if they are going to be mediocre. The mediocre ones to me are probably just fine to a less discerning player and so there is no reason for the mediocre ones to be withheld from the market after being built. What is a player to do? My answer is to buy and sell several instruments until you find the one(s) that inspire your playing.

[Archie]

Re: post# 21 - How do these sound above the 12th fret plugged in? Do the inconsistent acoustic responses track amplified? TIA.

I'm going to do sound checks early next week and will let you hear. Good point to raise though as the issue might not translate. I find that it usually does but worth a go.

[Archie]

By no means an expert here. I owned a 1976 GJS and 3 Heritage JS’s.
After I got rid of the utterly ridiculous flat wide Norlin frets and replaced the toxic pickguard, the GJS became an incredible guitar. The only floater guitar that ever rivaled a built in humbucker guitar when played electrically. The Heritage JS guitars were all AMAZING. Archie, NONE of them fell apart soundwise after the 10th fret. Sounds to me like you played one with a setup issue. Remember, the last Gibson JS was made in 89 (I think). So the oldest one is 33 years old. I hate to say it, but most of the folks who own these incredible guitars, do a very bad job maintaining them.
In fact, that was Johnnys pet peeve about the guitar that bared his name. It absolutely HAD TO Play/sound the same in the upper register than it did in the lower region. Mr. Moonlight in Vermont would not have been happy any other way.
I always said all of my HJS’s made a sound like no other when I slid my finger down the D string. All 3 of them. They were GREAT guitars.
The GJS was the greatest guitar I ever owned. I had to sell it in order to take care of my family. The absolute Angel who owned that guitar for over 40 yrs CHERISHED that guitar. It was in amazing condition.
All of my Ex HJS’s are in great homes right now. Right where they belong.
I wish I was able to actually hear my JS’s acoustically. That’s the problem with acoustic archtops. You really can’t hear them when you are playing them. Unless you can remove your own head and put it on a chair in front of you.. I haven’t figured out how to do that, yet..
JD

Good point about setup etc.. I'm going to give the guitars a going over early next week and record them all. We can have some fun A/B'ing them.
In the end there doesn't have to be a winner or loser.

I read recently that the JS wasn't really supposed to be an acoustic guitar. The top was carved slightly thicker for amplification and in spite of that it still had a very good acoustic tone. I think The Heritage holds true to that fundamental and so does the original Guild Johnny Smith.
The Benny JS seems to be doing it own thing and perhaps prefers to be purely an acoustic Archtop.

"The Smith gave archtop players an instrument with the best-quality amplification without visibly altering its acoustic persona. The Smith’s Venetian (rounded) cutaway was an acoustic feature, as Gibson’s electric versions of the L-5 and Super 400 had a Florentine (pointed) cutaway during this period. And it sported an acoustic player’s traditional ebony, height-adjustable bridge rather than the Tune-O-Matic on the L-5CES and Super 400CES. But the top is slightly thicker than the standard Gibson archtop, so despite all appearances, the Smith really was designed for electric play"- George Gruhn
George Gruhn