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Yesterday I had some time on my hands so I took my bike and went to the big music store here in town. Somehow after having sold my Ibanez JSM10 to a friend like 2 years ago I regained interest in semi hollows. I also had just received a Stanford Crossroad 35 (which is a chinese version of an ES 345) I bought to try it (these were not available nearby so the only way to try one was to order it with a 30 day money back policy) so I wanted to know how it would compare.
I played:
Ibanez JSM10 (again)
Ibanez JSM20th (the black limited, expensive, made in Japan Sco-guitar)
Ibanez AM2000H
Gibson ES-335 satin
Gibson ES-335 figured
Gibson ES-335 '59 VOS
Epiphone ES-335
While most of the guitars were strung with 10s, the expensive Ibanez had .013 so that may be a bit unfair (I prefer heavier strings)
My impressions:
All the Ibanez had a high quality level, they all had a matter-of-fact attitude to me. The JSM10 (made in Indonesia now) compared well to the prestige-models. These had some nicer details like a nicer neck joint, but each of them would make a great tool to make music.
The Gibsons – the assembly line 335s really didn't speak to me. They would also make great tools but for the prices (like 2.500 € for the satin, more than 3k for the figured) ... I would rather take the Epiphone Version, which to my ears had the same basic tone and feel at a fifth of the price. Decent instrument for like 550 € that I would take to a gig anytime.
But ... the Gibson 335 '59 VOS was something special. It had a tone and feel that outplayed all the other instruments. It better should at like 5.5k €!
Fun fact: It was sold (on the internet) while I was playing it and started to think how I could justify such a big investment and explain it to my family. But this one would be a lifetime-instrument.
The verdict: I think there isn't a big gap in quality between run-of-the-line instruments from China, Indonesia, USA or Japan. If you don't need the "G" on the headstock you can get better instruments for a fraction of the price. If I would shop for a Gibson (because I wanted a G) I would either consider finding an older one on th used market or shell out the big chunk of money for a VOS. Or just get an Ibanez or Epiphone and make music.
I didn't bring the Stanford to the store but I think it compared quite well. It sounds decent and plays well and with the slightly aged nitro finish it has some of the feel of the VOS. I think I will keep it even though it will not stop me from fantasizing about the VOS. OTOH using that on a gig will be much more relaxed than having an eye on a stash of 5.5k € in the shape of a guitar. ;-)Last edited by guavajelly; 04-30-2022 at 01:50 AM.
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04-30-2022 01:26 AM
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Careful, G . . . Semi's are irretrievably addictive . . . Great info!
Marinero
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They had a Stanford 175 copy at that store
that was one nice guitar. I didn’t have the funds at the time (still don’t but things are getting better), shame it‘s gone and won’t come back.
I wasn’t too impressed with the Ibanezes last time, though.
Oh, if you don’t want to keep your Stanford, call me first.
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You might try a [G]uild on the headstock. Either new import model or a nice used USA model.
Thanks John
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It's a bad time to buy new guitars anyway, the prices are just ridiculous..
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Just wait a bit, A,
Originally Posted by Alter
Prices are going to drop significantly here in the US. Our economy is under a real threat of implosion as our government is addicted to unfunded deficit spending with a recession looming at our doorstep. There could be some real buys in the near future.
Marinero
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I own an Epiphone Sheraton II. It is much much nicer in every way than their own Dot version of the 335. I have played Gibson's only briefly in the shop, but didn't notice any compelling improvement over the Sheraton.
I did a similar comparison a few years ago when I wanted a an ES-175. In this case, the Gibson wasn't even the one I liked most. I ended up buying, and still have, a Washburn J-3.
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And the guy in the store said it would get worse. While I was there the 59 VOS was sold for 5.5k – he said for the next he'd get (maybe in September) he'd have to charge more than 7k without making more money on it. That may have been a trick to sell, but he seemed honest. Originally Posted by Alter
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Just like cars. Originally Posted by Alter
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How do prices in Germany compare with the rest of Europe? I ask because an American on The Gear Page was complaining recently that American guitars are much cheaper in Spain than in America. I think he stumbled on the truth that multinational corporations adjust their prices to reflect local incomes and living costs.
Of course, in some European countries people mostly play accordions and zithers, so guitars might be undervalued; or they might be prized for their rarity.
It is also possible that all semi-hollows are overpriced, because people associate price with quality.
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Yeah, and mouth harps, dont forget the mouth harps Originally Posted by Litterick
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Gibson ES-335 "Original Vintage Sunburst" c. 3,000 € = approx 3,150 USD. How much are they charging in the US?
Zithers? Yes, mostly carbon fiber models fitted with Fishman synth pickups these days.
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I like my heritage 535 but I don’t have anything to compare to.
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I think it is worthwhile in these discussions to remember that the 3XX template is a Gibson innovation. Just to add a little perspective.
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I think it’s time for a good old es335 vs. h535 argument
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Thanks for the nice comparison! I am a bit surprised that the other Gibsons scored so low. The VOS-line is great imho, so I expected that to do well.
Man, Gibson is really upping their prices in an unreasonable way, imho. There is probably some economic logic behind it, but 7k for a 335 VOS? Have labour and raw materials become that expensive? I would never consider paying that (for any guitar for that matter) and believe me, I love my 2005 Memphis ES-333 with 57s in it (so practically the same as a 335). I got that for $1300 (used) some 5 years ago…..
The 335 design makes for a very versatile guitar, suitable for practically all styles.
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The Eastman T486 and T386 have caught my eye.
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I recently purchased a T486. Excellent guitar @ $1,400. Originally Posted by TedBPhx
AKA
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Comins GCS-1
Designed by a master luthier. Beautifully finished in Philadelphia after S Korean assembly.
Won't break the bank.
I love mine!
Just sayin'.......
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Update: Last weekend a friend came over and brought his new Ibanez AS2000 and ‘82 Gibson ES-335 so we compared even more.
The made in Japan Ibanez was great, very well made and playable, fairly light and sounded great. Very versatile with the tri-sound switch which he uses all the time (i never bothered after initially trying). We both agreed that there is such a thing as an "Ibanez sound". He told me that although he bought the Japan-made 2000 he still plays the chinese JSM10 I sold to him 32 years ago the most.
The '82 335 had that typical Gibson tone – more midrange and weight to the tone than the Ibanez. A "woody" tone in lack of a better word. More sustain, less emphasize on the attack of the notes then the Ibanez. He told me he wouldn't use it that much because there's always a chance that tones get muddy. I thought the tone has "character" – just like my 330. So there also seems to be something specific about the tone of Gibsons that even my cheap Les Paul Tribute seem to have.
After all that I decided to just keep the Stanford. It plays nicely, has a straight forward but inspiring tone and a nice Wabi Sabi look and feel to it. The tone is somewhere in between the Ibanez and the Gibsons – I think there is something about ebony fretboards I like.
And it won't break the bank. It will let me try if I want to use the semi-sound in the context of my organ trio or rather stick with my hollowbody 330. Can't wait to play it with the band. :-)
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The VOS I tried was a dream and I keep fantasizing about it. The off-the-mill Gibsons (I tried a satin and a figured) were also good – but not exceptional. Originally Posted by Little Jay
The satin felt a bit unfinished to me and the figured didn't feel different than a guitar finished in Poly (like the Ibanez). Both sounded and played well, but not exceptional like the VOS.
They had the Gibsons in the "custom shop room" but later I tried an Epiphone in a different room and it didn't feel, play or sound much different to me. I wouldn't mind playing gigs with either – but for like 5 or 6 times the price I'd expect the Gibsons to be more "special" ...
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They never do. When I went looking for an ES-175 type, I bought the best ES-175 in the store (for me), and it wasn 't the Gibson nor was it the Epi. I enjoyed playing, and the sound of, the Washburn. I must be weird Originally Posted by guavajelly
and I'll be punished for it, for sure.
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Gotcha! Yeah… one can wonder if Gibsons are really overpriced for what they are. Especially with the lower budget guitars catching up and delivering almost as much for a fraction of the price. Originally Posted by guavajelly
Still…. My ES-333 just always sounds good, a phenomenon that kind of surprises me, since in general guitars can sound great one day and the next day they can sound “meh”, depending on the available amp, room acoustics, temperature, moisture in the air or whatever…. But for some reason I never experience that with the Gibson; that is very consistent in the way it sounds. I have no clues as to why actually…..Last edited by Little Jay; 05-16-2022 at 03:18 AM.
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i have a Heritage 535 Special ( a special run for Wolfe Guitars with a little more bling etc) and a Gibson 59 VOS. They are both special. The Heritage is in the same ballpark for sure. Originally Posted by paul s.
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anyone selling an ibanez pm120?
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