The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    Hi all,

    I’d be grateful for some advice. I have a Peerless Martin Taylor Virtuoso and also a decent Epiphone Joe Pass Emperor.

    I currently have a Roland Cube 80x and a Blug Amp1 and Nanocab. I’m looking to improve my jazz tone particularly for solo guitar so a clean almost acoustic sound. I’m not happy with the Amp1 for this but it is good for other gigs with a solid body direct into a PA.

    So would a Mark Little Jazz 60 head work into the Nanocab which may be the cheaper option for me. Or would another cab be more suitable in which case I’d get the Mark Little combo as it has an XLR out I believe. Or maybe I’ll consider a Mambo amp as I live in the UK or an AER. Other option is to go direct somehow as per Martin Taylor but think he also mics his guitar and blends the two.

    Any ideas appreciated.

    Thanks

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    I don't know about that cab choice, do have experience with DV Mark. My DV Mark Micro 50 CMT is one of the 3 amps that sound best with my two Guild archtops (with Franz p/us.) I use it with an oversize 1x12 pine cab, open back, ceramic speaker.

    The other best sounding amps:

    Evans E150 1x15 solid state
    Fender '65 Princeton Reverb RI, with speaker change.

  4. #3

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    Since you live in the UK a Mambo amp would be your best bet - you might even have the chance to try before buying which the rest of us cannot ...

  5. #4

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    You wrote that you are looking for a "clean almost acoustic sound".
    My Mambo 10 provides a clean, but not really acoustic sound. I would rate it somewhere between AER and Polytone. I like the Mambo for giving my archtop a tight and fat sound but not as dark as a Polytone.
    For a really acoustic sound I would tend to an AER.
    But for you in UK it should be possible to check out a Mambo.
    Last edited by bluenote61; 06-14-2022 at 11:12 AM.

  6. #5

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    Roland JC-40?

  7. #6

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    TC electronic Bam200?

  8. #7

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    Give a Bugera Ac60 a try. It is very cheap, and essentially an Aer clone. A number of friends gig with it, great value acoustic amp.

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzdod
    Hi all,

    I’d be grateful for some advice. I have a Peerless Martin Taylor Virtuoso and also a decent Epiphone Joe Pass Emperor.

    I currently have a Roland Cube 80x and a Blug Amp1 and Nanocab. I’m looking to improve my jazz tone particularly for solo guitar so a clean almost acoustic sound. I’m not happy with the Amp1 for this but it is good for other gigs with a solid body direct into a PA.

    So would a Mark Little Jazz 60 head work into the Nanocab which may be the cheaper option for me. Or would another cab be more suitable in which case I’d get the Mark Little combo as it has an XLR out I believe. Or maybe I’ll consider a Mambo amp as I live in the UK or an AER. Other option is to go direct somehow as per Martin Taylor but think he also mics his guitar and blends the two.

    Any ideas appreciated.

    Thanks
    Whatever amp you chose, you may want to make a multi-band graphic equalizer a part of you signal chain. This can be helpful in crafting the most detailed "acoustic" sound.

  10. #9

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    The DV Mark Little Jazz has XLR and 1/4 inch speaker outputs.

    I don't know for certain that the electronics are the same as the 60 watt head but the specs look like it.

    There would be a decision to make about whether to get the combo or the head. If you got the combo and use it as a head, you carry an extra 11 lbs. It's about a 10.5 inch cube. But, then you've got the option not to bother with a cabinet, and a lot of people, myself included, think the Little Jazz sounds great.

  11. #10

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    My local pub has decided to buy a Fender tonemaster twin. Played a gig with it Sunday, and that thing is badass.

    a bit heavier than an AER or mambo… but not THAT bad :-)

    the only pro I know who plays a Little Jazz seems to hate it. But then he is quite a entertainingly negative character haha… It’s his thing. I thought it was quite good.

  12. #11

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    Mambos seem highly rated. My impression seem quite ‘flat’ and characterless to me which is a actually good thing if you have a characterful guitar like my ES175, which doesn’t get along with all amps… as I understand it you can get them voiced differently according to preference.

    AERs can sound great with certain guitars. I like them for a more acoustic tone unsurprisingly. I have an alpha but wish I’d got a compact 60 tbh

    I have a Princeton reverb 65 it’s great, but I’m not taking that on the tube. A brilliant practice and recording amp to make it giggable as a jazz amp you’ll need to swap out the crappy stock speaker for something better which will cost you 5 minutes and under £100. I don’t like it with every guitar tho.

    I played through a Fender Hot rod the other day. Those things impress me tbh. Heavy though, and the volume control is a troll.

    Henricksens seem great. I’ve not used on much myself but the one time I did I was impressed.

    ATM I use a quilter tone block US with a few choices of small toob speaker mostly for sheer portability. This sounds actually pretty damn good but I could use a little more headroom on the little one. The big speaker sounds less ‘smooth’ but plenty of volume.

  13. #12

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    Depends on how loud you want to play. If you're looking for an amp with a more "acoustic" tone, I'd recommend getting something "extended range" with a tweeter. Also, a warning: If you like onboard reverb, DV's is nasty (imo, very metallic sounding). Have you considered a real acoustic amp, like Fishman (or something similar)? Also, with a two channel acoustic amp (and a mic) you can talk to your audience, introduce tunes, etc.

    Loudbox Acoustic Amplifiers | Fishman

    Gear | Reverb


    Fender's acoustic amps are pretty reasonably priced, but I've never tried one, so I don't know.

    Gear | Reverb


    For more acoustic tone, I use Genzler or Henriksen, but they may be well out of your desired price range:

    Gear | Reverb
    Last edited by Woody Sound; 06-16-2022 at 06:59 AM.

  14. #13

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    Yes Mambo amps are a bit of a thing here ; you see a few pop up s/h, which suggests they are not for everyone, but generally they are highly rated. They can sound flat, by design ( middle channel) but you also have an fender AB763 tonestack, which works very well with gtrs that sound honky though the flat channel. It's also helps that they have lots of power. Most people buy the 10", but I prefer the 8" for portabilty and a more mid- focused sound. It's more than loud enough @ 200W/ 400w with ext. They are expensive, though. The competition at that level might be the Hendriksen Blu/ Bud, but they are even more expensive here and less powerful.

    The TC BAM amp does a reasonable job with a speaker cab, if you don't need much headroom.

  15. #14

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    Hi Jazzdod welcome to the forum.

    I think it's quite difficult to find the right amp, and guitar. these are the amps I have tried and my thoughts.

    I had a little Jazz and really did not like that at all.

    I have also had a couple of Mambo amps a 10, and 8, both were the wedge design and quite light weight (the 10 is 8.1KG and the 8 is 7.2KG). I think they are really good amps, but I ended up selling them they were just not for me.

    I also had a Cornell Romany 12" 10w tube amp, it was a wonderful thing when it was working.

    I have now have a "Session" Blues Baby 22w, it is reasonably light weight (11kg) loud enough for the group I play with. It gives that tube amp feel without the hassle of the tubes, and most of all I like the sound I am getting with my ES175.


    Andyb

  16. #15

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    Yeah I don’t get the session love. I used to play through one of those every month at a gig (it was the house backline) and could never dial in a tone I liked. I ended up using the Roland Keyboard amp with a preamp instead. But loads of players seem to swear by them, so maybe it’s just me lol.

    My current rig is about 2kg… so that’s a lot to beat in terms of weight. If I wanted a tube amp sound in a 10kg package I’d get a tonemaster deluxe. Or more likely get the twin and use it for driving gigs as it weighs the same as my princeton lol. So impressed with how it handled on the gig the other day.

    so to the op I think you have to decide whether you are in the Polytone, fender or acoustic amp paradigm when choosing a jazz amp; it’ll help narrow down the options a lot as will budget and portability. (10 years ago it was what giggable amp can I carry on the tube? AER was the only sensible choice. Now there are options galore even for that.)
    Last edited by Christian Miller; 06-16-2022 at 01:58 PM.

  17. #16

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    Thanks for the welcome and all your suggestions. Really much appreciated It’s difficult to decide yes but I’ll give all these ideas some serious thought. All the best folks.

  18. #17

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    I really like the Fender Tone Master series amps. I have the Deluxe Reverb version and love it. Outstanding jazz amp.

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by jumpnblues
    I really like the Fender Tone Master series amps. I have the Deluxe Reverb version and love it. Outstanding jazz amp.
    I was quite dubious about the Tonemaster amps initially, I had not had any really positive experiences with modelling amps. They are terrific in my opinion. I've used both the TM Twin, and I personally own a TM Deluxe. The firmware update that removes the 'bright cap' is worth doing too.

    The other amp I really like is the Quilter Aviator Twin Ten. They're no longer produced but they have serious headroom and volume, on par with a Fender Twin, but in a cabinet slightly smaller than a Deluxe Reverb.

  20. #19

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    I use a Quilter Toneblock 202 with the Nanocab and love the combination, it works for blues, jazz, rock, most of the time with an ES-335. Strictly home-use though, no experience playing live. I used to have an Amp1 and actually quite liked it, but in the end decided to replace it with a Quilter and an HX Stomp.

  21. #20

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    I have a mtitude of Amps

    *Ameson RS 120
    *DV mark Little Jazz
    * Prodipe Natural 6....(Google them)
    * DV mark Greg Howe head 250w
    * Mambo Head...(early version circa 2011)
    * Home made 2x10 cab with eminence beta's.
    *1x12 heavy pine cab with JBL k120 16ohm
    * 1x12 Hot Rod Deluxe G Benson edition
    *Quilter 202 Overdrive head...(being delivered today)
    *Fender ssc122 cab with 12inch Eminence Canabis Rex
    *1x12 cab being made for me with a 10inch Eminence lil buddy.

    My go to is the Prodipe as its hifi like quality is easy just to plug into and play. You can get a decent sound instantly.

    The DV mark little jazz combo is a very coloured sound. After 5 years, I tend to use it less and less.

    The Mambo with the 2x10 cab is just awesome. I cannot reccomend him enough.

    The Quilter is something I am very much looking fwd to trying out with different cabs.

    All of them are decent in different ways I suppose.

    I am selling the Ameson by the way.

    Hope some of that was Informative or helpful.
    BP

  22. #21

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    Hello and welcome..

    If you are going to augment the sound with an acoustic pickup or microphone that is a different kettle of fish. Preferably Schertler fish but that's a different discussion.

    If you just want a great jazz guitar sound from a humbucker equipped archtop, IMHO, the Fender Tonemaster will be inspiring in both the practice room and on stage. Warm. Clear. Clean. I also like Quilters in both construction and sound but when considering the amp head format versus a rig with more speaker real estate, an open back cabinet, and the convenience (and manageable weight) of a modern combo like the Fender, the latter can make a lot of sense.
    Last edited by Spook410; 06-23-2022 at 12:57 PM.

  23. #22

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    No mention of budget. My own unschooled view is that budget matters, but sometimes it can prove cheaper in the long run to pay up for a really good amp rather than end up with a collection of budget amps you don't like. Every time I've tried to save money in the short run I've ended up spending more in "education" than I might have by biting the bullet initially and buying "the best" whatever (applies to homes, cars, guitars, etc.). You'll never regret reaching for the highest quality. Even if you change your mind, you can still reasonably trade out. I found a "pre-owned" Henriksen running around $500 US. I'm sure that for someone, there was something wrong with it, yet I'm quite happy with it. Some folks won't buy used/pre-owned... and I get it. But getting the right amp used might be a better deal than your 3rd or 4th choice new - especially if it doesn't scratch "the itch" for the great tone you're after.

    Somewhat off topic, as a guy who recently switched into an archtop from a classical and from classical rep to jazz, I'm still too new at this to know whether the classical sense of tone plays a role. In CG, your tone is much dependent on your technique and attack. No amplification to adjust the "signal" but simply a box. You can work a long time to get that sound right (okay, maybe a month or two)... but once you lock it in, it's cool.

    Much as I'm sure amplification changes a lot of that I think, I can't imagine that attack and technique don't still play some role. Just my unschooled opinion. That said, if you've got that nailed to your satisfaction, and the only things holding you back are possibly that you're playing a kazoo through a cellophane wrapped comb, the only technique that matters is how you can plug into someone else's amp (OPG - other people's gear). Your ears know a lot more than you think. Listen to them. However, I find my mind has ...well, it seems to have a mind of its own, and it's better connected to my wallet than it should be. Just saying.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by JWMandy
    No mention of budget. My own unschooled view is that budget matters, but sometimes it can prove cheaper in the long run to pay up for a really good amp rather than end up with a collection of budget amps you don't like. Every time I've tried to save money in the short run I've ended up spending more in "education" than I might have by biting the bullet initially and buying "the best" whatever (applies to homes, cars, guitars, etc.). You'll never regret reaching for the highest quality. Even if you change your mind, you can still reasonably trade out. I found a "pre-owned" Henriksen running around $500 US. I'm sure that for someone, there was something wrong with it, yet I'm quite happy with it. Some folks won't buy used/pre-owned... and I get it. But getting the right amp used might be a better deal than your 3rd or 4th choice new - especially if it doesn't scratch "the itch" for the great tone you're after.

    Somewhat off topic, as a guy who recently switched into an archtop from a classical and from classical rep to jazz, I'm still too new at this to know whether the classical sense of tone plays a role. In CG, your tone is much dependent on your technique and attack. No amplification to adjust the "signal" but simply a box. You can work a long time to get that sound right (okay, maybe a month or two)... but once you lock it in, it's cool.

    Much as I'm sure amplification changes a lot of that I think, I can't imagine that attack and technique don't still play some role. Just my unschooled opinion. That said, if you've got that nailed to your satisfaction, and the only things holding you back are possibly that you're playing a kazoo through a cellophane wrapped comb, the only technique that matters is how you can plug into someone else's amp (OPG - other people's gear). Your ears know a lot more than you think. Listen to them. However, I find my mind has ...well, it seems to have a mind of its own, and it's better connected to my wallet than it should be. Just saying.
    you are 100% right - although the nature of that technique changes the more amplification your use, so as a player who used to play a lot of acoustic and quietish trad archtop stuff and is coming back to a more electric approach I find myself having to adjust my technique in particular from what I would do on an acoustic guitar. Things like open strings ringing in sympathy with stopped strings which is a nice thing on fingerpicked acoustic become a nuisance on electric for example. I also find electric really unforgiving in terms of evenness and articulation.

    This is stuff that really comes out at gig volume; if you practice with your amp quietly you can fool yourself!

    That’s why it’s important to practice plugged (or on headphones for practicality’s sake and without reverb if you are really hardcore lol)

    The acoustics of a room, ambience of speaker cabs and electronic reverb etc do a lot to smooth out and help with the unforgiving magnifying effect electric guitar has to technique (which is why all the Instagram widdlers smother their sound in reverb and delay haha), but by practicing in the most unforgiving circumstances you can learn not to rely on them even if you add a bit of reverb or IR or whatever live or to recordings.

    i suppose the thing is that the sound of an electric jazz box or Es335 through an amp (even a Fender) close miced or Di’d is so flat and sort of unmusical compared to a good acoustic guitar in a room (or tbh even a mediocre one), it actually takes the acoustic box of the speaker cab and the room itself to make it sound attractive.

    Of course with jazz boxes you also get some acoustic tone mixed in which is really lovely but disappears in a live band context in my experience - although in this case the mix may demand a different sound than you would dial in at home.

    I mean I suppose the equivalent is the sound you get out of a nylon string piezo bridge pickup …. Through an AER and mixed in with the guitars acoustic sound it sounds pretty good! Coming back at you through a stage monitor, or straight into a computer… not so much… but in a band mix, might work great…
    Last edited by Christian Miller; 06-24-2022 at 02:54 AM.

  25. #24

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    For what it's worth, I've had the quilter 202 overdrive for a few days now and its quite a package. Still many days of fiddling ahead.

    Also, I am based in Bournemouth. You are more than welcome to pop over and try any or all of my amps over an afternoon.

    See my reply above for the amps I have. Quite a few.

    Kettle is always on.

    BP

  26. #25

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    Electric guitar is about the relationship between the fingers, guitar and amp. Another way of stating that, you play the amp as much as the guitar.