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  1. #1

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    I'm looking for a new amp. I've used a Yamaha THR for years - and don't use it all that much. I mainly play a semi-hollow with a single P90. I like mostly Fender sounds. I play at low volumes and don't want to deal with any tubes.

    I've narrowed down choices to the following, ranked more or less in order of preference.


    • Fender Deluxe Reverb Tone Master Blonde
    • Boss Nextone (based on a trusted tech's recommendation)
    • Quilter Aviator Cub


    Also, I have active speakers at my desk which I could put to use. I like the idea of a spacious sound at low volumes. This would open the following possibilities:


    • Helix Stomp. Although the features are overkill, some of them could prove useful down the line, and it's a small device to have on one's desk.
    • Yamaha THR30iii (battery operation and bluetooth useful including if the kids want to borrow it or taking outside for vacations or barbecues; line outs can go to the active speakers).
    • Strymon amp pedal (the big downside of which being it has no reverb)


    Any comments, feedback or suggestions welcome !

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  3. #2

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    As far as I am concerned it would be the Quilter Superblock US. It can connect to a large variety of speakers and excels in reproducing Fender sounds, at any volume.

  4. #3

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    If you like Fender sounds (as I do) and don't want tubes, then the Tonemaster has to be the obvious choice. The models in their Mustang GT100 that I use and just a delight to play through, and I am sure they are improving them all the time.

  5. #4

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    OP- Please define how low is low volume for you?........

    By using desk speakers I am guessing it will be in a room in a house?

    Is the THR not enough as is? the THR10C has a deluxe model already in it.

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by m_d
    I'm looking for a new amp. I've used a Yamaha THR for years - and don't use it all that much. I mainly play a semi-hollow with a single P90. I like mostly Fender sounds. I play at low volumes and don't want to deal with any tubes.

    I've narrowed down choices to the following, ranked more or less in order of preference.


    • Fender Deluxe Reverb Tone Master Blonde
    • Boss Nextone (based on a trusted tech's recommendation)
    • Quilter Aviator Cub


    Also, I have active speakers at my desk which I could put to use. I like the idea of a spacious sound at low volumes. This would open the following possibilities:


    • Helix Stomp. Although the features are overkill, some of them could prove useful down the line, and it's a small device to have on one's desk.
    • Yamaha THR30iii (battery operation and bluetooth useful including if the kids want to borrow it or taking outside for vacations or barbecues; line outs can go to the active speakers).
    • Strymon amp pedal (the big downside of which being it has no reverb)


    Any comments, feedback or suggestions welcome !
    if this is a practice amp I would actually recommend the Fender. I play through my Princeton at home (rarely on a gig lol) and it’s a wonderful inspiring practice amp. I think the tonemasters get pretty close

    plus you could gig it if you wanted to

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Laro
    As far as I am concerned it would be the Quilter Superblock US. It can connect to a large variety of speakers and excels in reproducing Fender sounds, at any volume.
    I think this has the Aviator module in it. If it works with active speakers it could work as an economical option, for sure.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by j4zz
    If you like Fender sounds (as I do) and don't want tubes, then the Tonemaster has to be the obvious choice. The models in their Mustang GT100 that I use and just a delight to play through, and I am sure they are improving them all the time.
    Yes, their GT/GTX amps seem to be good devices. I could never find confirmation that they're at the level of the one good thing that the TM does, however.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by EastwoodMike
    OP- Please define how low is low volume for you?........

    By using desk speakers I am guessing it will be in a room in a house?

    Is the THR not enough as is? the THR10C has a deluxe model already in it.
    Conversation levels or slightly above? An echo or extension of the acoustic sound.

    It's such a useful amp that I hate to say this, but I don't think it sounds good enough. I find the unplugged sound of my hollowbody more inspiring. It could be that I'm not very good at finding good settings, but there you have it.

  10. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    if this is a practice amp I would actually recommend the Fender. I play through my Princeton at home (rarely on a gig lol) and it’s a wonderful inspiring practice amp. I think the tonemasters get pretty close

    plus you could gig it if you wanted to
    It's definitely #1 on the list. I operate on the "buy once" principle and it seems the safest bet. Second would be the Quilter which I was suprised to read some people prefer over the TM.

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by m_d
    Yes, their GT/GTX amps seem to be good devices. I could never find confirmation that they're at the level of the one good thing that the TM does, however.
    Unless they specifically do not put their best models in the GT100, then the only difference is the speaker and the cosmetics. So, soundwise - it's the speaker. The speaker in the GT100 is a wide range device and IR models of the original speakers and cabinets are used to recreate the sound of specific models' speakers and cabinets.

    With the Tonemasters, they seem to be relying on one particular speaker (Jensen N12K in the Deluxe) and the physical cabinet, to sound like the original. They can do this because the device only has to simulate one model of amplifier.

    Two things about this though, I have found that they IR models do a very good job when fed into the wide range speaker in the GT100, and you have the wonderful flexibility of, plugging any amp into any speaker box. For example, want a clean sound that'll blow your head off, try a Fender Twin amp into a twin JBL Showman box.

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by m_d
    Conversation levels or slightly above? An echo or extension of the acoustic sound.

    It's such a useful amp that I hate to say this, but I don't think it sounds good enough. I find the unplugged sound of my hollowbody more inspiring. It could be that I'm not very good at finding good settings, but there you have it.
    I´d start by listening (in the room) to combos with different speaker sizes. The yamaha is good quality but 2 8 inch speaker doesnt move a lot of air. Try a 12 inch and see if it feels better in the stomach

  13. #12

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    Quilter Aviator Cub. You will thank yourself later. It is matter of self-respect.

  14. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by j4zz
    Unless they specifically do not put their best models in the GT100, then the only difference is the speaker and the cosmetics. So, soundwise - it's the speaker. The speaker in the GT100 is a wide range device and IR models of the original speakers and cabinets are used to recreate the sound of specific models' speakers and cabinets.

    With the Tonemasters, they seem to be relying on one particular speaker (Jensen N12K in the Deluxe) and the physical cabinet, to sound like the original. They can do this because the device only has to simulate one model of amplifier.

    Two things about this though, I have found that they IR models do a very good job when fed into the wide range speaker in the GT100, and you have the wonderful flexibility of, plugging any amp into any speaker box. For example, want a clean sound that'll blow your head off, try a Fender Twin amp into a twin JBL Showman box.
    First endorsement I see of those amps for jazz, that's great. The Blonde Tone Master has a Celestion speaker in it which makes a big difference apparently (country/roots guitarist Zach Childs argues that convincingly on YouTube). My caveat would be, even on the old THR, you have all those options and I don't know what to do with them or combine them. What's a compressor, limiter, all the effects options and settings in the app. In relation to the effects, what's sustain, output, speed, depth, threshold, release, time, feedback, preDelay, highRatio etc. And no explanation in the manual. They just assume your knowledge to be on the level of a studio engineer. To learn that stuff properly takes time.

  15. #14

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    Well, if you want to keep it simple and just use your active monitors then I can recommend the Audient Sono interface. It has Two Notes built-in cabs simulations (1st one is a Fender Reverb De Luxe sim). It also has a built-in tube, so it sounds like a tube amp. I recently bought one, and am amazed how good it sounds. I have a great ss amp and a great tube amp, but am using the Audient Sono most of my playing time. Nice thing about it is that with headphones you can also use it stand alone anywhere, no computer needed.

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by m_d
    First endorsement I see of those amps for jazz, that's great. The Blonde Tone Master has a Celestion speaker in it which makes a big difference apparently (country/roots guitarist Zach Childs argues that convincingly on YouTube). My caveat would be, even on the old THR, you have all those options and I don't know what to do with them or combine them. What's a compressor, limiter, all the effects options and settings in the app. In relation to the effects, what's sustain, output, speed, depth, threshold, release, time, feedback, preDelay, highRatio etc. And no explanation in the manual. They just assume your knowledge to be on the level of a studio engineer. To learn that stuff properly takes time.
    Well, actually a lot of those things have been on amps and pedals for 50 years or more. They just combine them into the software. I like Fender's way of doing it though, they provide models of real world pedals and you just plug them in, just like the real ones.

  17. #16

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    I think that for the volume level you say you play at nothing is going to sound noticeably better than what you have. The virtues of those bigger amps won't be apparent unless you're playing them louder. Before buying anything I think it would be a good idea to try a few amps in person to get a better sense of how much the amps' character you actually hear when they're barely audible above a semi-hollow's acoustic sound.

    That aside, the only items on your list I've tried are the TM DR and the Quilter. The TM DR sounds a little better than the Quilter's blackface emulation, but the Quilter's BF is still quite good and its tweed emulation sounds really good. Overall, for my uses the Quilter's smaller footprint and greater flexibility tip the balance in its favor. But for your uses, I think either would be overkill.
    Last edited by John A.; 05-11-2022 at 05:37 PM.

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by m_d
    It's definitely #1 on the list. I operate on the "buy once" principle and it seems the safest bet. Second would be the Quilter which I was suprised to read some people prefer over the TM.
    If you do get one make sure to switch out the speaker because the Jensen C10 is dogshit

    The quilter is lighter, obviously

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohanAbrandt
    2 8 inch speaker doesnt move a lot of air.
    That’s one of the most common misconceptions I hear about amplifiers and speakers. The same sound at the same SPL at your ears in the same room requires the same air motion regardless of the transducer(s) generating it. A larger cone needs a shorter excursion to displace the same amount of air as a smaller one. But the excursion of the voice coil is sufficiently long on small high performance speakers to “move more air” per square inch of cone surface. So large and small speakers transfer the same amount of kinetic energy to the air in order to present it to your ears at the same SPL in the same setting.

    Functionally, the cone is a weird piston. The area that pushes air is the same as the flat disc defined by the cone’s radius. Here’s a comparison of cone area based solely on peripheral size:

    8" = 50 square inches
    10" = 79 square inches
    12" = 113 square inches
    15" = 177 square inches
    18" = 254 square inches

    An 8 has 50 sq in of equivalent flat surface area. One 10 has 79, and one 12 has 113. So a pair of 8s is an effective piston of 100 sq in, which is 25% bigger than one 10 and 11% smaller than one 12. These are close enough for driver and enclosure design and pairing to let them all sound the same and “move the same amount of air”. An 8 with a voice coil excursion a little over twice as long as that of a 12 (common in good speakers) can move more air.

    But cones are tapered inward, and the angulation of the surface moves air in multiple directions. The percentage of energy radiating off axis is greater from a deeper cone, so bigger deeper ones have to “move more air” to get the same amount of energy to your ears that a smaller cone with enough excursion can throw directly at you. But bigger speakers are often more efficient, which can compensate for this by generating more output per watt of electrical input. In that case, they do “move more air”, but only to compensate for the wasted air thrown at the walls instead of the audience.

    Then there’s the point source phenomenon. The smaller the speaker, the closer it is to being a point source of energy. Dispersion from a point source is much wider and less directional than it is from a planar source. And there are multiple other factors at play and favoring different designs in different ways. But they all pretty much cancel each other out when it comes to delivery of acoustic energy to your ears. Smaller cones and coils are lighter, so they’re easier to move and stop. This improves transient response a tiny bit and aids damping for tighter bass. But smaller cones with smaller voice coils and magnets will crap out earlier, limiting the max SPL they can generate. It’s complicated.

    The bottom line is that any size speaker capable of hitting your ears with the sound of your instrument at 105 dB in a given setting can move enough air to do so. More air may be energized in other directions, but that doesn’t matter if the sound is identical to you. It’s not speaker size that matters, it’s design and construction.

  20. #19

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    I’ll take your word on it

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit

    The bottom line is that any size speaker capable of hitting your ears with the sound of your instrument at 105 dB in a given setting can move enough air to do so. More air may be energized in other directions, but that doesn’t matter if the sound is identical to you. It’s not speaker size that matters, it’s design and construction.
    My thoughts about preference for larger speakers (the "move more air" thing) is that, perhaps, it's related to frequency distribution. That 105db, in a real world situation, is not flat across all frequencies of interest. I hear what others hear, and even prefer a 12" speaker myself. I think there is more heft, more body, to the sound, on average, as you move around the room/stage in front of the amp. This probably means more solid mid-bass (as guitar speakers don't do sub-bass anyway).

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by m_d
    Conversation levels or slightly above? An echo or extension of the acoustic sound.

    It's such a useful amp that I hate to say this, but I don't think it sounds good enough. I find the unplugged sound of my hollowbody more inspiring. It could be that I'm not very good at finding good settings, but there you have it.
    Dear OP
    TO be fair, it’s your money and you are free to do as you wish. But please consider this at least- each of the amps you listed go for 500-1000 USD at sweet water and play very loud. Conversation is only 70-75dB and while they may have power scaling, it sounds as though you are not chasing edge of breakup tube distortion if you just want to reinforce the acoustic tone. They just seem overkill. If you can’t find a patch for a fender twin to set your current THR to ($0), consider the THR10c which had preconfigured that model and others that may suit. Going for around $200 usd on reverb. Or consider the THR5 which is geared to acoustic tones specifically with the same wattage output. Just a cheaper option to get what you are after.
    These things as you know can sit on any flat surface on any room of your house and still be loud enough for background music on the back deck during a family dinner, with stereo imaging. We use ours this way all the time, playing off a phone using Spotify.

    If you are intending to perhaps play out though- that’s a different story.

    cheers And happy hunting-

    EMike

  23. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by EastwoodMike
    Dear OP
    TO be fair, it’s your money and you are free to do as you wish. But please consider this at least- each of the amps you listed go for 500-1000 USD at sweet water and play very loud. Conversation is only 70-75dB and while they may have power scaling, it sounds as though you are not chasing edge of breakup tube distortion if you just want to reinforce the acoustic tone. They just seem overkill. If you can’t find a patch for a fender twin to set your current THR to ($0), consider the THR10c which had preconfigured that model and others that may suit. Going for around $200 usd on reverb. Or consider the THR5 which is geared to acoustic tones specifically with the same wattage output. Just a cheaper option to get what you are after.
    These things as you know can sit on any flat surface on any room of your house and still be loud enough for background music on the back deck during a family dinner, with stereo imaging. We use ours this way all the time, playing off a phone using Spotify.

    If you are intending to perhaps play out though- that’s a different story.

    cheers And happy hunting-

    EMike
    The 10C is the one I have and I struggle to find a sound that I find worthwhile, i.e. compared to my acoustic sound. I listened back to some of the THR demos from years ago and didn't dig them as much as I thought I did then. I think it sounds processed. I've gotten picky with sound. I get great guitar sounds and perfect fidelity playing back music from my active speakers (nothing fancy) at moderate volumes so why not with a guitar amp? That's my beef with tube amps - they sound good but need to be loud. That's 50s tech. And modelers can sound... plasticky. I'm expecting a modern amp to sound good and work at moderate volumes, nothing more, nothing less.

    There might be a setting buried in the THR through the editor that I will like but I'm looking at hours of searching and tweaking. And you're right, it's probably worthwhile, definitely something I should do before deciding on a new purchase.

  24. #23

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    For conversation level and slightly above the THR10 II is phenomenal. Super portable and produces an airy, multidimensional sound that’s great for family gatherings and similar settings. I also use the built-in Bluetooth to play along to iReal and to play audio examples and backing tracks for students to play along with (helping them with both tempo and dynamics).

    But, since you already have a THR, perhaps it’s not your thing. I didn’t love mine for jazz guitar until a forum member here suggested increasing the Gain level on the Clean model or using a low Gain setting on the Crunch model. Both fatten up the tone a lot and sound really good. My only regret with the THR is not having purchased the version with the Line 6 wireless guitar input built-in . That would be super convenient and liberating.

  25. #24

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    I have a toob 6.5 Bg and a quilter superblock US since yesterday, good low volume sound, tried it with an archtop, a strato(with the gain you get the crunch if you want, and a sheraton (kind of 335), sounds good, very little space used and many sounds possibilities with the superblock.

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by j4zz
    My thoughts about preference for larger speakers (the "move more air" thing) is that, perhaps, it's related to frequency distribution. That 105db, in a real world situation, is not flat across all frequencies of interest. I hear what others hear, and even prefer a 12" speaker myself. I think there is more heft, more body, to the sound, on average, as you move around the room/stage in front of the amp. This probably means more solid mid-bass (as guitar speakers don't do sub-bass anyway).
    I think it’s more related to frequency augmentation. I used a bass amp for decades because I loved the fatness it gave my sound. My first big amp was a Magnatone 4x12 when I was a sophomore in high school. I’d recently gotten a gorgeous used ‘60 175DN and thought the fat, bass heavy tone was wonderful. I used a B15N from ‘64 through ‘70, when the leader I worked for told me I needed a more modern sound for rock and pop.

    I stupidly traded the B15 for a new 2x10 Kustom 150 that thrilled everybody but me. So by ‘75, I was back to big tube bass amps with a Bassman 50. I got a Boogie combo in ‘77 or ‘78 with an EVM plus an EVM Thiele extension cab, and that had bottom to spare too. I used bass amps & cabs from GK, Genz Benz, SWR, Bag End, Peavey, Fender etc until about 10 years ago. I started to realize that what I thought was richness and fullness was really the “distortion” of heavy even order harmonics being added to my guitar’s sound by the amps.

    When I started trying really good smaller amps & cabs (which I never would have done in my first 50 years of playing), I realized that the big sound I’d favored for decades was more the sound of the amp and speaker(s) than the guitar. So I understand the draw and allure of big speakers very well - I never even gave single 12s a try until my Boogie came along. I had that 4x12, then a 15” Pro (which with its open back had too small a bass hump to please me), then the B15, a 2x12 Bassman cab, etc etc.

    But after buying an early RE Bass 10 from Rich, I started giving the new generation of amps & speakers a chance (although I never even tried the Stealth 10 because of my emotional need for a bass cab). Then SWR came out with the Baby Baby Blue and I bought one in about 2003 and discovered how great 8s could sound. Today, I usually gig with a Little Jazz or my new Blu 6 and love hearing my guitars more than ever. So do the bass players I work with! I put a neo Jensen in the RE and drive it with my DVM Raw Dawg 250 on big gigs. And the only time I use a 12 is in the backline at the club in which we play regularly.