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  1. #1

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    seller confirms that there is no block underneath bridge and tailpiece. Just screwed directly into the plywood.


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  3. #2

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    The master luthiers of the world are always busy.

  4. #3

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    What could possibly go wrong with that?

  5. #4

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    Maybe he doesn’t know or understand what directly screwed to the top means?!? For his and the guitar’s sake I hope so…… holy guacamole!

    (Or maybe we are crazy and plywood is much stronger than we always assumed….. LOL)

  6. #5

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    What would be the benefit of this mod? Seems to be risky forcewise, I am wondering how brave was owner with the strings, I mean would he dare put 11s on? (or 12s, 13s)

    Soundwise it changes an important attribute, how the bridge transmits the string resonance to the top. Now instead of the full area of the bridge (or two rectangle area in case of such kind of bridge) it has two holes for the transmission. My guess it goes to trebly, with the risk of plinkiness on E and B, and also with the risk to lose the the best thing of an 175, the openness and the body of the sound.

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabor
    What would be the benefit of this mod? Seems to be risky forcewise, I am wondering how brave was owner with the strings, I mean would he dare put 11s on? (or 12s, 13s)

    Soundwise it changes an important attribute, how the bridge transmits the string resonance to the top. Now instead of the full area of the bridge (or two rectangle area in case of such kind of bridge) it has two holes for the transmission. My guess it goes to trebly, with the risk of plinkiness on E and B, and also with the risk to lose the the best thing of an 175, the openness and the body of the sound.
    I am guessing that the mod did not get the guitar to sound like he wanted and that is why it is for sale on Reverb.

    He probably would have been better off with a 335 in the first place. At the right price, that guitar may be a good buy for someone. That should not be too tough to get back to stock (assuming that the geometry of the guitar has not been all screwed up.)

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Little Jay
    Maybe he doesn’t know or understand what directly screwed to the top means?!? For his and the guitar’s sake I hope so…… holy guacamole!

    (Or maybe we are crazy and plywood is much stronger than we always assumed….. LOL)
    I asked him specifically if there was a block of wood underneath the bridge and/or tailpiece supporting the screws and he said no.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Stringswinger
    I am guessing that the mod did not get the guitar to sound like he wanted and that is why it is for sale on Reverb.

    He probably would have been better off with a 335 in the first place. At the right price, that guitar may be a good buy for someone. That should not be too tough to get back to stock (assuming that the geometry of the guitar has not been all screwed up.)
    With shipping, it's about $2800 and if you throw in duty, maybe another $200. I would think it'd be worth just spending $500-$1000 more and getting one without the extra holes in it?

    Gibson ES-175 Figured Natural w/Tune-O-Machic MOD 2003 | Miki | Reverb

  10. #9

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    This guitar is at Miki Gakki, a big Japanese retail guitar shop. I’m just guessing that the mod was done in a somewhat reasonable way, but you may not be able to get an accurate answer about it from a salesperson.

  11. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatRhythmMan
    This guitar is at Miki Gakki, a big Japanese retail guitar shop. I’m just guessing that the mod was done in a somewhat reasonable way, but you may not be able to get an accurate answer about it from a salesperson.
    there's not a reasonable way to mount a stop tail and screwed in tuneamatic bridge on a 175 without a backing block.

  12. #11

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    ...and also there is no reasonable "reason"...

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker
    there's not a reasonable way to mount a stop tail and screwed in tuneamatic bridge on a 175 without a backing block.
    I’m guessing that either no one actually looked inside or doesn’t know what to look for. There are very few people working in shops who know anything about archtop guitars. The odds of bridge posts being stable enough to work just in a laminated top seems very unlikely. I would be willing to bet that there is indeed something else under that bridge.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker
    With shipping, it's about $2800 and if you throw in duty, maybe another $200. I would think it'd be worth just spending $500-$1000 more and getting one without the extra holes in it?

    Gibson ES-175 Figured Natural w/Tune-O-Machic MOD 2003 | Miki | Reverb
    Agreed. I would not want to pay more than 1800 for it. I also think it has to have something under the top to hold those posts.

  15. #14

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    I'd be more worried about the tailpiece pulling than the bridge. In any case I think it *looks* cool.

  16. #15

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    I’ve seen “175 kits” with stop tail and bridge like that, and I can’t help but wonder about the possibility that this wasn’t originally made by Gibson. It’d take a lot of work to fake a blonde 175 even close to Gibson finish standards. It simply wouldn’t make sense to me to put that much effort into one that’s so far from factory spec. I don’t see how the holes in the plywood kit top could possibly be filled so well that they were undetectable without opaque finish over them, which would explain leaving the bridge and tailpiece rather than fitting “proper” ones. But counterfeiters are probably like used car salesmen. They know there’s always a buyer for a shiny one with a price tag low enough to interest but not so low it’s too good to be true. As they say on the car lot, “there’s an ass for every seat”.

    Unless the neck was checked for fingerprints right before the pics were taken, those smudges are just plain weird. There’s no picture of the label. And the end pin area is not shown, so we can’t see the hole repair and any other evidence left by removal of the original tailpiece. On a 20 year old blonde, I’d expect to see some sign that it once had a proper tailpiece. And I don’t see Made in USA on the headstock under the serial #.

    Just throwin’ it out there. Call me paranoid, but I wouldn’t buy it at any price.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker
    I asked him specifically if there was a block of wood underneath the bridge and/or tailpiece supporting the screws and he said no.
    Madness... sheer madness.
    Or possibly just plain stupidity.

  18. #17

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    I would accept that there is no block under the bridge. There is no way I know of to get one inside there without removing the back. You can't get much of a block through the f holes, and positioning and clamping it in place for gluing is a nightmare at best. Plywood is usually very strong, and plywood pressed into guitar plates is usually much stronger that plywood from the home improvement store. The force is lateral, and screws along with proper adhesive would probably hold things in place for some time, with thin strings. The finish would need to be removed underneath the hardware, though, because it's a very weak link. Gluing over nitro finish is a losing proposition. But like others, I wouldn't touch it for more than a couple of hundred dollars. If you can get it cheap enough, you could probably part it out and get your money back. But I don't think the seller would accept a fair price, so I'll just ignore it.

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell
    I would accept that there is no block under the bridge. There is no way I know of to get one inside there without removing the back. You can't get much of a block through the f holes, and positioning and clamping it in place for gluing is a nightmare at best. Plywood is usually very strong, and plywood pressed into guitar plates is usually much stronger that plywood from the home improvement store. The force is lateral, and screws along with proper adhesive would probably hold things in place for some time, with thin strings. The finish would need to be removed underneath the hardware, though, because it's a very weak link. Gluing over nitro finish is a losing proposition. But like others, I wouldn't touch it for more than a couple of hundred dollars. If you can get it cheap enough, you could probably part it out and get your money back. But I don't think the seller would accept a fair price, so I'll just ignore it.
    You might be able to get a block through the bridge pickup hole. And perhaps there are nuts and washers underneath? There has to be something holding those bolts in.

    If I was in Japan and wanted a 175, I might check it out in person, but I sure would not take my chances on getting it shipped to the USA or EU.

  20. #19

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    That's bizarre.. Mikki is a good shop, I wouldn't expect to find such bonkers lutherie from them. I played in their booth at Osaka Sound Messe demoing their Marchione guitars, but all their vintage stuff was well set up and maintained. Not sure if travel will open up safely any time soon, but if I'm ever in their shop again I'll see if I can check it out....

    PK

  21. #20

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    Yes, I assume there are nuts and washers underneath. That increases the strength by a lot, which is why I can accept the lack of a block. Simple wood screws wouldn't hold nearly as well.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell
    I would accept that there is no block under the bridge. There is no way I know of to get one inside there without removing the back. You can't get much of a block through the f holes, and positioning and clamping it in place for gluing is a nightmare at best. Plywood is usually very strong, and plywood pressed into guitar plates is usually much stronger that plywood from the home improvement store. The force is lateral, and screws along with proper adhesive would probably hold things in place for some time, with thin strings. The finish would need to be removed underneath the hardware, though, because it's a very weak link. Gluing over nitro finish is a losing proposition. But like others, I wouldn't touch it for more than a couple of hundred dollars. If you can get it cheap enough, you could probably part it out and get your money back. But I don't think the seller would accept a fair price, so I'll just ignore it.
    It would be very difficult (if not impossible) to drill holes in a plywood guitar top that’s already in place without damaging the integrity of the laminate. Without a backing block flush against the inside surface, the underside (including edges of the laminations) would splinter badly and start to separate. I know of no tape that’s strong and adherent enough to prevent chipping and lifting of either side. If used, self-tapping screws would lift the surface layer and cause incipient separation of all the layers (which would likely propagate outward from the holes, especially with vibration).

  23. #22

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    My 2017 Memphis Natural has the pinned bridge from the factory. It is also missing the added brace for the bridge to screw into. Haven’t had any issues. Keep thinking I should just find shorter screws and turn it back into a standard floating bridge.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by TedBPhx
    My 2017 Memphis Natural has the pinned bridge from the factory. It is also missing the added brace for the bridge to screw into. Haven’t had any issues. Keep thinking I should just find shorter screws and turn it back into a standard floating bridge.
    I’ve only seen that on a factory 175 with a Bigsby. What kind of a tailpiece does yours have?

  25. #24

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    You can back the posts out enough to get them back inside the base. Depending on the neck angle, they might protrude above the saddle a little. My Epi ES175 came with the bridge pinned, but I screwed the posts back to just barely inside the base, and they stayed inside the saddle. Now it floats, and the holes in the top are covered by the base.

    It's possible to drill clean holes with the proper bits, and with wide washers that fit correctly under nuts a block may not be absolutely necessary. But it's still a terrible idea, and I wouldn't trust the mod to hold up long-term.

  26. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell
    I would accept that there is no block under the bridge. There is no way I know of to get one inside there without removing the back. You can't get much of a block through the f holes, and positioning and clamping it in place for gluing is a nightmare at best. Plywood is usually very strong, and plywood pressed into guitar plates is usually much stronger that plywood from the home improvement store. The force is lateral, and screws along with proper adhesive would probably hold things in place for some time, with thin strings. The finish would need to be removed underneath the hardware, though, because it's a very weak link. Gluing over nitro finish is a losing proposition. But like others, I wouldn't touch it for more than a couple of hundred dollars. If you can get it cheap enough, you could probably part it out and get your money back. But I don't think the seller would accept a fair price, so I'll just ignore it.
    you could see it by pulling one of the pickups or with a dental mirror or with a flexible usb camera. The guy's in Japan so it's not worth taking a chance on having to return it.