Plain wire trebles - All equal or some truly warmer (*acoustically*!) than others?

[sgosnell]

I would expect heavier strings to wear frets more slowly, because of the increased surface area contacting the frets, but not my much. I tend to doubt that the difference could be accurately measured. I haven't done any experimentation at all on this, though, so I'm only speculating.

[RJVB]

I would expect heavier strings to wear frets more slowly, because of the increased surface area contacting the frets, but not my much.

That's what I also thought, but then I remembered that heavier/tauger strings are more likely to buzz under your fingers if you don't fret them properly.

The question came up yesterday, when I noticed that there's visible wear to the 2nd-4th or 5th frets on my archtop, under the B string. IIRC it showed hardly any wear when I got it, and if so I did that in just over 5 months The only consolation I can think of is that the action at the nut was way too high at first, and that I've lowered it some more last week (I think to about 0.2mm at the 1st fret with the string held down at the 3rd. Can probably go a bit lower still (like on my jumbo, but that one has a longer scale length).

Completely off-topic, but I bought a dedicated 0.016" nut file for this, and then saw you can use nozzle cleaning files to touch up existing nut slots. A set of those cost half the price of the single nut file, and they do indeed work (with a bit more elbow grease and inconvenience).

[sgosnell]

IME thicker strings buzz less, because of less vibration excursion. I have a set of the nozzle cleaners (not exactly files, but that's not important now) and they're somewhere in a drawer. I got some use out of them, but not a lot. I have a lot of files, of various sizes, shapes and uses, but for nuts and saddles all I use these days are these: Access to this page has been denied. Far from cheap, but IMO worth it. They can be removed from the big yellow carrier if necessary, for working in tight spaces, such as touching up a slot without removing the string, just sliding it over a little. I only have 6, and that's enough. It's easy enough to use a smaller file and widen the slot just a little wider if needed. But in the end, whatever gets the job done is good enough.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Well, I just had to know, so I miked 2 ti jazz swing 0.12 strings and they both came out at 0.299 mm, so what they aim for is most probably 0.3 mm. Roughly 0.118 inch

Here’s what I learned from the TI string chart linked in this post from an earlier thread on strings:

I'm not sure that TI adopted a modern standard for measuring - they seem to be using the same one they've used since they converted from coal to electricity. Here's the TI tension chart for Jazz Swings. They show a nominal 0.013" string as being 0.32 mm rather than the closer 0.33, which calculates to 0.01259". So a TI sold and labeled as 0.013" is actually 0.0126. The same conversion "adjustment" applies to all of their strings, but a very few are not smaller than others of the same nominal size. Their 16 is actually a 15.7 and their 53 is actually 52.7 - but their 50 is exactly 0.050".

[RJVB]

IME thicker strings buzz less, because of less vibration excursion.

I didn't mean fretbuzz, or buzz against fingers on neighbouring strings. I meant buzz against the fret you're playing, when you're not placing your finger right. That's probably the kind of lack-of-technique issue that disappears the fastest when you become a better player (I encounter it mostly nowadays when I first play something I've only/mostly played on nylon strings before).

I have a set of the nozzle cleaners (not exactly files, but that's not important now)

You're right, whatever gets the job done for a justifiable price. I'm not expecting to use them very often again but I'll reconsider if I find myself making my own nuts or saddles... And since you bring it up: I have no other word for mine than "files"; the business part has circular grooves which is simpler than the cross-hatch pattern on my general purpose files but they use the same principle to do their job.

The "official" nut file I got for the B is IIRC a Maxparts model from Thomann; cost me about 19€ without handle. I chose it because it was in stock and had good reviews, including a claim that it has an oval shape (I haven't taken out a magnifier to check that). I wanted a good one for this string because its slot had been redone with the bone dust + superglue method.

[JohanAbrandt]

Here’s what I learned from the TI string chart linked in this post from an earlier thread on strings:

Yeah, they put the 0.12 at 0.30 mm in the chart, and what I measured shows that the wire is 0.30 mm - tolerance, which translates to 0.118 inch. Not really surprising that a european company buys their wire in metric I guess.

[Gabor]

From what I understand this is not an illusion, but the result of the fact that TI work with metric units; these are then converted to the imperial .01x gauges for labelling, rounding off the actual value to 2 digits. Their 12 gauge E string could thus be as "thin" as an 11.5 (I presume they would round 11.4 down to 11).



Can you describe how they sound different - acoustically? Also, under what references does one find individual NYXL trebles?



Made by d'Addario.

Follow-up question: do heavier treble gauges wear the frets faster?

I am fully aware it is made by d'Addario, from the beginning they advertised it, but according to the description it is custom made alloy, not the canned global supply. Of course there is a slight chance that zinc alloy thing is a misleading scam, but unless is is proved to be lie, I am an optimistic believer. Plus I love them, so for that price everyone shoud give it a shot, cheaper than any other quality stuff.

The trebles are not so different acoustically, the main difference is throu amp. They literally sing, with long sustain, no plink plink. The closest analogy is like tube vs solid state, those trebles are on the tube side compared to TI.

A must hear. But a word of warning: if one is a thunk lover, this will not do for him. Also, they are roundwound sets, so if one does not love zing zang on chords, it is also not for him.

I never tried NYXL so I can not compare to those sets.

[RJVB]

I think the electrozinc is just a nice, period-correct way of referring to the fact that the wrap wire is electro-plated with zinc (in that case they could have made a pun on how these leave us galvanisé if the brand were French ). It's of course also possible that the wrap wire is indeed a zinc alloy and that the electro bit refers to the fact these are strings for e-guitar.
Zinc isn't magnetically active, is it?

The fact these are made by d'Addario and the rest of the marketing mumbo probable imply that the core wire (and trebles) are made at the firm's NY plant with the steel they use there, i.e. NY steel.

EDIT: Bethanization - Wikipedia

See the remarks about zinc-iron alloys; brittleness is not something you want in a string.

[Gabor]

I think the electrozinc is just a nice, period-correct way of referring to the fact that the wrap wire is electro-plated with zinc (in that case they could have made a pun on how these leave us galvanisé if the brand were French ). It's of course also possible that the wrap wire is indeed a zinc alloy and that the electro bit refers to the fact these are strings for e-guitar.
Zinc isn't magnetically active, is it?

The fact these are made by d'Addario and the rest of the marketing mumbo probable imply that the core wire (and trebles) are made at the firm's NY plant with the steel they use there, i.e. NY steel.

EDIT: Bethanization - Wikipedia

See the remarks about zinc-iron alloys; brittleness is not something you want in a string.

I think, we over theoretized it, for the same time it would be possible to try. It is cheapo, worldwide available via Amazon, or in EU better in thomann.de

If it would be a $ hundreds investement, or trouble to get it, or days to try it, then it would be worth to talk about more, but neither is the case.

I just would like to add a new, less known experience to the topic.

[JohanAbrandt]

Yeah, and on the plus side, the zinc plated strings could act as a sacrificial node, so your guitar stays rust free, 2 flys in one swat

[RJVB]

Yeah, and on the plus side, the zinc plated strings could act as a sacrificial node, so your guitar stays rust free, 2 flys in one swat

???

I'm not about to splurge around 16€ on a set just to get the 2 trebles which are probably going to sound just like any other treble I can buy for a fraction of that price... So no, I didn't over-theorise in my book

I did however order an E,B pair of Optima's gold-plated trebles, we'll see if those stand out. Plus that AC016 flat-wound G that should work as a 17 B ... curious about that!

[Jimmy Smith]

Can you describe how they sound different - acoustically? Also, under what references does one find individual NYXL trebles?

More elastic and supple. Softer acoustic sound.

D'Addario NYXL High Carbon Steel Single Strings NYS007 NYXL Plain Steel .007

[RJVB]

Thanks! I'm not certain a "softer" acoustic sound is what I'm looking for, TBH, but I'll flag them for a future order (sadly your post came just too late for this morning's order). They're not cheap here though (2.35€); more expensive in fact than those Optima gold-plated strings!

[Jimmy Smith]

Yeah, they're a good option, but in the end I prefer the pure sound of the regular xls for plain steel. They got the nyxl plain steels to feel kind of slinky.

[RJVB]

Got my order in, and just had to try that AC016 as a B string. Interestingly it's a 0.0169" so 17 gauge. I cannot really speak for its actual tension, but because of its higher flexibility the force needed to deflect it is a bit less than that for a similar deflection of the 16 gauge plain wire B.

Evidently I it requires a different (less) compensation than the plain wire B; it's just audibly flat at the 12th string. We'll see how it sounds after a few days, time to let it lose its initial brass'hy twangyness.

I also installed the 13 gauge Optima gold-plated high E. Initial impression: definitely a bit mellower.

[RJVB]

I didn't leave that AC016 on very long; ultimately I didn't like the sound any better than a 16" plain wire B string, maybe even less, so there was no point in putting up with the iffy intonation.

The gold (?) plating on the Optima trebles doesn't really last much longer than the brass plating on the GHS and TI trebles I tried, and today I noticed a pronounced twang in the open high E when played a bit louder. Slipping a piece of paper between it and the nut helped with that, so maybe I should just give in and get myself a new nut made because I also have something under the low E in its nut slot to prevent very audible buzz on that open string (a piece of the sealed wrapper of a used covid self-test )

Funny: much as I'm looking forward to trying a saddle with bone insert, I'm now wondering if I shouldn't try an ebony nut. I'd expect this to make the sound of the open strings (a bit) more mellow, no? Anyone try this?