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The recent thread on general tuning problems prompted me to seek advice specifically in relation to my Comins GCS1 ES. Like Roger (RPjazzguitar) my Comins needs tuning more (I think) than is normal, as in fairly much every song. For me, the guitar is close to perfect in terms of body size and neck shape/size, and since I replaced the the pickups with some custom wound humbuckers from a local builder, the sound for jazz, rock, whatever is superb. However the tuning instability is driving me crazy (I am a bit OCD about being in tune!). I will take it to a luthier, however there are none around here that I have used previously so I would like to go armed with a bit of knowledge.
I know some of you have, or have had, either the GCS1 or GCS1 ES, so is it a common problem? Has anyone changed tuners, had the nut re-done, changed/modified the bridge? I don't believe weather conditions here are a factor so I have some concerns if none of the 'standard' tweaks fix the issue, then it could be an issue with the neck fitting. I also don't think it is a string issue, I have stayed around the 11-50 size that came with the guitar but have gone up and down in gauges with no improvement.
Any advice is appreciated but I would prefer to hear only from those who have had, or played a Comins and either don't have any tuning problems and/or have successfully fixed any problems.
Thanks
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01-04-2022 06:39 AM
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Have you given Bill a call?
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I use thinner strings than the strings it came with except for high E.
Nut sauce didn't help.
I replaced the bridge because of a different issue (Bill sent me one), but it didn't make a difference. That was a certain fizz in the upper registers of the high E string. If I turn down the treble I don't hear it. Tuning stability was not affected.
An issue which may be my technique or amplification is that sometimes high notes seem to be too quiet and don't ring as clearly as I'd like. I don't here this acoustically, just amplified.
Extreme temperature sensitivity?
Please post if you figure it out.Last edited by rpjazzguitar; 01-04-2022 at 05:35 PM.
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I bought a used blonde Comins GCS1-ES a couple of months ago, but it came really as new.
No issue to be found yet and I like this guitar very much. It needs to be tuned when I pick it after a few days like all my other guitars.
I still wonder what kind of strings I'll put on it next time. Roundwounds now (probably original !), but I'll try some flatwounds and convert my G ES339 back to roundwounds.
With this Comins, the Gibson will lose a lot of playing time !
Happy owner I am !
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I don't have any drastic problem with the tuning of mine...of course that in a change of temperature and humidity the wood "works" a little...also it's like that with my 175, epiphone 339...in the comins I use 12 , 15, 18, 28, 38, 49. As well as rpjazzguitar, I also feel an imbalance between the high and low strings...I tried to adjust it with heavier strings and with the poles of the pickups...but it's something of the instrument, it sounds like that!
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I don't have this issue on my GCS or GCS-1. As mentioned above, give Bill a call and I'm sure he will take care of it.
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doubt it's anything like the bridge, tuners, nut, etc. My fender clone has a trem bridge, the cheapest tuners, nut, string tree imaginable and I was shocked that after 3 months not playing it and even during the winter, it was almost perfectly in tune. I'm guessing it has more to do with the flexibility of either the neck joint or the body itself. I had an '89 175 that never drifted out of tune but the '72 I had drifted quite often. Not excessively but I was surprised at the difference.
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I've gotten in the habit of reaching under the strings and pulling them upward, away from the body of the guitar. If I check tuning and then pull the strings like that, and then check tuning again, the guitar will usually be better tuned. That is, pulling the strings helps the tuning.
My first thought was that I was overcoming some resistance at the nut or bridge. I sanded the nut slots gently, but that didn't help. Replacing the bridge didn't help.
I suppose that pulling the strings might return an unstable neck to the exact position when I first tuned the guitar, but that seems like that explanation might be far-fetched. More likely the strings just aren't sliding smoothly enough - or am I misjudging this?
I often play a Yamaha Pacifica 012, their cheapest model. Mine has replacement tuners. I have the floating bridge screwed down tight. It stays perfectly in tune for days at a time. As an aside, this Yamaha stayed in tune even when the bridge was floating. I bought a Fender American Std Stratocaster that was untuneable until I screwed the bridge down as far as possible. Claws all the way in and 5 springs. Why can Yamaha do it on a cheapie and Fender can't do it on a guitar retailing for about 5x the price?
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Most of the time when people complain about strings slipping it's because . . . their strings are slipping.
Originally Posted by IanD
Try to get at least three wraps around every tuner, and more on the top strings.
Stretch strings lots and carefully when tuning.
I hope it helps!
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This thread was brought to my attention. It sounds like some troubleshooting is in order. I'm happy to help in any way I can but contacting me via email would be the best way to proceed.
Bill Comins
biill@cominsguitars.com
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My theory, such as it is, is that string stiffness is involved in tuning problems. When strings are tuned lower, or when the strings expand from temperature changes, the stiffness keeps them from unwinding completely, even if the nut and saddle slots are perfect. Pulling on the strings straightens them from the wrap and tightens the wrap. Of course friction at the nut and saddle are involved, but that may not be the only factor involved. I notice the issue more with the thicker strings, especially the b. As in everything involving an archtop, I think multiple things affect this, and there is probably not one true solution. For the specific guitar in question, I have no knowledge nor opinion.
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This is appreciated. I had occasion to contact Bill about something before. He could not have been nicer or more generous. Originally Posted by wbc
And, I want to make clear, the problem is minor. I still love the guitar.
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Thank you all so much for your responses, they were all very much appreciated.
Most suggestions I have tried at one time or another, - I always stretch the strings, I tune up, never down, and temperature/humidity is kept reasonably level, (although more so for a Martin guitar that humidity affects significantly). Except for the pickups and electronics, no parts (tuners, bridge or nut) have been replaced. As Jack correctly mentioned, I don’t think any of these are the problem.
Perhaps Sam Sherry may be closest to help solving the problem. Like most of you, I have changed probably thousands of string sets over the years, but if I’m honest, I am a little sloppy on that front (usually done in a hurry). I must pay more attention in future.
I did try phoning Bill a year or more ago, but with the approximately 20 hour time difference, phoning is a bit problematic. I will email Bill (which is probably what I should of done in the first place) and I note Bill has now chimed in on the thread offering assistance – thank you Bill for your interest and offer.
Lastly I will echo Roger in that I love the guitar, the setup from Bill was faultless, in fact I think it is the best value semi in the market with a quality exceeding guitars twice (or more) the price.
Ian
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There is another poster named Roger with a similar screenname. My name is Rick. Originally Posted by IanD
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My apologies for the name confusion Rick
Ian
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Bill’s guitars are flat out awesome. Those Wilkinson tuners have a ratio that really is designed for very fine tuning. They’re also very smooth. Perhaps that makes them more susceptible to slight micro-drifting.
Wondering how you are wrapping and stretching…. There are a lot of possibilities.
For sure Bill will give it some attention.
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Thanks. I was trying to be fair to Roger <g>. Originally Posted by IanD
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Glad to see that Bill chimed in on this. He was very helpful to me when I bought my GCS-1. I love that guitar and I've never had any issues with it staying in tune. It's been very stable. I'm sure that he'll get it squared away for you.
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Resurrecting this 2 week-old post to provide an update on the tuning issues I experienced with my Comins GCS1-ES.
Firstly I would like to say Bill Comins is a real gentleman with a level of knowledge of his craft and service that is absolutely outstanding, particularly so given that my guitar was purchased quite a few years ago and is certainly not one of his upper level models.
After I emailed Bill he came back almost immediately asking a few questions and requesting photos of parts of the guitar (bridge, nut, tuners, neck joints) from various angles. After receiving my response he again came back extremely quickly with very detailed comments based on my responses and photos. I will work my way through all of Bill’s suggested advice over the next few weeks but my initial suspicions are the resolution will be via one of, or a combination of, the issues Bill mentioned in relation to strings, and possibly the bridge.
I know from the responses to my post, most GCS1 owners do not appear to have any problems at all with their guitars, with the possible exception of Rick (rpjazzguitar) and myself. So, for anyone’s interest, and with Bill’s kind permission, I will provide his extensive response to me as per below. At Bill’s request I have replaced the string brand names with #1 and #2. Bill understandably did not think it appropriate for him to comment on brands in a public forum, but is quite happy for me to provide the information to Rick on a personal basis. So Rick, if you want further details just shoot me a PM.
From Bill;
“So again, without the guitar here I can't diagnose anything for certain but based on your words and photos here are the things I'm thinking about:
Neck and body/neck joint: If there were any kind of structural issue with the neck I'm sure we'd see some checking/cracking of the finish. From what I can tell all that seems intact and problems with faulty neck joints is not something I've yet encountered with these guitars. I saw some comments on the thread regarding neck stability and my guess is they are talking about perhaps what can happen with say an SG neck, which is often thinner with a very high neck/body joint. I've played SGs where the tuning could be affected by the player's grip and even gravity. Again, not something that comes up with these necks. The necks on the GCS-1s certainly might require seasonal adjustments but they tend to be quite stable.
Tuners: You've already checked the screw tightness and the photo of the back of headstocks shows that the worm gears appear intact as they are not protruding toward the centerline of the guitar. They are likely fine. If you prefer that they feel tighter you can make this adjustment by tightening the button screws to your preference. The strings look adequately wound, starting from the top down and with at least three times around the post. I see you may be using a knotting system which probably isn't necessary. I like to wind the first time around the post above the string end that protrudes and then continue the wrap below the string end. This offers a little bit of a pinch and doesn't create difficulty when removing the old strings. I find this to be enough.
Nut: I'll take your word that you are not hearing any clicking when tuning which would indicate the strings are pinched or somehow sticking. Some of the slots could be gone over again with a (very sharp) pencil to help facilitate tuning/string bends, etc. I'll assume the last time the nut was cut was in my shop in which case I'll assume they are cut in a way to ensure the intonation point is the end of the fingerboard.
Bridge: The bridge slots look OK and again, as you are not hearing clicking or pinching I'll assume they are OK. I see the posts have a slight amount of forward lean. This can happen with tune-o-matics. Know that the GCS -1 posts thread into a metal bushing as opposed to threading directly into the wood. There is a little play here. As you tune the strings up, over time a little forward lean can develop, like an archtop bridge. It's something to be mindful of and it is easily corrected by simply adjusting the bridge to be more perpendicular to the top, using your fingers while the guitar is under tension. I would do this before making adjustments to the intonation. I also see the posts are adjusted low into the bridge holes. I would use the supplied small hex key to raise the screws approximately flush with the top of the bridge. You'll need to hold the adjustment wheel in place or the action will raise. This could possibly help the bridge stay in a stable position.
Bridge saddle intonation: The staggering of the intonation looks pretty close to what is typical for a plain third although the A string looks a little forward. This may however end up being correct. If you are adjusting your own intonation I'll say that it is a good idea to not only check it at the twelfth fret but also farther up. I also tend to check it at the 17th and 19th frets, for example, and sometimes look for a compromise. Adjusting intonation can be somewhat of an art and it's a good idea to check it while being mindful of how you tend to play. Adjust the guitar in playing position, not flat on a bench. Do you finger the notes next to the fret or in between the frets? Light touch vs. heavy touch? All of these will affect how the tuner reads. See how the open strings sound against the same fretted note above the twelfth fret. Try playing some "open chords" that are fingered an octave higher. I can get these guitars to play in tune with themselves very well but tuning will seem never ending on a guitar that intonates differently across the strings. Additionally, I see you are using a plain third and again, the bridge saddle stagger looks in the ballpark. If, however, you end up installing a wound third the G string saddle will need to come forward toward the nut, usually beyond the B string. The action on GCS guitars is carefully calibrated at the nut and bridge. For this reason there are some reliable patterns in the staggering. And when the intonation is set make sure the adjusting screws are flush up against the metal bridge and not backed away. There can be a little play here, too. Finally, I like to put the tiniest dab of clear nail polish where the saddles sit on the bridge, to ensure there's no oscillation. Nail polish gives way easily when adjustments are needed. The GCS guitars are pretty decent in this department but I'm of the belief that a dab of nail polish can make every metal bridge sound a little better.
Strings: There is at least a chance your tuning problem may lie here. I generally have pretty good experiences with ‘string brand #1’ in terms of intonation, at least when they are new. Like any string, when they degrade and get dirty all bets are off. Switching between gauges or brands, will require that you recheck the intonation. In the case of ‘string brand #2’ while I love the sound of them and they are a quality string, over time I have found a notable number of strings that wouldn't intonate correctly. After swapping out the string with another of the same type the problem would be resolved. So I'll suggest you be certain to check the intonation when you are installing ‘string brand #2’. I don't ever like to sound like I'm passing the buck but this is something I believe you should consider.
I hope this helps. Let me know how it goes.”
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This is much appreciated!
I'll PM too.
thanks
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I reviewed Bill's suggestions.
I found that the screws in the tuner buttons could be tightened.
When I pressed on the bridge with my fingers, there was a loud popping sound. Something moved. But, thereafter the bridge and saddles seemed solid. I don't detect any movement.
I noticed that my bridge post hex screws are not flush with the top of the bridge, so I'm going to adjust that.
One error that I need to correct is that my strings are not D'Addario. Rather, they're Fender 9's. I toss the 9, use the 11 as an E string and I buy 13s separately. I think the 13s may be D'Addario. Next time, I'm going to try a different brand.
For the nail polish -- is Bill suggesting loosening the saddles and trying to get a dot of nail polish under them? Or simply putting dots of it where the saddle touches the bridge? That would be front and back on each side? 4 dots of polish per saddle? I'm not clear on the nail polish instruction.
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