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Any pictures before the sale that might show that area?
Originally Posted by jzucker
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01-15-2022 10:28 AM
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Not really but as I said, he admits that it was like this before he shipped it but neglected to disclose it. I trusted him even without the details because we had a very detailed discussion about the condition and because he was a "name" player. Originally Posted by skiboyny
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"name player" doesn't automatically = good human. I would think anyone selling a guitar like that would have to point it out even if it's not a function problem. Originally Posted by jzucker
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Right about "name player" but usually guys who have a public persona are concerned about their reputation and will back up a sale with a return if something was not disclosed. Accidents happen and folks forget things but a reputable business with a public name usually stands behind their transactions. Originally Posted by skiboyny
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S***t happened, so sorry! I predicted a heel crack but had something hairline-like and climate-induced in mind. This is a canyon. A big shame on the seller, but the maker also has some explaining to do. Is the neck solidly glued in place? If so, how can such a gaping crack exist in the first place? Of course, this is repairable, but the seller shouldn't get away with this. You aren't exactly Mr Nobody either.
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Could there have been a fault in the original finish? Maybe the varnish didn't adhere to the wood and instead formed an unsupported meniscus that overlaid the joint, breaking away as the finish became more brittle with age.
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I’m not a luthier, so this is an innocent observation from an experienced guitarist. If that’s present and symmetric on both sides of the neck joint and (as seems to be the case in that one picture) it runs around the heel, it makes me wonder if the neck was removed and reset. If so, whether it was intentional (eg to correct an action problem, a neck problem etc) or unintentional from accident or joint loosening, it’s a critical piece of info that should have been identified by a “name player” and disclosed to potential buyers if left as pictured.
Assuming the structural integrity of the neck/body unit is intact, that doesn’t look like a big deal for a luthier to clean up and spot refinish the area. As it’s a very fine instrument, I’m amazed that a decent shop wouldn’t have done that before reselling it unless it’s a much more involved fix than it seems.
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Here are some additional photos. The issue is that the seller should have disclosed these prior to the sale.
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Just horrible. Very sorry Jack. I feel your pain.
Another nightmare to deal with.
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Yeah, I agree with this, especially for such an expensive item. You're really getting snakebit lately. Hope you can get this one sorted out. Originally Posted by jzucker
Last edited by John A.; 01-15-2022 at 03:11 PM.
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JZ, you are doing a hell of a job convincing me to not buy any more guitars unless I can do it locally.
Good luck working it out. At least Gruhn did things right for you on the 175.
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Yes, gruhn are the good guys. Interesting side note. I bought the used yamaha SA2200 from empire music. Bridge pickup no longer works. I don't expect the dealer to fix because it was a consigned item but it's just another example that when you buy used you should always ask yourself why the seller is selling and be willing to put money into repairs. It's not always what it seems... At this point, unless you are buying a 50 year old guitar and are knowingly being responsible for repair work, you have to ask yourself if a $500 savings is worth it? Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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Maybe we all gear heads and chronic GAS-addicts should take a lesson: if something looks too good to pass, it probably isn't.
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Or - a harder lesson - Unless you personally know the person you are buying from, assume they are lying and ask yourself if you'd be better off spending the 25% additional money to get a new one with warranty and an established business standing behind it. In this case, I thought he was an established business but I didn't know him personally even though we have a lot of common friends and both studied with Pat Martino, lol. I guess Pat only takes you so far... Originally Posted by Gitterbug
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It's all a matter of probability. There are many ways to reduce the probability of buying a problem, but there's no way to completely eliminate that risk. The best dealers (like Gruhn) get top dollar for their wares because they assume the bulk of that risk and will assist you with problems they couldn't reasonably have known existed. You pick up the risk above baseline in rough proportion to the amount of money you "saved" on the purchase price of a seemingly identical instrument. Originally Posted by jzucker
Like everything else, many guitars and amplifiers are sold because they have intermittent problems with which the owner doesn't want to bother. Others have flaws that are either unnoticed by or not bothersome to the owner / seller. And still others have major flaws that were "repaired" on the cheap with the intent to resell before they resurfaced. The purchase price of an object might better be considered the entry price, as the total cost of ownership can be much higher.
Arranging a pre-sale examination by a competent luthier near the seller at your cost will signficantly reduce the risk of buying a problem. A personal inspection period with return privileges at pre-stated cost is another way to reduce the risk. Asking for a specific set of high resolution photos is yet another. But none of this will identify an elusive, intermittent problem. If you pay for an independent inspection, restocking and shipping if returned, etc, you're buying an "option" on the purchase. You can let that option expire or you can exercise it. But agreeing to the costs up front, in order to make a more educated decision about buying it, obligates you to pay those costs if you don't end up taking it.
That "$500 savings" to which you refer is not really saving you anything if it comes at the cost of the integrity, responsiveness, and meaningful action of a responsible seller.
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The Bible states that a good name is worth more than diamond and rubies. Shame on the seller.
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I'm with you. Although he's a bit wordy, Shakespeare said it best for me: Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
"Good name in man and woman, dear my lord, Is the immediate jewel of their souls: Who steals my purse steals trash; 'tis something, nothing; 'Twas mine, 'tis his, and has been slave to thousands: But he that filches from me my good name Robs me of that which not enriches him And makes me poor indeed."
“That which we call a rose by any other name would smell just as sweet.”
Smart dealers understand the simple fact that none of us buys just one guitar in a lifetime. If their goal is to sell for a quick buck, they'll have to reach every potential buyer in the market if they only sell one to each. Customer loyalty and repeat business are an inseparable pair.
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I can't tell from the picture whether the neck is separated or whether it's just finish issues. Makes no difference in terms of the disclosure Originally Posted by jzucker
problem. But if the guitar is otherwise great, maybe it's something you can live with.
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It's a separation for sure. The finish separation at the neck is something you see pretty often and indicates the guitar took a jarring impact. It sometimes means nothing, sometimes means the neck has been reset, sometimes means that it's an issue that will get worse. Hard to tell without having a luthier examine it. Originally Posted by John A.
But the crack at the headstock is more concerning because there's absolutely no stress on that joint that would cause that type of crack without there actually being separation in the laminations of the neck - and that's assuming the crack even lines up with a glue joint. I have an email out to benedetto owner and their repairman. The owner (Howard Paul) and I are friends on FB and I featured him as artist of the week in my group there so he asked me to send he and his repair-guy photos which I've done.
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It's cool of him to do that. Hope that helps smoothe out the situation with the seller. Originally Posted by jzucker
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This makes me sick. I'm truly sorry you have to deal with this.
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Good service doesn’t end after the sale. Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
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Yes, that is my assumption. (lying or deceit). The fact that the person has some "notoriety" means nothing. Not in my experiences. And yes, I think it is better spending a little more and having some certainty in getting what you want. More importantly, KNOWING that you can return the instrument without worry. Originally Posted by jzucker
None of these guitar purchase experiences you have described are surprising to me. I've had several of my own over the years such that I really only deal with a few people. But, I don't buy gear any more.
He knew of cracks at the base of the neck and didn't mention it? That is Pathetic, man. hahaha!
Maybe he won't notice? Shhhhhh.......
I have a 1946 Epiphone archtop that doesn't have those problems.
You shouldn't even think about that or repairs etc. Send it back, man. Order one from Benedetto, life is short.
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he said he's refuse receipt on it if I sent it back so now it's up to paypal Originally Posted by PDeville
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What??? Oh jeez. What an ******* ! Originally Posted by jzucker
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