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Hi
I'm considering buying a good acoustic guitar that will have multiple purposes, but that would give a nice tone for jazz chords and solo playing with friends.
They essentially have Gypsy "manouche" guitars, but I don't want to go that route. I don't really like to play on these, and find them, while very good instruments, kind of one trick ponys.
I'm not really interested in archtop acoustics like the Loar offerings.
I've searched a bit and the consensus seems to be that all mahogany guitars like Martin 000-15 are well suited.
Maybe a Taylor in the 314 series would be good.
The Martin OMC 16 is all mahogony with a cutaway.. I'd like a cutaway to reach the high notes easily.
Eastman offerings seem very good, in the OM category.
What I would like is a small body, cutaway, and 24.75 scale length.
For the tonewoods, it seems that rosewood back and sides scoops the mids and has overtones that aren't suited for a smokey mid range sound.
Would you have any suggestions?
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06-12-2022 06:01 AM
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I think you are on exactly the right track. The consensus seems to be that mahogany will generally enhance the fundamental, which can be helpful with complex four-note jazz chords, while rosewood will provide some beautiful shimmering overtones that might work against that goal. The Martin OMC 16 would be a great choice, imho.
I have a Martin D-28 that I love dearly, but when I pretend that I can really play jazz, I reach for my Gibson Roy Smeck Stage Deluxe reissue, a deep-bodied guitar with mahogany back and sides. It is not a cutaway though, and once every hundred years or so I wish it was. ;-)
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Thanks for your reply!
Yes this is what I read, mahogony has a more "fundamental" voicing, which I understand is the contrary of overtones.
Now I'm open to every suggestion concerning the top, sitka, spruce, hog? (i'm definately fixed on mahogony back and sides i think)
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I made a mistake in my previous post, it's the OMC 15.
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I've been impressed by the unique feel, sound and character of the Guild M240 series. This Concert (like an OM) sized guitar has an arched mahogany back and a spruce top. It's warm, balanced and has a clarity in bringing out voices if you're a chord melody player. I like the size. Recommended and worth trying out in your search.
A few years ago I wanted to get an archtop sound from a flat top guitar and I built a 15.5" maple spruce guitar with an x braced back and a double x top. I was very pleased with the results and if there are any luthiers out there, I'd encourage them to give a try to double x bracing on a flat top, it's become my swiss army knife guitar. It's now on the bench being refitted for 7 strings, which is my preferred configuration these days.
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And despite what I said upthread, Eric Skye chose cocobolo for the back and sides of his Santa Cruz signature. Where that falls in the tonewood spectrum, I don't know.
OO~Skye | Santa Cruz Guitar Company
And the Guild that Jimmy mentioned sounds extremely intriguing to me as well. If I was in the market, I would definitely try to audition one of those.
Good luck whatever you decide!Last edited by Flat; 06-12-2022 at 09:04 AM.
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Jimmy Blue Note I'm also interested in the Guild M240
I think this is the Korean one?
I've got to search a bit.
Flat, maybe Cocobolo is like koa?
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Almost exactly a year ago, I was on a search similar to yours: a small bodied acoustic that could serve multiple purposes, including jazz chord solos. Initially, I was pretty sure I wanted a mahogany back & sides guitar, or even an all mahogany model for similar reasons (more fundamentals, fewer overtones). I made an appointment at a nice guitar shop in Connecticut while I was on a trip up there (Acoustic Music in Guilford). Beforehand I explained what I was interested in, including the fact that I was relatively new to the acoustic flat-top market, and that I wanted to try a nice variety of woods, sizes, builders and scale lengths. They accommodated me nicely and just left me alone in a room with a bunch of really nice guitars for an hour or so. I ended up buying a Sitka/Indian Rosewood Collings 002H (small body) that I've been thrilled with ever since. It turned out, for me, the overtone vs. fundamental issue didn't push me to the mahogany version.
Long-winded way of saying if you have the opportunity to demo a variety of guitars against one another, your preferences really come into focus.
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I am the lucky owner of a mahogany/adirondack spruce Guild Orpheum slope shoulder dreadnought (US Custom Shop, sadly no more produced), and it has a lot a overtones, at least as much as a rosewood instrument, and despite this it's a joy to play jazz with.
If you play with gypsy guitar equipped friends, you will need a powerful guitar...
The best way to go is to try as much different guitars as you can!
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Where in France are you? Maybe have a chat with Fred Kopo (www.kopo.fr)? He also builds archtops and some of his flattops at least look appropriately for jazz
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I like playing jazz on my Martin 00028, but not my D28. I think it’s the scale length difference that is key. I have no problem with rosewood overtones on that guitar, it is warm and round. Btw, research cocobolo , I think it is very hard and similar to rosewood.
Having said that, I don’t find Martins and Martin style guitars conducive to playing jazz. The necks are not shaped that way, action is higher than an arch top, and I tend to use them more for other guitar styles. A good jazz guitar should almost play like an electric, and that’s what my acoustic arch tops feel like to me. Jazz is hard enough without fighting the guitar! If you are looking for a jazz arch top you might try to find a modern build that plays well for that style.
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Thanks for the many answers, that makes a lot of information, and obviously my best bet is to try a bunch of different guitars.
Playability with good action, short scale length, cutaway, and body on the small side are the most important criterias for me.. Maybe more than the tonewoods.
I'm stuck on this one, but it will be very hard to test it
Eastman E20 00SS/v Antique Sunburst - The Fellowship of Acoustics
I will for sure not choose a Gypsy guitar or an archtop.. My style of playing is not exclusively jazz, far from it. I try to play my style of jazz, but a lot of other things.
And I don't master Gypsy guitar at all, I just like to play chords and melodies in a jazz feel.
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Something to consider if you can find one to try:
322ce 12-Fret Tasmanian Blackwood Acoustic-Electric Guitar | Taylor Guitars
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Wow I was considering that exact model also!
Well, I've considered a lot of options before opening this subject, and this Taylor has caught my intetest.
12 fret with cutaway, it just appeals to me a lot.
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What would be the advantages of a 12 fretter vs 14 fret? They it as a "bold" feel, not sure what it means.
I love the slotted headstock, but it mustn't detract from the most important aspects, which are tone and playability...
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I have the non-cutaway version of the Taylor 322. The placement of the bridge with a 12 fretter gives it a tonal difference from the 14 fretter. A little more mellow with a slight emphasis in the lower mids. The blackwood back and sides provide a little more punch than an all mahogany version. This model is often called the least "Taylor" sounding Taylor because it leans more toward a warmer tone than most Taylors. The typical Taylor neck shape is pretty well know for how easy it is to play. I ended up with a 322 because I wanted a smaller body guitar that didn't sound like a typical flattop. Hope you can get your hands on one to see what you think.
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I can guess you can adapt any acoustic guitar to playing chords and melodies with a "jazz feel", from parlour-sized to OMs to dreadnoughts to super jumbos.
If you are going to sit in with your mates with the manouche guitars, anything smaller than an OM/Small Jumbo may be drowned out by the manouche guitars. I think you have described a maple-bodied guitar with a spruce top, something in the vein of a Gibson J185 or a Froggy Bottom M with mahogany or maple back and rim.
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I’ve shared how pleased I am with my Waterloo WL-S for jazz sounds before. Spruce too, cherry back and sides. I’m using TI plectrums. My only caveat is I bought it numerous price increases ago. There’s probably better value out there but it’s a great sounding little guitar.
FWIW I also considered the WL-14 Scissortail when auditioning guitars. The maple sides and back gave it a pleasing albeit very different sound. I see these used more often than the WL-S.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I think of Koa as Mahogany that went to college. Strong fundamentals with a little more bass and treble. Here’s Mimi Fox on what I think is a Taylor K14, Spruce on Koa. If you search on YouTube you can hear her demoing jazz tunes on a variety of flat tops.
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Mimi Fox plays beautifully on her Taylor!
As a somewhat lesser player than Ms Fox, and owner of a Taylor 324, I would not reach for that guitar to play jazz.
It obviously can be done, but the action of a flat top is not optimal, and the overtone series do not lend themselves well to complex harmonies.
That said, it would be a better choice than any Martin I have. (00-15M and D-35)
Just get out there and play as many guitars as possible. Do not believe what old fogeys on the internet say....
Good luck!
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I think that you meant a Froggy Bottom Model K and not an M. The K is J-185 sized. Michael actually designed the body shape of the K after a 1920s Loar designed L-5.
Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
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I have plans for an acoustic based on similar needs, assuming a budget of max. $3k. Mahogany back/sides or all mahogany seem to be the consensus for jazz. Here were the candidates (none had cutaways):
Several possible Waterloo models (Julian Lage plays one on World's Fair)
Iris OG model - fairly new brand, several cool demos on the Tube. Beautiful guitar (to my taste). Reasonably priced, very high quality.
Martin 15 series and 00-18 and CEO models.
Gibson L-00
As you're in France, I was told by a pro, here in Switzerland, that the Dupont models ending in -28, costing around 2.4 K euros are an exceptional value. Don't know if easily available in stores or need to be ordered.
Larrivée and Furch also have excellent reputations.
Eastman also a possibility.
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Tone: 12 Frets vs 14 Frets - The Acoustic Guitar Forum Originally Posted by Jx30510
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Thanks for all the advice. The options are numerous, and not easy to make a choice.
As always, I would like to try all models that I've targeted, but that will be impossible where I live.
m_d you mentionned the Gibson L00. For whatever reason I took it out of the list, maybe I should reconsider it.
And DUPONT models ending by 28, I haven't heard of them. I'll investigate.
Thanks for the link 12 fret vs 14 fret
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All mahogany is where it's at.
Scale length less important than body size. Dreadnought too big, scoops the mids...000/OM or smaller and you are good to go.
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