The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stringswinger
    This will give University Professors of Marketing something to discuss for many years to come.
    That calls for an apocryphal "university professors of marketing" story! I got my MBA from St Joe's many years ago the old fashioned way - 2 years, in person, no internet! We had 6 person teams in each class, and mine was generally great. I was partnered with a guy who did fundraising for nonprofits, a salesperson for medical equipment, a guy who had been RIF'ed by CSX in the middle of the big merge & shuffle period, an insurance company manager, and an engineer at the Boeing Vertol plant outside Philly.

    Our marketing classes were run by two profesors who were full of themselves and thought none of us could possibly know anything until they taught it to us. This was right after McDonald's tried and failed with the McLean Deluxe, a healthy "burger" made largely of a seaweed derivative that I actually liked but no one else did. They couldn't give them away and dropped them like hot rocks in 1996. Our marketing profs used the McLean Deluxe as an example of niche marketing, in that they claimed it was a failure because Micky D's was a kid's restaurant and they didn't stick to their niche with the seaweed burger.

    My teammate the engineer raised his hand and asked these two geniuses if they'd ever tasted one, to which they replied no. Ed responded exactly as you'd expect an engineer to respond with "It failed because it sucked!" He then pointed out that he worked at the Boeing plant across the street from a huge McDonalds, and most of the clientele were Boeing employees - there were rarely any kids in there. The response was a simple "you're wrong, Mr McKeever".

    Engineers don't take lightly to erroneous criticism, so he tracked down the ad agency that handled that account and contacted the executive who did the marketing & advertising for the McLean Deluxe. When Ed told him why he was calling, the guy said "It didn't sell because it sucked!" Ed asked for a letter to that effect and brought it to class the next week. Despite perfect scores on our exams, all of our team got Bs in that class. This ruined my perfect record. It was my only B in business school - all the rest of my grades were As!

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  3. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
    That calls for an apocryphal "university professors of marketing" story! I got my MBA from St Joe's many years ago the old fashioned way - 2 years, in person, no internet! We had 6 person teams in each class, and mine was generally great. I was partnered with a guy who did fundraising for nonprofits, a salesperson for medical equipment, a guy who had been RIF'ed by CSX in the middle of the big merge & shuffle period, an insurance company manager, and an engineer at the Boeing Vertol plant outside Philly.

    Our marketing classes were run by two profesors who were full of themselves and thought none of us could possibly know anything until they taught it to us. This was right after McDonald's tried and failed with the McLean Deluxe, a healthy "burger" made largely of a seaweed derivative that I actually liked but no one else did. They couldn't give them away and dropped them like hot rocks in 1996. Our marketing profs used the McLean Deluxe as an example of niche marketing, in that they claimed it was a failure because Micky D's was a kid's restaurant and they didn't stick to their niche with the seaweed burger.

    My teammate the engineer raised his hand and asked these two geniuses if they'd ever tasted one, to which they replied no. Ed responded exactly as you'd expect an engineer to respond with "It failed because it sucked!" He then pointed out that he worked at the Boeing plant across the street from a huge McDonalds, and most of the clientele were Boeing employees - there were rarely any kids in there. The response was a simple "you're wrong, Mr McKeever".

    Engineers don't take lightly to erroneous criticism, so he tracked down the ad agency that handled that account and contacted the executive who did the marketing & advertising for the McLean Deluxe. When Ed told him why he was calling, the guy said "It didn't sell because it sucked!" Ed asked for a letter to that effect and brought it to class the next week. Despite perfect scores on our exams, all of our team got Bs in that class. This ruined my perfect record. It was my only B in business school - all the rest of my grades were As!
    So the lesson was that it is better to suck up than to be right? =)

  4. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
    Examples abound! No one wanted 3 bolt Fenders when they made the switch from 4. For no good reason, everyone assumed that 3 were inferior - and maybe they were, but I never saw any kind of comparison testing to even begin to find out. And today I see ads for ‘70s Fenders at ridiculous prices because they have the “original rare and desirable 3 bolt neck”.
    Yeah I find that pretty comical as well. I had an early 70s Strat with a 3-bolt neck for a while. The bolts could not be tightened enough to keep the neck from moving because the neck pocket was loose. I think that's really the source of disdain for that particular feature -- in a proper, tight neck pocket it's fine, but not if there's a gap. That Strat was actually given to me by a friend who had given up guitar -- it was so messed up (in other ways as well) that I gave it back. The worst of those Fenders probably got landfilled and what's left is probably OK, but I'd rather have my '89 than any CBS Fender I encountered back in the day.

  5. #29

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    Is chrome or nickel better I really don't know if there is a preference. Chrome wears better usually.

  6. #30

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    Chrome/nickel… has a lot to do with where you live. My barrier island life destroyed anything nickel. Chrome faired ok.

    Dave don’t fret on your one B in an MBA program. I was working for Sperry Univac when I did mine, 1979. Our law prof was an IBMer, who unbeknownst to me was involved with defending IBM against their laser printer litigation.
    So jk does a research paper on how the Sperry laser was all environmentally buttoned up, as opposed to IBMs which just threw all kinds of gas and toner crud into the room. (Both these were both machines about 3-4’ wide, 7-8’ long, 4-5’ high. Not desktops)))
    So, guess who got the only D in that class and in his straight A MBA?
    Never liked IBM.

  7. #31

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    OP: recommend trying out both guitars. I did that recently and my ears liked '59 reissue better than '66(?) with the chrome tailpiece, which in turn was better than the gorgeous blonde 50s P90 specimen. My eyes preference was 50s > 60s > reissue.

    Bought the reissue.

    Good luck, enjoy the process, try to hold off for the one that really speaks to you

  8. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohanAbrandt
    So the lesson was that it is better to suck up than to be right? =)
    To be honest, I don’t think I learned anything from that guy except that satisfied customers still consider buying from your competitors, but delighted customers do not. So the #1 rule of successful business is to “delight the customer”. He may have been a jerk, but I think he was right about this. And I’ve tried to do that with every band, employer, and gig I’ve played.

  9. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohanAbrandt
    So the lesson was that it is better to suck up than to be right? =)
    I had a law professor once tell me that his experience practicing law prior to teaching, informed him that the A students often wound up working for the C students.

    The winners in life are not those who "suck up" from what I have seen.

  10. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stringswinger
    I had a law professor once tell me that his experience practicing law prior to teaching, informed him that the A students often wound up working for the C students.

    The winners in life are not those who "suck up" from what I have seen.
    I studied information technology, and the guys who never graduated are probably the richest today.

  11. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stringswinger
    I had a law professor once tell me that his experience practicing law prior to teaching, informed him that the A students often wound up working for the C students.

    The winners in life are not those who "suck up" from what I have seen.
    it’s also true that talented people often have zero interest in working in management.

  12. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    it’s also true that talented people often have zero interest in working in management.
    I disagree. Elon Musk is one of the most talented men in the world and management is a necessity for him. He cannot find managers that can run his businesses as well as he can.

    My experience is that it takes a certain personality (alpha dog) to be a good manager. And the best managers are quite talented.

  13. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stringswinger
    I disagree. Elon Musk is one of the most talented men in the world and management is a necessity for him. He cannot find managers that can run his businesses as well as he can.

    My experience is that it takes a certain personality (alpha dog) to be a good manager. And the best managers are quite talented.
    Christian didn't say "managers are untalented" or "talented people never want to manage". He said "talented people often don't want to manage." He is correct about this. Musicians who don't want to be bandleaders, creative types who don't want to be execs, writers who don't want to be editors, engineers who just want to do engineering, teachers who don't want to be principals, profs who don't want to be deans, etc. etc. It's a very common phenomenon that I've often observed in decades of working in different fields.

  14. #38

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    Managers can become place holders. They do time sheets, weekly status, budgets, reviews and if asked to change usually ask why?
    Leaders OTOH get a concept, stroll into the CEO’s office, play ‘you bet your job’ and say why not?
    Management has a bad rap anymore. Too many placeholders giving the good technicians and doers the idea that a management gig is a dead end. Unless they want to stay with the soldering iron in their hand or be a sideman (nothing wrong with that) we need more doers to take the reigns, get in that CEOs face and scream what if?.
    But
    ”more geese than swans now live, more fools than wise”.
    jk

  15. #39

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    The more you do management the less you do the thing. The more you get paid, otoh, but that’s not fundamentally why people who are passionate about a thing do it

    Some people are also not suited for that job, some people who might be amazing at making jazz guitars or designing rocket engines or whatever but be shocking with people. I mean that’s not controversial is it lol?

    (That said, guitarists we all end up doing a bit of management from time to time. Metheny did it, so I’m not too good lol. Drive the car, take the stupid questions, deal with late musicians etc. We aren’t bassists… you also need to be at least a bit social as a musician…)

  16. #40

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    I think there is a problem in how we value work. In many professions the manager must have a higher salary than the people he/she manage. This puts a cap on what a talented professional can make. So we end up with the most talented surgeon behind a desk instead of with a scalpel in the hand

  17. #41

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    So there is at least one thing we have right in the US healthcare system. The pharma companies I worked for, and oddly enough in the US government agencies, both have career tracks that allowed one to progress up a salary chart regardless of management or “independent contributor” (our term in Health and Human Services). Of course at a certain level management tracks did gain far better comp packages, either in public or private sectors. (Stock options, bonuses, other perks.). But of course that came along with more risk in your position as to expectations of you and your team’s performance. And in pharma world eventually they expected research or tech track people to have a PhD.
    Hah probably why i spent a lot of my career as an independent consultant. I was Overpaid, and combined management and production, and happily above local corporate (or Agency) politics.
    Bought some nice guitars too)

  18. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stringswinger
    I disagree. Elon Musk is one of the most talented men in the world and management is a necessity for him. He cannot find managers that can run his businesses as well as he can.

    My experience is that it takes a certain personality (alpha dog) to be a good manager. And the best managers are quite talented.
    My experience is that alpha dogs are the ones who think they are good managers, and often aren't. I have seen it time and again, at least in the creative businesses and often in others.

    The great managers I have seen are the ones who are great listeners, who can recognize great talent or a great idea when it walks in the room. It so happens that my wife was one of these, and she managed to build a huge creative business from nothing. I wouldn't call her an alpha dog, but I would call her ex-partner one- in his own mind. He was a terrible manager, though excellent creatively. And he managed to destroy everything my wife built after she retired! Glad he's out of our lives.

    I would however call the '59-63 period the alpha dogs of ES175's.

  19. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by bluejaybill
    My experience is that alpha dogs are the ones who think they are good managers, and often aren't. I have seen it time and again, at least in the creative businesses and often in others.

    The great managers I have seen are the ones who are great listeners, who can recognize great talent or a great idea when it walks in the room. It so happens that my wife was one of these, and she managed to build a huge creative business from nothing. I wouldn't call her an alpha dog, but I would call her ex-partner one- in his own mind. He was a terrible manager, though excellent creatively. And he managed to destroy everything my wife built after she retired! Glad he's out of our lives.

    I would however call the '59-63 period the alpha dogs of ES175's.
    My experience is that the worst managers are those who think they are alpha dogs, but in fact, are not. The best managers are those who know how to both delegate responsibility and motivate the people under them.

    The alpha dogs of ES-175's may well be the 59-63's but the 82-98 ES-175's are a strong contender for me as well. And the last few years of production (2015-2017) produced some stellar examples but sadly, many dogs (without the alpha )

  20. #44

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    A couple of lessons I’ve learned.

    You never make a lot of money working for others. Unless you’re a Surgeon, Lol!

    We have way too many lawyers and Marketing people, and they need to justify their salaries.

    Best leaders hire the best talent they can find, and stay out of their way!

    As a professional guitarist, there’s no money above the 3rd fret

    Theres always a bit of truth in urban legends, especially older guitars. Problem is the newer stuff is way more consistent and better built overall.