Reverb support for buyers?

[whitefang]

So I bought a lefty Gretsch G2622 on Reverb two weeks ago. The seller was a professional guitar player and, judging from the pictures, the guitar was in mint condition.
After a couple days I got a call from a carrier: "There was nobody, so I left the package in the entrance of the building". I ran home after work and found the package, but the guitar was poorly packed (just a couple sheets of bubble wrap in the original cardboard box) and had two cracks on the neck at the headstock and one big dent on the headstock itself.
I immediately sent some pictures to the seller and asked for a return (the seller's policies showed "Returnable within 7 days of delivery" for used items) and he started blaming the carrier first, then the forwarder and asked me to send them some pictures. The carrier answered they wouldn't refund as the package was not damaged (as usual).
I haven't had any response from the seller since that. Reverb support wrote me I could ship the guitar back, but I don't have the seller's address (the guitar was packed and shipped by a forwarder). So they wrote they have "upgraded my request to the Resolutions Team".
Does anyone have any similar experience? How did it end?
Thanks

[Nick71]

Demand for a return address and send it back and claim to Reverb that you want a full refund immediately because you got the guitar in a different condition than was advertised.

[whitefang]

Demand for a return address and send it back and claim to Reverb that you want a full refund immediately because you got the guitar in a different condition than was advertised.

That's what I did but the sender has never answered since then.

[seventhchord251]

I've generally had good experiences with the costumer service there. they are just a bit slow sometimes so you have to have a bit of patience. good luck!

[Cunamara]

Did you pay using Amex, Visa or MasterCard? File a complaint. Have them rescind the payment. That will get Reverb's attention because they lose their fee, as well as the sellers's attention because their payment gets reclaimed.

You can search through the forms for threads posted by Jack Zucker who had a run of really bad results (the term "shit show" is appropriate) mostly involving Reverb.com and the hassles he went through. IMHO he might've been a little too polite in that he didn't just go yank the payment from them using his credit card company, instead trying to resolve it amicably through Reverb's "support" and dealing with the seller.

Reverb's stance seems to be that they are not a retailer, just a middleman, and thus are not responsible for anything- and as a result have little to no responsibility to do anything. The seller has just managed to offload an item they didn't want and doesn't want it back, so they don't want to do anything either- making the buyer whole would mean that they're gonna be stuck with a broken guitar that they cannot resell.

[RJVB]

Did you pay using Amex, Visa or MasterCard? File a complaint. Have them rescind the payment. That will get Reverb's attention because they lose their fee, as well as the sellers's attention because their payment gets reclaimed.

AFAIK that won't work in Europe, or outside of the US.

Save the message from the delivery guy that the package was left on your doorstep!

[whitefang]

Save the message from the delivery guy that the package was left on your doorstep!

No message. I had a missed phone call and called him back.

I paid via Paypal, maybe I can use its buyer protection if Reverb does not cooperate

[daverepair]

I had a near miss with a recent Reverb purchase, and will be very wary in the future. Last Saturday I saw what seemed a great deal on a guitar, and in haste made the purchase: my payment, for the first time ever, went through Paypal. The seller informed me, 1/2 hour later, that he already sold the guitar, and I should request a refund from Reverb(no, wait, I responded, YOU refund my payment), and he cut off messages. Reverb informed me, that since my payment had gone straight to PP, I must ask them, not Reverb’s responsibility. What about Reverb holding payment, until proof of shipment is received, I asked? No further response from Reverb. Fortunately, PP, after receiving my complaint, immediately refunded my payment( there was some indication of scam or fraud by the seller), thank you PP! I will be very, very leery of any further purchase through Reverb, unfortunately. Good luck to the OP getting his payment back!

Sign me, Disgusted With Reverb.

[j4zz]

I had a near miss with a recent Reverb purchase, and will be very wary in the future. Last Saturday I saw what seemed a great deal on a guitar, and in haste made the purchase: my payment, for the first time ever, went through Paypal. The seller informed me, 1/2 hour later, that he already sold the guitar, and I should request a refund from Reverb(no, wait, I responded, YOU refund my payment), and he cut off messages. Reverb informed me, that since my payment had gone straight to PP, I must ask them, not Reverb’s responsibility. What about Reverb holding payment, until proof of shipment is received, I asked? No further response from Reverb. Fortunately, PP, after receiving my complaint, immediately refunded my payment( there was some indication of scam or fraud by the seller), thank you PP! I will be very, very leery of any further purchase through Reverb, unfortunately. Good luck to the OP getting his payment back!

Sign me, Disgusted With Reverb.

I always try to use Paypal for any purchases now, because, just like the above, they come through in these types of situations.

[daverepair]

I always try to use Paypal for any purchases now, because, just like the above, they come through in these types of situations.

That means you are relying on PP to protect your payment, rather than relying on Reverb holding the payment until shipment? And how does Reverb collect it’s fee?

[j4zz]

That means you are relying on PP to protect your payment, rather than relying on Reverb holding the payment until shipment? And how does Reverb collect it’s fee?

I don't know. I was speaking more generally than just Reverb. From reading this thread, it appears Reverb aren't all that reliable either.

FWIW I have found my bank to also be quite helpful in dealing with credit card problems as well. Someone used my credit card account to by a TV , and I got it all back.

[Cunamara]

Reverb.com has crossed from being unreliable to being untrustworthy.

[RJVB]

That means you are relying on PP to protect your payment, rather than relying on Reverb holding the payment until shipment? And how does Reverb collect it’s fee?

The most logical way for that would be if R used PP as a payment processor, so you're not paying the seller directly. Nothing stops you of course from striking a deal outside of Reverb but in that case it shouldn't come as a surprise that you don't get any support from them if something goes wrong. I think eBay has a long-standing warning about this.

Wasn't there someone on here who discovered that PP and R tried to shove off responsibility for reimbursing him on each other. It seems logical if PP don't apply their buyer protection scheme if the selling party has something similar. (After all, you only invoke their protection scheme if the seller refuses to reimburse you, in p2p transactions.)

[Stringswinger]

I use Paypal with all payments going through my AMEX card. I have had PayPal leave me in the lurch before so counting on them may be a mistake.

I will still buy small stuff through Reverb or EBay, but my days of selling through either of them or buying big ticket purchases (anything over $100) are over.

It was fun while it lasted......

[omphalopsychos]

Use your credit card always. Reverb support is famously bad, and you cannot count on them to resolve your issues without a massive headache and anxiety. All you need to do if you find yourself in this situation is call your credit card company and tell them you want to charge back the payment for "item not as described". Your credit card company will immediately take the funds back from Reverb and the burden will then be on Reverb to resolve the dispute. To the person who said Reverb is just the middle man, that is not correct. Reverb is the Merchant of Record for transactions on its platform; i.e. they are the entity legally responsible for selling you goods and handling disputes/charge backs. I've posted this before but want to share with everyone again because it's so easy to eliminate risk on guitar purchases:

(1) Evidence of the seller's description. Before you click "buy", download the item listing: photos, description, etc. Obviously ask questions about the condition first and keep evidence of the seller's descriptions. If they say there are "no cracks", have them say it over email.
(2) Evidence of delivered condition. When the item is delivered to your house, pull out your phone and start recording. Record an inspection of the box before opening, note any damage or absence of damage. Record the unpacking of the item, including footage of how the instrument was packed; note if it was packed poorly or packed well. Recording the opening of the case and the condition of the instrument. Record a thorough inspection of the instrument. **Try to do this all in one take so that the seller cannot claim you damaged the instrument after the delivery**. Take additional photos as needed.
(3) Contact the seller and/or Reverb and make them aware of the evidence you gathered in steps (1) and (2). Let them know that you will file a credit card chargeback if the issues are not addressed. Make sure you contact the seller before you file a chargeback. You will need to provide evidence that you tried to resolve the issue with the seller first before you filed the chargeback. Give them a timeline and stick to it. Let them know you will wait up to a week to resolve the issue before escalating.
(4) If the seller/Reverb don't resolve the issue, then go ahead and file the chargeback. Call your credit card issuer. Send them all the evidence from (1) and (2). For videos, the easiest way is to upload them to youtube and provide a link. The funds will return to your balance in a matter of days. There may be additional steps in resolution, but at least the money is back in your account and you have the upper hand in any discussions.

[2bornot2bop]

AFAIK that won't work in Europe, or outside of the US.

Save the message from the delivery guy that the package was left on your doorstep!

Charge backs are common all over the world. I did one from Russia!

[ThatRhythmMan]

Charge backs are common all over the world. I did one from Russia!

I’ve done chargebacks with musicstore.de.

A seller on Reverb that only accepts PayPal is a huge red flag. Almost all of the current scams only accept PayPal as payment.

[RJVB]

Charge backs are common all over the world. I did one from Russia!

Let me clarify: I have no doubt that an American-issued CC will allow charge backs no matter where the seller is. But I can ensure you that a card with the same logo but issues here in France (usually through a bank) typically won't. I've learnt that recently when I had a reason to look into this, asked around on my bank's support forum. IIRC the only way you can get a charge back for payments made with your CC if you've declared it lost or compromised/hacked. In all other cases your SOL as far as your bank is concerned: you authorised the payment, tough luck if you were "stupid" enough, and good luck with legal action to prove a scam.

This was just intended as a warning: don't count on having this fallback security but double-check if it indeed exists. Same applies to insurance of paid-for goods, travel insurance etc: those are all part of the deal between whomever you got the CC from and the CC organisation (either MasterCard or Visa).

NB: I may have over-generalised when I said Europe instead of France (I should at least have said "UE"...). And who knows, maybe this could be a good reason to get an Amex, Diners, Carte Blanche or whatever other options exist.

[whitefang]

Update: Reverb wrote me the seller's address and I was able to send the guitar back.
Let's see what happens...

EDIT: it seems I have been refunded. I was lucky, I don't know if I want to take another chance.