The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    I have a barrington archtop that I was considering selling but it has a buzzing or vibration that is significant enough to come through the amp. It only vibrates for about a 1/2 second so it's painful to diagnose but it happens on an open D at least so that makes it a tiny bit easier. I want to add that it's not just this note that makes it vibrate. Having it happen on the open D allows me to lay the guitar down, hit the note with one hand while the other hand dampens a part of the guitar.

    I have not taken the pickups out but I have tried holding onto the tailpiece, top, pickguard, brackets, pickups, pickup rings, pots, as much of the wiring and pots as I can grab through the F Holes, etc., and nothing seems to make any difference. I used a flexible usb camera to look around inside and I do not see any loose bracing, no wires touching the top, back or sides. I don't see any cracks, inside or outside.

    What should the next step of diagnosis be?

    [UPDATE]

    I've found where the buzzing is coming from. Probably should have given the guitar a physical inspection first.

    This crack and the accompanying loose top ply is causing the problem. If I touch it while hitting the notes that cause the vibration the vibration stops. I tried putting masking tape on it but it didn't solve the issue. I looked inside the body with my USB Snake camera and the crack doesn't go through. It's only in the top layer of plywood. You might think from the picture that there glue there but it's just an optical illusion. In reality, the finish is chipped out of that area. Looks like an old injury that happened prior to my obtaining the instrument. Another great reverb purchase, lol...

    So it may be that putting some superglue or epoxy on that area would cure the issue. I might try packing tape which is stickier than masking tape next...

    Diagnosing a buzz or vibration in an archtop?-crack-jpg
    Last edited by jzucker; 02-04-2022 at 02:19 PM.

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  3. #2

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    Open d string? Nut cut too low? Sitar type buzz?

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by skiboyny
    Open d string? Nut cut too low? Sitar type buzz?
    it's not just the open D. That's the easiest way to diagnose it. Happens on many notes. The setup is good.

  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker
    it's not just the open D. That's the easiest way to diagnose it. Happens on many notes. The setup is good.
    They can be tough to track down for sure. You didn't mention the tuners, screws nuts. Make sure they are all tight. You can tap on the back of the neck to make sure the truss isn't rattling or neck too straight. Rest assured there is a reason. Good luck tracking it down.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by skiboyny
    They can be tough to track down for sure. You didn't mention the tuners, screws nuts. Make sure they are all tight. You can tap on the back of the neck to make sure the truss isn't rattling or neck too straight. Rest assured there is a reason. Good luck tracking it down.
    Thanks, i'll check those again but it seems to me the vibration is coming from the body itself but I know it can be misleading...

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker
    Thanks, i'll check those again but it seems to me the vibration is coming from the body itself but I know it can be misleading...
    Neck problems can for sure can sound like they are coming from the body. That's what makes them so difficult to track down. You will find it.

  8. #7

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    I'm no sound engineer but it sounds like there's a 'sympathetic frequency thing' (that's a tech term) going on.

    My first thought was your truss rod.

    With the knowledge on this forum I'm sure you'll get to the bottom of this and let us know.

  9. #8

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    When this happens I usually ask my wife to play that resonant note and try to locate the spot by ear, listening very close and moving around. I like to use the chopstick to hold suspect part in place. #1 issue for me are the TOM saddles.

  10. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by burchyk
    When this happens I usually ask my wife to play that resonant note and try to locate the spot by ear, listening very close and moving around. I like to use the chopstick to hold suspect part in place. #1 issue for me are the TOM saddles.
    Rosewood bridge on this one...

  11. #10

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    Jack put your guitar out on a flat surface. Then get it to vibrate maybe the open string. Then have a set off different lengths of felt or similar to start placing around in possible places of vibration. First the the tailpiece and wrap it all in left. Then go around the pickups and knobs with the felt or even a piece of cloth or tissue paper. The idea is you are sleuth and trying to eliminate potential spots of vibration by suppressing the vibrations with the felt or whatever you use. Maybe in this order

    Tailpiece
    Pickguard and bracket
    Pickups but you may even need to take them up so you can stuff cotton around them
    The machines heads ( tuning keys)
    Go around and tighten all the screws on the guitar. (my Super400 will buzz if the trust rod cover is not tight to peghead face)
    Wires inside the guitar running around inside that hit the top.

    It really is just a painstaking process that can take time. Yes truss rods inside can buzz but rare.
    In the event you cannot narrow it down the drastic action is to fill the guitar with something that dampens the sound of the top and back see if that does it.
    Another trick is to take a Jorgenson clamp or similar and clamp at different place on the top and back or even the headstock. Put felt on the places to avoid marks
    It is a process of elimination and anyone can do with patience.

  12. #11

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    Here's another trick involving a mic and headphones. Works well with a dynamic due to the low sensitivity. Plug your mic and headphones into your preamp of choice. Strike the offending string (or have someone else do it), and move the mic around until you can pinpoint the source. Works like a charm. It won't work as well with a high sensitivity mic because it will pick up the buzz from a further distance, which means you are more likely to incorrectly diagnose the source of the buzz.

    I did this with a guitar years ago and managed to discover that there was a loose brace. Stuck my finger in the fhole and held the brace in place while striking the string again and confirmed the diagnosis. Got the brace glued back and that was that.

  13. #12

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    I've seen this a couple of times when it turned out to be the amp, or something in the room vibrating. Once I spent hours trying to track down the vibration in a guitar/amp, and it turned out to be something in the room vibrating sympathetically. I could have sworn it was coming from the guitar, but it wasn't. A quick way to check that is to move the amp to another room. It's not the most common cause, but it can happen. All sorts of loose objects, in all sorts of places, can be the culprit. I've seen it happen with loose screws on the headstock holding the tuner shafts in place, nuts and washers everywhere, including the pickguard, loose wires inside the body vibrating against the top and back, there are so many possibilities that it can take a lot of time to find the cause. There are at least a couple of threads here on the forum discussing the problem.

  14. #13

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    I've had that on a few archtops. In one, it's one of the knobs. Doesn't feel loose, but is apparently loose enough to vibrate intermittently. On the other, it's the p/u selector switch. Once again, not all the time. I think I was lucky to find the causes ... a lot inside the guitar that can vibrate too.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker
    it's not just the open D. That's the easiest way to diagnose it. Happens on many notes. The setup is good.
    Per Occam's Razor, the simplest answer is usually the correct one - so it's more likely to be one problem than two. But given that it occurs at multiple frequencies on multiple strings, it's possible that more than one problem is causing this.

    Assuming it's only one (which is most likely), the device I find most useful is a mechanic's stethosope. They're only a few dollars, but you can make one from a standard stethoscope by affixing a short rod (wood, metal, or plastic - it doesn't matter) to the center of the diaphragm of a cheap medical stethoscope with cyanoacrylate.

    Diagnosing a buzz or vibration in an archtop?-mechanics_stethoscope-jpg
    Gently place the tip of the probe on multiple spots around the instrument and the source will probably be the loudest location. You can run it along the rims against top and bottom, over braces etc, then put it on the bridge, tailpiece, tuners, nut, jack, pots etc until you find the source. To protect the wood, I slip a 25 cent plastic end cap over the tip of the probe.

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker
    …it has a buzzing or vibration that is significant enough to come through the amp. It only vibrates for about a 1/2 second so it's painful to diagnose



    What should the next step of diagnosis be?
    Ugh. Agree with sgosnell. Hearing it through amp gives me pause. I have had some really weird experiences with vibrations that appear to be coming from the amp or guitar that end up actually being some sympathetic vibration from some other object in the room.

    Not to discount anyone else’s diagnosis, but if you have the means to play the guitar through a looper and loop the bad notes, then you can walk around the room to see if there’s not some odd ventriloquism happening. Or, maybe record direct just to confirm that the vibration is actually present in the electrical signal before you start futzing with mechanical stuff on the guitar itself.

    Story time:

    Once, I swore a vibration was coming from the amp, but it was actually one slat on some window blinds clear across the room. I have also had some solder bouncing around inside the cavity between the baffle and the grill cloth that sounded like a robotic phased reverb. Another time, one of the metal clips for securing my amp stand was vibrating against the metal of the stand. Enough to drive you mad tracking some of these things down.

  17. #16

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    Among other things, I once had a buzz caused by a worn shaft in the tone control on a guitar. It took awhile to track it down. Winding a small rubber band around the shaft solved the problem temporarily, but a new pot took care of it long-term. I continue to be surprised by the things that can cause buzz/distortion with electric guitars.

  18. #17

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    Truss rod?

    Does the position of the guitar make a difference? That is, horizontal in your lap vs vertical like it was hanging on a wall? If so, that might suggest something like truss rod.

    I don't claim to know what I'm talking about, but this is easy and costs nothing.

  19. #18
    haven't spent a lot of time on it lately but I did take it to a different room, laid it down on the bed and i can get it to happen. It happens acoustically or through the amp. At this point, I'll probably take it to my repairman but unfortunately, he's booked for months!

  20. #19

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    No need to wait for months and then pay someone to do what you can do yourself. It can take time and patience, but carefully checking everything on and inside the guitar, while damping one thing at a time, should eventually show the culprit. If you don't have the time and/or patience, do what you think is best.

  21. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell
    No need to wait for months and then pay someone to do what you can do yourself. It can take time and patience, but carefully checking everything on and inside the guitar, while damping one thing at a time, should eventually show the culprit. If you don't have the time and/or patience, do what you think is best.
    I spent 20 minutes today. I went as far as I could go. There is nothing on the outside of the instrument causing the problem and nothing that I could reach from the F Holes causing the problem. I can only get to a single volume control through the F hole. I cannot get to the bridge ground wire, the neck tone, bridge vol or tone, jack wiring or selector switch which is in the upper bout.

    However, I did ascertain that it's coming from the general area of the pots or wiring area. Yes, I could take all that stuff out but then it gets really awkward to put them back and I vowed never to do that again in a hollowbody that doesn't have a rear access panel.

  22. #21

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    I once had a guitar that made a similar sound to what you describe. It turned out that the neck pickup was too close to the strings and the magnetic pull caused a strange resonance. It wasn't there unless I plucked pretty firmly, and it was primarily the G string. It also gave the guitar a faintly honky sound.

  23. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
    I once had a guitar that made a similar sound to what you describe. It turned out that the neck pickup was too close to the strings and the magnetic pull caused a strange resonance. It wasn't there unless I plucked pretty firmly, and it was primarily the G string. It also gave the guitar a faintly honky sound.
    this is definitely coming from the area of the instrument around the pots. I'm guessing it's either a wire that's touching the top or a lose brace. I think i'm going to take it to my repairman at this point.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker
    this is definitely coming from the area of the instrument around the pots. I'm guessing it's either a wire that's touching the top or a lose brace. I think i'm going to take it to my repairman at this point.
    I’m just a wee bit skeptical that a mechanical noise from a wire or a brace would come through the amp unless you have a piezo pickup.

    If it truly is coming from a pot and your knobs have set screws, one could be loose without feeling it in the knob.

  25. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
    I’m just a wee bit skeptical that a mechanical noise from a wire or a brace would come through the amp unless you have a piezo pickup.

    If it truly is coming from a pot and your knobs have set screws, one could be loose without feeling it in the knob.
    the knobs and nuts are tight. The knobs are pressed onto knurled shafts. If you tap on the pickups you can hear it through the amp so it stands to reason, that other acoustic properties would also be transmitted...

  26. #25

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    Twenty minutes isn't a lot of time even for an experienced tech to find a buzz. But if you've bailed on your investigation, not much else to do until you can get it to the shop. Hope he finds it quickly and the fix is cheap.