The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    The seller received the guitar back via fedex on 1/21/2022 but paypal still has not refunded my money. I was worried that the seller would have one more unscrupulous "play" and it appears to be this:

    He won't verify to paypal that he received it back and the fedex, "direct signature required' form shows a different name on the signatory form than his name so paypal can't verify that he has received the guitar.

    So at this point, I am out $3300 AND the guitar.

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  3. #2

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    The person who signs must be a resident or employee. I would think this would satisfy Pay-Pal. I think you will prevail. The world moves very slowly and is full of "procedure"

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by skiboyny
    The person who signs must be a resident or employee. I would think this would satisfy Pay-Pal. I think you will prevail. The world moves very slowly and is full of "procedure"
    Fedex doesn't ask for proof of residence when they drop something off. Additionally, protocol allows the delivery person to sign for the package if the resident answers the door during covid. I know this because my delivery guy always signs for me. He waits for me to answer the door and then announces he is signing for me. It's likely that the signature on the form is from the delivery person...

  5. #4

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    I guess this might also suggest the value of some sort of escrow practice in buying instruments?

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    I guess this might also suggest the value of some sort of escrow practice in buying instruments?
    Unless you find an escrow service that knows archtops and jazz guitar and how to tell if an instrument needs a neck reset, it's unlikely to be as helpful as just buying from a reputable dealer.

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker
    Fedex doesn't ask for proof of residence when they drop something off. Additionally, protocol allows the delivery person to sign for the package if the resident answers the door during covid. I know this because my delivery guy always signs for me. He waits for me to answer the door and then announces he is signing for me. It's likely that the signature on the form is from the delivery person...
    Call me an optimist but I still think with time you will prevail. I just don't want to believe the truth loses in a contest.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by skiboyny
    Call me an optimist but I still think with time you will prevail. I just don't want to believe the truth loses in a contest.
    I do too but it's not a good situation for my blood pressure!

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker
    I do too but it's not a good situation for my blood pressure!
    I would feel the exact same way! It's going to work out, and there are no words that I can say that will change the way you are reacting. "This too shall pass"

  10. #9

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    JZ, to use Wintermoon's phrase, that stinks on ice.

    If I were you I would be leaning on my credit card company right about now. And stay on Paypal's back as well. Hopefully one of them pays you before your blood pressure gives you a stroke (I have found that a whole bunch of cat petting can be helpful to reduce that blood pressure).

    That seller is an asshat for sure. Isn't it time to reveal who he is?

  11. #10

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    Jack Z you need to either buy in person or from trusted sources from now on. I say this since you are purchasing so many guitars.
    Not worth the headaches any longer.

    Im sure you’ll prevail, but the frustration is going to continue in many of these purchases unfortunately. Hang in there Buddy!

  12. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by jads57
    Jack Z you need to either buy in person or from trusted sources from now on. I say this since you are purchasing so many guitars.
    Quote Originally Posted by jads57
    Not worth the headaches any longer.

    Im sure you’ll prevail, but the frustration is going to continue in many of these purchases unfortunately. Hang in there Buddy!


    If you can point me to a store that has a bunch of gibson archtops, benedettos, etc., i'm all ears. I mentioned this before but several friends of mine who live in manhattan have said that there aren't stores in NYC anymore that have a bunch of expensive archtops. Last time I checked gruhn's site for hollowbody electrics, there wasn't much there.

    The days of walking into an in-person store and finding a wall full of expensive archtops is gone. The guys selling archtops these days seem to be using reverb and ebay.

  13. #12

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    In my eyes their is only a few safe ways to buy a archtop these days.

    Order new with warranty from a builder

    A trusted shop like Gruhn, Gryphon, TMZ, CME, Wildwood, etc…

    Or a trusted member here.

    Reverb or EBay has too much risk for my comfort zone.

    Yes the days of walking into a music store to buy a archtop is long over.

  14. #13

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    Sorry you're going through his. Shit happens. We were recently in a bad car wreck. Idiot turned right into us and spun us around and off the road over a curb and through signs. Totaled. Wife had to be taken to the hospital via ambo. Luckily there was a fireman right behind us who stayed and helped, and gave witness to the police, completely our no-fault. Yet, the price of the same car is now around $8k more for the same car because of the car market, we will be out $8k because of that as*h***'s careless move.

  15. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
    In my eyes their is only a few safe ways to buy a archtop these days.

    Order new with warranty from a builder

    A trusted shop like Gruhn, Gryphon, TMZ, CME, Wildwood, etc…

    Or a trusted member here.

    Reverb or EBay has too much risk for my comfort zone.

    Yes the days of walking into a music store to buy a archtop is long over.
    Ordering new from a builder is no guarantee either. The web is rife with horror stories about builders and even dealers that do unscrupulous things, many of whom receive glowing accolades on this forum. Dave's Guitars sold me a 175 with a 2" crack in it. I returned it for a refund and then they procrastinated for 2 weeks prior to refunding my money. In the meantime, as soon as I sent them the return tracking number, the guitar reappeared on reverb with ZERO mention of the crack. I contacted reverb about it and they did nothing either. Dave's continues to get glowing accolades around here...

    And there are several other builders and archtop shops that folks have contacted me privately about.

    I bought a pair of extremely expensive, hand-made JCR basses from bassgears in france. They were horribly constructed. Necks were like roller coasters. Bassgears refused to allow me to return them saying that they only allow returns if the builder allows returns and JCR refused to allow a return unless I paid a 25% restocking fee. I pointed out that bassgears reverb store says 14 day return policy but they pointed out that I had bought direct and that the return policy doesn't apply. The reason I bought direct was that they messaged me privately and said they'd give me a discount if I bought direct. Because it was a well known dealer and builder, I paid with an international money order so I was basically screwed. I have put $1k into repairs and mods on these basses and they are still not done...Amazingly, bassgears still has one of the basses I bought listed on their reverb site. The bass was sold 5+ months ago. I would never have paid with money order except that bassgears and JCR are well known fixtures around talkbass and I figured they were both too big to fail. Since then, I have heard more horror stories about them.

    I also bought a bass from felton basses where I had to pay $500 up front. They were really responsive until I paid and then I couldn't get a word out of them. After a couple months, I contacted paypal and I finally got a $250 refund on it.

    In one other case, I put $500 down on a custom $3500 bass. During the build process and after all the issues I had on the above transactions, I contacted the builder and said I wasn't sure about completing the transaction due to all the issues of paying for an instrument up front. The instrument was about 3 months later getting finished and when it was finished I told him that I'd consider completing the purchase. Unfortunately, he changed the specs somewhat from what I originally ordered and wanted an additional $500 for parts who's prices went up from when I first ordered the instrument. I told him that I never formally canceled the purchase and that he needed to live up to his agreement. He ended up selling the instrument but offered to build me another one at the original price. I blew a gasket and told him that he couldn't sell "my" instrument without giving me notice in writing and give me a chance to complete it and I had to threaten to out him in the custom bass community and he finally refunded my deposit.

    It's an ugly world out there for boutique instruments. I think the *ONLY* safe way to buy an instrument is - as you said - from a reputable dealer that you know for sure will stand behind an evaluation period, or from someone you know who will do the same...

  16. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Sound
    Sorry you're going through his. Shit happens. We were recently in a bad car wreck. Idiot turned right into us and spun us around and off the road over a curb and through signs. Totaled. Wife had to be taken to the hospital via ambo. Luckily there was a fireman right behind us who stayed and helped, and gave witness to the police, completely our no-fault. Yet, the price of the same car is now around $8k more for the same car because of the car market, we will be out $8k because of that as*h***'s careless move.
    UGH, so sorry to hear that. I hope your wife is recovering OK. I know people who have been in situations with car accidents where the other person caused a huge amount of damage and the other driver was uninsured so there is that risk as well...

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker
    UGH, so sorry to hear that. I hope your wife is recovering OK. I know people who have been in situations with car accidents where the other person caused a huge amount of damage and the other driver was uninsured so there is that risk as well...
    Everything is covered by both companies because we were not at fault, but the price of a new car over the one we had just bought one year ago is $8k more now because of the car market supply. My wife is thinking of hiring a lawyer, I think it will do no good.

  18. #17

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    Jack you will prevail in the end PayPal will make it right. They are slow but they cannot risk the damage this will do.

    A good point that right now the only way to get a high end archtop is mutual trust. High end dealers with good reputations are fine. What is for sale on reverb is a bunch of landmines ready to explode if you step wrong.

    If I buy a guitar I must talk directly with seller. Just yesterday I called about a 1954 Dangelico NY on reverb. I find out he is selling for an elderly friend. The guy listed he lived In Illinois. I thought great, I can just drive and check it out. Well no turns out the guitar is in Georgia with the real owner but of course this seller on reverb can get it.

    No thanks and he did not know huge amounts of information. So here a potential guitar worth 25$k and this is what you get.

    It is always buyer beware but at the moment that statement is an understatement for sure. Play the 175 it possibly will help you blood pressure.

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Sound
    Everything is covered by both companies because we were not at fault, but the price of a new car over the one we had just bought one year ago is $8k more now because of the car market supply. My wife is thinking of hiring a lawyer, I think it will do no good.
    Very sorry for your auto accident and hope that you and your wife recover fully. You might want to consider at least speaking with a local and reputable law firm to help you with this issue.

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker
    The seller received the guitar back via fedex on 1/21/2022 but paypal still has not refunded my money. I was worried that the seller would have one more unscrupulous "play" and it appears to be this:

    He won't verify to paypal that he received it back and the fedex, "direct signature required' form shows a different name on the signatory form than his name so paypal can't verify that he has received the guitar.

    So at this point, I am out $3300 AND the guitar.
    Keep after this jerk and keep the pressure on Paypal and your credit card company!

  21. #20
    paypal now says they will make a decision in 42 hours

  22. #21

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    Fingers crossed for you, Jack.

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stringswinger
    ... That seller is an asshat for sure. Isn't it time to reveal who he is?
    I'm not a lawyer, but I imagine that the seller could accuse JZ of slander/libel (I'm not sure which, as it would likely be published on the Internet). Fighting such an accusation could be more expensive than the bath that JZ is currently suffering.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by dconeill
    I'm not a lawyer, but I imagine that the seller could accuse JZ of slander/libel (I'm not sure which, as it would likely be published on the Internet). Fighting such an accusation could be more expensive than the bath that JZ is currently suffering.
    I am a lawyer and can say that truth is an absolute defense against slander/libel.

    Sure, anyone can sue anyone in the American legal system, but should we all live in fear of that and let bad actors prey on others?

    I think not.

  25. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Stringswinger
    I am a lawyer and can say that truth is an absolute defense against slander/libel.

    Sure, anyone can sue anyone in the American legal system, but should we all live in fear of that and let bad actors prey on others?

    I think not.
    True but the expenses of defending a lawsuit are still there. I once posted a story about a famous amp-maker who's amp caught on fire on stage during a televised concert. Unfortunately, I named the maker in the posting. He contacted me AT MY PLACE OF EMPLOYMENT and threated me with a lawsuit. I replied that there was tv footage of his amp catching fire and that he couldn't possibly win a lawsuit. He explained that his partner was an attorney and that he would throw the kitchen sink at me and ensure i'd spend ten$ of thou$and$ defending the lawsuit unless I deleted my posting...

  26. #25

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    My hope is that you'll get your money back. But you will never get your time back or compensation for the stress.

    Here's my recent Reverb story. This listing popped up. It seemed too good to be true. I quickly googled the lister's name. He's a schoolmaster in Denmark. I searched the guitar images for them being recently lifted from the web. They didn't show up. It was sold by Lovie's in about 2012. So it was possible buy not likely to be valid.

    2003 Gibson Memphis ES-345 Stereo Semi-Hollow Guitar Heritage | Reverb

    I used PP. I contacted the seller by messaging. He responded promptly and said he'd ship Monday since the purchase was Friday night. He promised to send a tracking number. I got a FedEx number from him Monday. It was shipped from Reno, NV to my hometown. So far, so good. I called FedEx to see if it was listed as a guitar. The guy said it came from a sporting goods store and weighs 2 lbs. He also said it was going to my hometown but not to my address.

    PP was very helpful. They had to give him 10 days to get the guitar to me and told him so. Of course that didn't happen. I told the agent I suspected it was fraud because the price was so low. She said that was far from a certainty and that everyday she sees ridiculously low price things that are real. I got my money refunded on the 10th day.

    I did ask the agent what the point was for someone to do this. He knew he wasn't going to send me the guitar and that I would just ask PP for a refund. She said some people just like to cause trouble for fun.

    I tell this story because I've had my share of misadventures and frustrations. This one I didn't worry much about and enjoyed leaving highly negative feedback for.

    Your doorway signature scam is a puzzler.

    Normally I'm not a proponent of street justice. Normally.