Flat top acoustic guitar suited for jazz (tonewoods)

[m_d]

Thanks for all the advice. The options are numerous, and not easy to make a choice.
As always, I would like to try all models that I've targeted, but that will be impossible where I live.

m_d you mentionned the Gibson L00. For whatever reason I took it out of the list, maybe I should reconsider it.
And DUPONT models ending by 28, I haven't heard of them. I'll investigate.
Thanks for the link 12 fret vs 14 fret

I think that's the model. 1930s origin. Marc Ribot has an old one (the L-00 or similar model). I heard him play it live at a Diana Krall show, it sounded fabulous (miked on stage, no internal electronics of course).

[RJVB]

You didn't really say why you don't want to consider archtops. I'm asking because for a second I confounded the Gibson L00 with the L1, a round-hole archtop. From what I understand they sit between flattops and f-hole archtops, sound-wise.

I like the sound (and looks) of all-mahogany guitars but associate a hog top more with folk music. The mid/low registers may correspond to jazz requirements but I'd be surprised if the trebles are "juicy sweet" enough - I'd expect them to by dry.

Maybe you should try a Seagull mini-jumbo, in line with the argument above that a big instrument is needed to fit in with gypsy guitars.. The standard production Performer I have is pretty versatile already and with the "silk & Monel" strings I have on currently it has an almost archtop-like transparency. Could be the slightly curved top and bottom have something to do with that. The higher-end all-solid-woods (Maritime?) version may be a bit more appropriate for a jazz sound if you can find the version that doesn't have a maple back (I saw an add recently, can't remember where).

EDIT: this one looks very interesting: For Sale Or Trade: *Open to Trades* Bamburg 2009 Small Jumbo Double Top German/Cocobolo - The Acoustic Guitar Forum for what I think is a killer price.

[Jx30510]

Well I don't want the typical archtop route because I'd like a traditional flattop acoustic. I have a few semihollow/hollow guitars that fill the purpose if I want to go jazz (in that case I prefer an electric guitar.

The L00 might be an option. And I just saw the LG 2 50's that looks great.

[Jx30510]

Here's an interesting comparison between the LG2 and L00.
While not in the jazz registrer, it's very clean playing and can hear the differences.
The L00, I find, has more overtones, the LG2 having a drier sound and mid-range tone.
I really love the plain while classy looks of these guitars.
I may be inclined towards the LG2, looks like a really sweet guitar.
The L00 has a fuller sound, maybe better for chords..

[Cavalier]

You guys forgot fiberglass as a tonewood for the back. I always recommend a solid top deep bowl Ovation for these threads. The parabolic bowl really projects, the neck is like a electric, 12 and 14 fret versions, the better ones have AAA sitka spruce tops...

However, for a work guitar
I picked up a old inexpensive Godin Art and Lutherie Folk Cedar, solid top, laminated cherry back and sides that is great bang for the buck so I'd look at Seagulls too. The body of this one is like a old Gibson Nick Lucas, regular size but quite deep depth, amazing tone and volume. Great neck.

[gitman]

All my years of playing (and listening to not only) flattop steelstring guitars - starting in 1977 - have taught me this : the tone you get is in your right hand and all the other variables are of far lesser importance. So body size and depth immediately come into the equation since they determine where your picking hand is (comfortably/naturally) positioned. The type, size/material of your pick, your choice of string, your picking technique and the strength of your attack - together all these factors are more relevant than the choice of the wood.
The steelstring I have now is a Santa Cruz 000-1929 , an all-mahogany 12 fretter. This guitar appealed to me because it produces less overtones than the trad. spruce-topped models, it has a strong fundamental tone, great sustain+ response and I am able to coax the right sounds out of it (for MY ear) without much effort.

[Jx30510]

I'm very aware of your comment concerning the right hand technique, placement, and strings used.
Basically I sound the same on any guitar. Minus bad setups or really high tension/action choices that choke my potential.
That's why I don't really like Gypsy guitars, with their longer scale length and traditional 3 mm action at 12th fret.
At one time I used to force myself to play with heavy strings, high action and all that "a good guitarist can play anything". In a sense yes, but today I just want to keep it easy and have pleasure playing the instrument..
I might go for the Taylor 322ce 12 fret.. It ticks all the boxes for me

[bohemian46]

Vinny plays a Collings. ..

[ThatRhythmMan]

The Collings Julian Lage signature OM1JL seems like it could be the ticket for some.

[RJVB]

I suppose a nylon-stringer is not an option? If not Eastman's version of the Buscarino Cabaret might fit the ticket too

(I can't really tell which 2 of the 3 guitars are the Cabarets)

[Jx30510]

Well not really. My brother has a Yamaha APX something and it's really great, with a more steel string type nut width.
I haven't played it for ages (neither does he I think), maybe I should give it a try!

[voxo]

[RJVB]

Well not really.

Because of the nutwidth or because of the arched back? On the Eastman nutwidth is listed as "narrow classical", whatever that means, and radius as 30" (basically flat?).

Of course, if nylon is an option then there are also the 2 much cheaper Guitares de la série "Signature Lulo Reinhardt" par Kremona but then again those would probably be too "gypsy". The Kiano variant sounds pretty versatile in what little and hard-to-find videos I've heard it in though.

[jads57]

[bluejaybill]

Great guitar playing of course, but wow what a great drummer!

[pcjazz]

Alan Beardsell in Winnipeg builds excellent flattops suitable for jazz. I have a walnut and red spruce short-scale 7-string (high A) with Alan’s trademark asymmetric neck profile, sound ports and armrest. It is too zingy for jazz when strung with phosphor bronze but just right with monel or nickel-bronze strings. It can be a bit bass-heavy when amplified (Mcintosh feather soundboard pickup) but that is easily controlled with a hi-pass filter on the amp or preamp.

[Cunamara]

Something to consider here might be looking at instruments with a laminated back and sides. My flattop, which I bought in 1979, is pretty useful for acoustic jazz. It is a Takamine F340S, laminated rosewood back and sides and solid spruce top. Mahogany neck. The action is no higher than my archtops or electrics (4/32"); I'm always puzzled by why people think acoustic guitars have to have ridiculously high action. If you are not strumming as hard as you can into one mic in a bluegrass lineup competing with a banjo, it's not necessary. And who wants to end up with the joint problems Tony Rice had due to playing an instrument with ridiculously heavy strings and ridiculously high action for decades?

If I recall correctly, it was $200 new. It has been just good enough that it has prevented me from seriously looking for a higher quality instrument. For the first seven years that I played guitar it was my only instrument, so I learned all of my fundamental jazz information on it. Maybe that's why my ears are acclimated to that sound? After all these years, the old dog has new tricks with Martin Retro Monel strings which make it even more usable for jazz. I just found out about those in the past year or so; I'm using the same strings on my 17" arch top as well and really digging them there.

So, what the OP might be looking for is not necessarily a $5,000 high-quality flattop with all solid woods, ringing like a bell, but instead some thing that is perhaps just a little more muted for $500.

[Jx30510]

Thanks very much for your insight.
I've just ordered yesterday Martin Retro Monels strings... I've heard that they do the trick to get more "fundamentals" and less overtones.

Yes, it's for a Martin Dread Junior I've found locally.
I've managed to lower the action like on an electric guitar by sanding the bridge. It plays really great!
The short scale 24' makes it even easier to play.and allows to achieve very fast runs. Complex chords sound good and clear with a controlled attack with the pick.
I ordered some Sta Tite open gear tuners and bone bridge pins just to make it mine.. I can't help but customize my guitars these days.
So I'm really happy with it, and will give a little sound report after my modifications with the Retro Monel strings.
By the way, it's the first version of the Dreadnought Junior, with the deeper body (11.10 cm).
The specs say it' s a 15/16 scaled down version of the real dreadnought. It sounds LOUD and full, great sustain (almost too much compared to an archtop, but it can be controlled with adequate technique).
Great little instrument and really seriously built. It's all solid woods with mahogany back and sides and sitka spruce top.
The neck is a once piece of "select hard wood" that looks and feels like mahogony. Almost sure it is some kind of hog.
The fretboard is richlite, looks and feels like ebony, I'm fine with that..
Nowadays alternative solutions are a good idea. Let's be open minded

[medblues]

Takamine TF740FS (fingerstyle) has a cedar top and is designed to have lower mids and has a Cool Tube preamp that gives warmth to amplified sound


Takamine Guitars :: product-details

[Rocket Roll]

The L00 has a fuller sound, maybe better for chords.

I find Gibson Nick Lucas and L00 models to be the sort of a perfect all-round guitar. Physically, they're close to the classical Hauser sizes, which means a good balance of everything. No wonder a lot of players (especially classical guys transitioning to flattops) consider them to be the be-all-end-all.

Added bonus for me would be the model with mahogany neck, spruce top and maple back and sides. That's, more or less, "the ideal archtop receipt". Maple for the back and sides means quick response, pleasant (non-honky) mids and fast bass.

[bohemian46]

FYI
Coco Bolo is a rosewood, dalbergia retusa.
As a consequence it sounds much like other rosewoods and very close to the sound of brazilian; dalbergia negra.

I have two very old billets from the same tree, enough for 3-4 acoustic guitars.
I have been hauling it around for at least 40 years.
Someday I'll get around to using it.

I very much like the sound and specs of Eric Skye's Santa Cruz. A very versatile guitar.

[yebdox]

Obviously, no one guitar will do it all, but I’m enjoying the versatility of my newest addition, a Martin OM-28CE, cutaway acoustic electric…. Not quite the “cathedral” tones of my HD-28, and I don’t have any fully acoustic archtops, but it sounds great for Metheny/Kreisberg/Amuedo style chord soloing and comping, especially through an amp.

Not currently in production, but can be found, or you can “upgrade” (?) to the equivalent Collings for around 2k more (I forget which model….supposedly a bit brighter, never played one.) Anyway, a good addition to my choices for voices, you may want to consider.



Not the exact same guitar, might be the mahogany OMC-18, but Will makes it sound great -

[RJVB]

I learned about Fylde guitars yesterday. Many of the ones I heard have a bit of a muted (but not in volume) sound that could work very well for jazz.