The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    When I put my first ever set of TI JS112s on my Ibanez AF207 in January 2021, I wanted to test their legendary longevity. So I decided to leave them on until they obviously needed changing. Wonder of wonders, they've seemed fine for 16 months now. I've played this guitar weekly for our 2 hour Thursday night jazz show and at least 2 or 3 hours a week at home. I haven't broken one, intonation is excellent, and they still play as well as they did when new - or, at least, they seem that way to me. But I started to wonder if I wasn't accommodating to slow but real change as it was happening, so I just replaced them with new JS113s. I did not change the 7th string, which is a nickel RW 0.76

    I wanted to have a recorded comparison to find out what I might have missed. So I recorded a short version of Polka Dots and Moonbeams with each set of strings, with the first verse solo fingerstyle and the second verse picked with fingerstyle chords / bass line comp. This was all recorded through my Little Jazz with tone controls flat, reverb barely on, and the guitar's pots wide open. I ran the direct out into my DAI and captured it in Audacity. Settings are exactly the same for both sets of strings, and I normalized both old and new to the same -1 dB peak. The segments are alternated between set one and set two. First are are two fingerstyle solo segments followed by one with picked lead added over over FS comping. Each is identified audibly with a "one" or "two" before it.

    Can you tell which set was recorded with the year old 112s and which was made with the new 113s?


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  3. #2

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    I would guess 1 is the new set, but the difference is minuscule (on an iPad at least). I leave mine on forever and only change the high e&b when absolutely necessary. Unlike me, they get better as the years go on...

  4. #3

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    Nope. I can't tell.

  5. #4

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    I tend to say take 1 is with new strings. But its definitely hard to judge.

    I keep the TIs (roundwound 12s) usually for one year before changing. With new ones I hear only a slight difference in tone, a little bit more brilliant, but that is not the reason for changing.
    Reason for change is that the roundwound strings get dirty over the time, even though I don't play with dirty fingers!

  6. #5

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    1 & 2 are almost indistinguishable to me.
    If I had to guess I'd say that 1 is the old strings and 2 is the new. But honestly I can't tell a significant difference.

  7. #6

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    1 seems considerably brighter to me, so I'd guess that's the new set.

  8. #7

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    I too don't hear any differences that could just as well be due to a slightly different attitude/mood while playing (which could also "play" the other way if you were unconsciously trying to smooth out the new-string sound).

    Am I wrong thinking that the new-string-zing is mostly an acoustic phenomenon?

  9. #8

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    Hard to tell, my guess is 1st is the new.

  10. #9

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    #1 has more sparkle. I'd guess new. I don't necessarily like it better.

  11. #10

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    I'd guess 2 are the new strings, a bit more harmonically rich I think. But it is really close and I wouldn't bet on it. Yes to the longevity of the TI's. And that is some great playing.

  12. #11

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    To be honest, I was shocked at how similar new TIs sound to year old ones. Maybe the laminated top on the guitar doesn’t bring out the subtleties that we’d hear on a carved top instrument. But for whatever reason, I doubt that I could reliably and consistently tell which is which. Number 1 is the old set and number 2 is the new one.

    I agree with those who found the old ones to be brighter and the new ones to be a bit richer. But RJBV also calls it as I do, because I did consciously try hard to control my playing (often to its detriment here) and keep my right hand over the pickup for the tone I prefer. Any audible differences are so small that it could easily have been my playing alone. I was going to record the same tune the same way monthly to document the aging process. But based on this experience, I suspect it would be a waste of time.

    It’s also worth noting that the old strings are still in excellent physical condition. There are no marks from frets and no roughness at all to my fingers. I’ve been using TI JS on all my electrics for several months, and the only sign of physical deterioration has been some roughness at a few spots in the winding on the G string from my Tele after 6 months. I use that guitar for all blues dates, so the top 3 strings get bent hard and frequently in most tunes during a 3 hour show.

    The other interesting observation I can offer is that I haven’t broken a string since I switched to TI. I bend notes more than most jazz players, especially on ballads, and I play at least one 3 hour blues show every week. Between practice and gigs, I put at least 4 to 5 hours a week on each of my 3 main guitars. I pay a lot of attention to hardware because I hate breaking strings on stage. I put a Hipshot on my Tele, Tusq nuts on everybody, and great care in handling my strings. But I used to break at least one unwound string every few months on my default solid body blues instrument. I may have just jinxed it, but that seems to have slowed considerably.

    I love TI!
    Last edited by nevershouldhavesoldit; 04-20-2022 at 10:41 AM.

  13. #12

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    Next time let your wife play something simple over all strings, without telling which strings are the new ones, and also record the acoustic sound

    Quote Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
    It’s also worth noting that the old strings are still in excellent physical condition. There are no marks from frets and no roughness at all to my fingers.
    Sadly that's not my experience with the flat-wound G from the Plectrum set. I've had to replace the one from the AC111 set because of lethal wear at one of the low frets, almost as quickly as a typical plated copper nylon D string needs replacing (if I don't shift it). That was on the jumbo which has a very action at the nut; the G from the AC112 was going the same route on my archtop but I saved it by shifting (using a ball-end as a washer).

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by RJVB
    Next time let your wife play something simple
    Let my wife touch my guitars???

    A blind challenge - ID the old and new TI Jazz Swings in this audio clip-drink_muddy_water_lou_rawls-jpg

    A blind challenge - ID the old and new TI Jazz Swings in this audio clip-smiley_hysterical_6-gif

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
    A blind challenge - ID the old and new TI Jazz Swings in this audio clip-drink_muddy_water_lou_rawls-jpg
    (Careful now, you better hope she never heard of Muddy Waters ---> )

  16. #15

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    Nice playing. They don't sound the same to me but I have no idea whether the difference are form the strings aging or the 13's versus 12's. if I was pressed I'd guess that 2 was the 12's.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
    Nice playing. They don't sound the same to me but I have no idea whether the difference are form the strings aging or the 13's versus 12's. if I was pressed I'd guess that 2 was the 12's.
    Thanks, Jim. I did consider the size disparity. But I've compared new TI JS112s and 113s on my Eastman 810, and I hear little or no difference in their amplified sound. The 113s do sound a bit fuller and richer to me acoustically on my 810. But this is much less apparent on the laminated Ibanez when picked, and it's clearly there but subtle when played FS. The JS113s are a bit firmer to the touch, which I think helps my fingerstyle tone to be a bit fuller both acoustically and amplified. I can get a better purchase on the strings without pulling on them, which seems to me to give a slightly longer release that probably reduces the spectral splash from a harder attack.

    I and some others find 1 to be a bit brighter than 2, which is very interesting since 1 is the old 112s and 2 is the new 113s. I do think that the Jazz Swings seem to lose a bit of their warmth over time. This old set had a bit less sparkle when they were new, IIRC - I'd switched from Chromes and was very happy with the more mellow tone. I'll follow and record the new sets I put on my guitars over the next year to see if I / we think this is consistent.

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
    I and some others find 1 to be a bit brighter than 2, which is very interesting since 1 is the old 112s and 2 is the new 113s.
    I think it's to be expected if string ageing can be excluded: thinner strings sound brighter...

  19. #18

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    2 are new 2 are brighter but I like the sound of 1 better

  20. #19

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    I thought that 2 sounded fatter and warmer like it was a heavier gauge. 1 sounded brighter and slinkier like it was a lighter gauge string. But neither sounded dull and dead. Very nice tones, in fact.

  21. #20

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    Playability and feel are so hard to hear....

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep
    I'd guess 2 are the new strings, a bit more harmonically rich I think. But it is really close and I wouldn't bet on it. Yes to the longevity of the TI's. And that is some great playing.
    To clarify, when I said harmonically rich, I was hearing more overtones which is a good type of brightness IMO. Most noticeable to me on the 2nd example. What you're listening thru may make a difference and how young your ears are may make a difference. I'm listening on AKG K240 Studio headphones, so that's good. My ears are 64 years old, so that's not so good.

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep
    To clarify, when I said harmonically rich, I was hearing more overtones which is a good type of brightness imo.
    I agree with you, and you did correctly identify the new set. It's very interesting to me that the tonal quality of TIs varies so much with how they're picked or plucked, and that this remains pretty stable through months of regular professional use.

    My recollection (with no reference at all, because I didn't think to record them when I first put them on) is that the 112s had a bit more in their tonal spectrum when they were new. I didn't notice an obvious change at any given point over the year+ that they were in use, and I would have replaced them if there'd been a clear decline in tone or playability. But listening to them here, I think they got a bit more "treble-y" (or less "bass-y") over time. I don't recall that slight sizzle when playing the unwound strings above the 10th fret.

    I'll record our show tonight with the AF207 through the Jazz 12 and see if it sounds different in performance with the new 113s.

  24. #23

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    Hi, N,
    I don't have any experience with the brand strings you're testing but there is a very noticeable difference in the two sets. The first set had better clarity and sustain while the second set had a more muted, less-defined sound and, at times, muddy(1:01-1:10). So, I would guess the first is new and the second set is the old set. If I heard these comparisons to choose between strings, I would choose #1 since they allowed more complexity to the sound. My litmus test for worn strings is: 1.) loss of consistent intonation, loss of clarity, and loss of projection if played acoustically. For the best comparisons, I would play the identical passages back to back since differing passages have differing tonal messages. However, great post and great playing N. You have a very mature sound.
    Marinero

  25. #24

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    P.S. I just read all the previous posts so that I wouldn't be influenced by others' opinions. So, IMO, the darker sound is related to string gauge 12's vs. 13's, and age may not be a consideration. My choice would still be #1 which, for me, allows for a more versatile, balanced sound.
    Marinero

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marinero
    P.S. I just read all the previous posts so that I wouldn't be influenced by others' opinions. So, IMO, the darker sound is related to string gauge 12's vs. 13's, and age may not be a consideration. My choice would still be #1 which, for me, allows for a more versatile, balanced sound.
    Marinero
    I would have said the same thing if I hadn’t been playing the 112s for a year+. Older strings have always gotten duller over time, at least to me. So I’m amazed that a 16 month old set of 112s still has more sparkle and brightness than a new set of 113s. Even without the comparison, these TIs are truly remarkable to me.

    Thanks so much for the kind words!