The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
Reply to Thread Bookmark Thread
Posts 1 to 17 of 17
  1. #1

    User Info Menu

    Attachment 87993

    Ibanez 2355 neck issue?-screenshot_20220120_104303_fr-leboncoin-jpg

    Ibanez 2355 neck issue?-screenshot_20220120_104514-jpg

    Ibanez 2355 neck issue?-screenshot_20220120_104541-jpg

    Hello guys

    I'm looking at this Ibanez 2355.
    Interested, pretty good price.
    But I'm a bit skeptical with the neck joint, cap that is crumbling, and necj that seems to have moved a bit, it seems.
    The seller tells me the neck is straight, and the crack is in the finish.
    What do you think? The guitar is at 1300€.

    Otherwise I found an Es165, 1995, set pickup version with 2 knobs, at 2000€. The neck has had a repair (seems fine), and guitar in good condition otherwise. Maybe better than the Ibanez?
    Thanks for your advice!


    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
  3. #2

    User Info Menu

    Oups I missed the most important photo

    Ibanez 2355 neck issue?-screenshot_20220120_104434_fr-leboncoin-jpg

    Ibanez 2355 neck issue?-screenshot_20220120_103930_fr-leboncoin-jpg

    We can see the neck angle at the right, just like if it has moved slightly?

  4. #3

    User Info Menu

    It looks to me like the neck might beseparating from the body on one side, but I can't tell what's going on from the pictures for sure. Unfortunately, sellers sometimes misrepresent exactly this sort of damage (many stories of that here). If it is separating, and if the funny angle actually does affect playability, that's potentially a very expensive repair.

    if there's a no-questions-asked return policy, it might be worth the risk of trying it. But my instinct would be to look for something else. Those are cool guitars, but not magically, uniquely so. There are lots of 175-like objects out there in unambiguously good condition.

    Regarding the 165, basically the same thought. Assuming we're talking about a headstock break, that's common with Gibsons, as are good repairs. So these can be good deals. But you need to be able to see it, and return it if it's no good.

  5. #4

    User Info Menu

    I've just checked the ad on zikinf to have better res pics
    IMO there's a neck reset coming soon !
    => Run away !

  6. #5

    User Info Menu

    Thanks very much for for your advice.
    That's also my impression, I'd better not take the risk.
    The price is good, but potential problems might be the reason for that price.
    I looked a few Gibson Es 175, with crazy prices well above 3000€ for most. When asking precise photos, the instruments are far from good shape.. Paying high price for a reasonable good condition Es175 could make it for me. But so far it hasn't been the case for the 3 that might have interested me.
    Very complicated to find a good deal for Gibson Archtops these days.
    The prices are pretty crazy in my opinion.
    I'd like to find the one guitar I'll keep, but maybe the market isn't the best at this moment?
    Or will the prices continue rising?
    Difficult to tell?

    I found other options :

    A Gibson L4 CES from 2003 at 4000€. That is a very big amount of money for me, but the guitar looks in very good condition

    A Tokai FA245 in blonde and perfect condition for 2130€.
    Maybe it's the best option, since it's a dead copy of the Gibson Es175 and very well built in Japan. Will it have the Gibson feel?

    As for the Gibson Es165 with the headstock repair, I managed to lower the price from 2800€ to 2000€, but I can't help but feel kind as if I'd get buyers remorse as soon as I pull the trigger. I want a pristine instrument if I put that kind of money in a guitar.

    Maybe the Tokai FA245 is the best bet? It is like new.

  7. #6

    User Info Menu

    Ibanez 2355 neck issue?-screenshot_20220120_172011-jpg

    Here is the Tokai FA245.
    The finish is nitrocellulose.

  8. #7

    User Info Menu

    I’m a big fan of Ibanez and gibson too
    But like the old Smokey Robinson songs say it best

    there’s too many fish in the sea

    Shop Around
    try to get yourself a bargain son don’t be sold on the very first one

    keep looking around and find yourself a guitar that doesn’t have a headstock break repair because that might be OK to you but if you ever want to flip the guitar at some point it’s gonna slow down the sale real bad for a majority of the people that might be interested

    and the same thing with the Ibanez

    keep looking and good luck

    Last edited by Crm114; 01-20-2022 at 03:51 PM.

  9. #8

    User Info Menu

    Thanks very much for your wise advice Big. Really appreciate it

  10. #9

    User Info Menu

    Heel caps, especially of that vintage, will undergo shrinkage and it looks like neck separation but it's often and a majority of the time, just the heel cap itself. Best judge of alignment is the position of the neck as seen from the side, look for cracks in the finish along the neck/body join. If that's intact and smooth, I'd say it's good.
    Also by sighting down the neck in relation to the strings you can pretty well tell if something wonky.

    That being said, that's old generation Ibanez. Try it. A/B it with others including post 1980 Ibanezes. These immediate post lawsuit guitars have an exciting historical cache, but my actual playing experience tends towards Meh...overbuilt early copy phenomenon.

    Good luck finding a guitar you can love!

  11. #10

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Jx30510
    Ibanez 2355 neck issue?-screenshot_20220120_172011-jpg

    Here is the Tokai FA245.
    The finish is nitrocellulose.
    Well that's a new one on me. Not poly? Hmmmm. No crazing? No light and colour change in the curing after how many years? That kind of poly blonde after that many years... yeah I've met blondes that claimed it was all natural too.
    Just further comment.

  12. #11

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Jx30510
    As for the Gibson Es165 with the headstock repair, I managed to lower the price from 2800€ to 2000€, but I can't help but feel kind as if I'd get buyers remorse as soon as I pull the trigger. I want a pristine instrument if I put that kind of money in a guitar.
    Raising a red flag for you to keep in mind. Headstock repairs are dicey. They may all look good but you DO NOT KNOW the quality of the repair. There is one way the fibres of that tree grew. That's for strength. THere's only one way the parts were joined initially. That's for strength. There are many ways a break or damage can occur on a headstock, and they all involve a huge amount of shock trauma localized on the one are of maximum torque, sheer and momentary force resistance. That guitar has been through something it was never meant to go through...and it was repaired.
    There are many ways a GOOD headstock repair may be executed. Here are some ways it may not:
    You leave it a while and the open grain lines- it's not repaired immediately after the break. Open exposed grain, as jagged and torn as they are, do oxidize. It's natural. It also causes a boundry to optimum glue adhesion.
    You don't clean it out perfectly, and tiny wood pieces come between the two matching surfaces. It may feel like a fit, but it's got something preventing a perfect fit and on a neck, you don't want to mess with imperfect.
    You use a glue that's not perfect or it's not clamped, or jigged, or joined to assure the right amount of surface to surface pressure that maintains the orientation of force originally on those fibres, and the glue itself is taking on the job of the wood. Also use the wrong type of glue, and if it should ever re-break, you don't get a second chance.

    Those are just three things that make a perfect looking repair but underlie dangerously fatal compromises to the integrity of the guitar.

    Just sayin' my two cents. I do this for a living. I've seen it.

  13. #12

    User Info Menu

    I would add to all of the above that there are bazillion threads here on subjects such as "best bargain ES-175 clone" "ES-175 copy" "[guitar X] vs 175" etc, as well as on specific models (such as Epiphone ES-175 Premium, Guild X-150, Ibanez 2355 or FA100, Aria Herb Ellis and EA-650, Seventy-Seven Hawk, Greco, Tokai, Eastman ar371 or ar372, etc.). If the OP is looking to buy a guitar that is like a 175 in some combination of specs, appearance, and tone without spending ES-175 (or 165) money, the best thing is to search for these threads to get a sense of opinions and experiences. One thing to note is that the site's search feature doesn't really work. It works better to go to google, and type in a search term (e.g., ES-175 clone) followed by

  14. #13

    User Info Menu

    I've encountered a headstock break on a Gibson Advanced Jumbo.
    The first repair was clumsy for sure, because it broke a second time very quickly.
    I had it repaired by the same luthier a second time.. It snapped of third time while stocked in it's case!
    The 3rd repair was done by and old guy that seemed very expert in Gibson headstock repairs (he wasn't even a luthier). He used the old glue that Gibson uses, hide glue of some sort.. I was there with him when he repaired it, and he kept moaning against inexperienced luthiers during the process.. Quite a funny moment in a way.
    When the job was done I sold immediately the guitar for a very low price to and other old guy, after explaining to him all the 3 headstock breaks it had been thru. I just couldn't keep the guitar, almost terrorized to even touch it.
    Rembering this today, and writing about it.. Well I'll definitely pass on that Es165..

    The Tokai FA245 is a 2021, and is lacquer. That's what says the specs on the Tokai website
    Anyone has tried the Tokai?
    The pictures show a really pristine and beautifully built instrument.
    I'm not that stuck on absolutely getting a Gibson. If the Tokai is as good as a Gibson, I don't really care for the name on the headstock.
    My plan is not to sell it, I want a keeper. If one day a resale occurs, I don't think it will loose that much value.
    You know, Epiphone ES 175 Premiums are selling over a 1000€ these days.. I've even seen some at 1200€ recently, trying to ride on the archtop price rise hype of the time.
    A bit crazy in my point of view

  15. #14

    User Info Menu

    Ibanez 2355 neck issue?-screenshot_20220120_212253-jpg

    Here are the FA245 specs on the Tokai website
    It says nitrocellulose finish
    The specs are spot on the original Gibson Es175.
    If the pickups aren't top of the line I have a set of SD Seth Lovers, and Gibson Classic 57..

    If anyone has had the opportunity to try this guitar, or any of the Tokai Premium series, I'd be interested to read your comments

  16. #15

    User Info Menu

    Go for the Tokai. They're well built and for a non-Gibson, this one of the better headstock scripts. Mahogany neck a big plus.

  17. #16

    User Info Menu

    Yes go for the Tokai
    a buddy of mine has one and he really likes it

  18. #17

    User Info Menu

    That's what I'm going to choose I think
    I'll report

    Thanks for the advice, as always on jazzguitar. be