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Does anyone else have the impression that TI, or brass-plated plain trebles in general get a bit unstable intonation after a while when the brass is starting to wear off, a floating character to their sound? My tuner says I must be imagining things...
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04-22-2022 05:49 PM
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Never spotted anything like that in relation to the brass wear. My go to are roundwound Bebop 014.
I usually attribute tuning issues to mechanical damage, uneven stretching, capo, changing tunings, adjusting the intonation or inconsistent/sloppy manufacturing. Overall I have a good experience with TI in this regard and feel like they are somewhat more consistent than other brands.
The least consistent and iffy for me were the Pyramid pure nickel I used to get from Thomann, which is sad as they are cheap and I love their dark warm sound.
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Nope.
Danny W.
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I stopped using the brass color plain strings. I have been using Elixer plain strings with the JS112 flat wound set. I have been doing it for a few years. I was hearing something that I did not like with the brass color strings. There was a time when I was having work done and the luthier changed out the brass color plain strings. I recall him saying he watched them vibrate in bright sunlight and did not like what he was seeing.
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No, and I use them for a long time.
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As you know, I just removed the TI JS112s that I put on my working archtop in January 2021, because I wanted to see if I was too insensitive to respond to gradual deterioration in tone, accuracy etc. I replaced them with fresh 113s after making baseline recordings, and re-recorded the same tune with the new ones. In a JGO thread last week, about half of the participants who offered their guesses as to which was which picked the old ones as the new ones. I couldn’t consistently tell which was which, and they even responded similarly with different playing styles and positions (FS, picked, closer to neck or bridge, etc). The new 113s were a bit warmer to FS to my ears.
Originally Posted by RJVB
Specifically, intonation remained fine on all 6.
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Never experienced any difference in sound, intonation or feel between plain and brass plated strings (provided the same gauge, of course).
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There is tin plating underneath the brass. I have a couple of sets on guitars, and the brass has worn off where I fret the strings, leaving bright tin underneath. The brass plating is very thin. Under that it appears to be a normal plain string.
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Yes, it's more like a brass coating than a plating. I can't recall that TI claim an influence on sound from that, but GHS do (in what used to be the Laurence Juber signature set). And their trebles lose the brass just as quickly so it cannot be much thicker.
But IIRC I have had violin E strings that were gold or brass plated and remained that way. Long time ago, so I can't be entirely certain.
Maybe the not-so-clean aspect I hear to the sound of esp. my B string comes from sympathetic resonance from the other strings, the trans-saddle part or the fact that the saddle slot isn't too well cut (or worn).
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I can confirm, brass quickly wears off.
I also have the experience all TIs have problems with intonation, my "theory of myself" the cause is the not constant mass distribution within the strings whole length.
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That would certainly be an explanation. The brass coating must be too thin however to make an audible difference, so we'd be dealing with strings that don't have a constant-enough diameter (for monofilament trebles we'd say they require rectification). Somewhere I find it hard to believe that a big and not exactly cheap German string producer would allow such a thing. Originally Posted by Gabor
FWIW, I see that TI also have references to "T" trebles on their site; I presume those are the regular tin-plated ones.
Some members on here have claimed that there are differences in steel plain trebles (alloys, treatments,...) that translate to different sound signatures. I'm willing to experiment a bit with that; which ones should give the least jingly sound and/or are the least susceptible to sounding like a snare when plucked just the wrong way (I can't got beyond a 13 E and 16 B)?
I've read a few of the relevant threads on the AGF and read some positive remarks about d'Addario NYXL trebles (it's never clear to what extent people judged them without the sympathetic resonance from the lower strings). The only individually available NYXL trebles I've found to date are the XT ones; is there any substance to the idea they sound warmer?
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Thomastik Infeld Vienna...Austrian, No? Originally Posted by RJVB
G'Day, Mate!
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Oops, yep. Not the same thing
I don't know much about Austrian industry
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Well, they're always the better Germans... Originally Posted by RJVB
Oops, yep. Not the same thing
I don't know much about Austrian industry
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I wanted to say Thanks! to everyone who posted all the useful info here (and on at least one other thread from a while back) on alternatives to the TI Swing brass-plated plain B and E strings.
I had installed a set of TI Swing 13's about 2 weeks ago and have been liking them. And today, out of the blue, I had a plain E string snap at the tuning post (and it hadn't been loosened/tightened much at all during that time). Seems odd. Anyway, no exact replacements here at the moment, so I thought I was going to maybe go back to the EJ21 set that I'd previously used (which I generally like, but not as much as the TIs). After reading this (and another) thread, and digging around in some drawers, I found both a set of D'Ad 13/17 plain steel strings, and a set of Elixir 13/17 as well - both new sets. Figured I'd try the Elixir B/E, and I do feel like there is something "more" with them now compared to the TIs. A bit more thickness/clarity in tone maybe? I'm just glad I learned something and got the problem handled.
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Most likely cause of string breaking at the tuning post is a little bur at the edge of the hole the string passed through. Even if you can't feel anything, with the string removed, take a little square of 400-500 grit or so sandpaper and lightly buff around the entire edge of both sides of the string holes. Also roll the paper up and feed it through the hole and go over the entire inner surface. Not a bad idea to do this to every tuner post just to be safe. It should be fine after this.
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Thanks - that's a great tip - and it is a pretty new guitar, so one or more of the tuners may have that issue. I'll definitely do this either when I replace the strings, or when this new E string also snaps. Originally Posted by whiskey02
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I have the impression 13 gauge E strings are just more prone to breaking in places where metal fatigue can develop than 11 or 12 gauge E strings. Interestingly many older German (archtop) guitars have tuners with much thicker pegs; they might even be as fat as nylon guitar rollers. This should reduce the breakage problem (which also occurs with certain nylon-like strings if you install them on standard thin pegs).
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yes I agree .... Originally Posted by whiskey02
Strings breaking at the tuner is almost
definitely something sharp at the tuner
smooth it out and all will be well i’m
thinking
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Ive used 13 and 14 top E strings on normal tuning pegs for years Originally Posted by RJVB
and have never experienced this
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Never in 30+ years had a E, 12, 13, 14, or in me younger days 15 break.
Sounds like burrs someplace.
BTW I drop the TI E and B for Optimum Golds. Much sweeter sound to me.
YMMV.
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I had 3 13" E strings break, one after tuning back up (an Optima Gold, after reworking the nut slot), its replacement (GHS LJ13) last week when losening it for the ZeroGlide install, and then its replacement (an Ernie Ball) after I'd swapped back in the original nut. At that point I did put an oldish piece of sanding paper on a toothpick and reamed the tuner hole with it, but the truth of the matter is that the string didn't break there. The string part going through the hole was still there, as well as the 2-3 loops around the peg. The break was most definitely at the point where the string comes off the roller.
The current LJ13 is holding though, and it has been down to a D or so twice (just enough to lift it out of the slot and put it alongside the neck during my reworking of the ZeroGlide nut). Maybe there was a tiny burr that on the bottom of the hole; with 2-3 windings a high E is probably still in the perimeter of that hole.
Actually that could be it: that hole is usually not just a (properly sized) drill hole but is tapped and this sits in a sort of oval well. Which has edges, and pulling the string tight over that will probably cause a bend that's sharper than the peg radius.
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did they all break at the same point ?
if so there’s the culprit ....
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My strings never break unless I am in a guitar fiddling mode, slacking the strings and then bringing them back to tension seems to exercise the kinks in the strings, usually at the peg and metal fatigue finally breaks it.
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Not exactly the topic, but still related: I have not noticed intonation problems, but I stopped using TI on my 2012 Gibson ES175 because I found the brass plated strings too bright sounding. I have the feeling that they produce an ugly metallic buzzing sound on the frets as the brass starts to wear off. Originally Posted by RJVB
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