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  1. #1

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    I'm experiencing some hearing loss, and it looks like my small, low watt amps might not be very useful to me for much longer. So I trudged down to the local GC to check out a couple of Fender's Tone Masters. The first one I could find was a Super Reverb. I plugged my new axe in (I ended up with the Seventy Seven Jazz Hawk which was available here not too long ago), and gave the Super a spin.

    The good: after some knob twiddling, I got some really nice tones out of it. I think the amp is a bit bright for the majority of things I'd play, but it wouldn't take a gun to my head to make the purchase. The bad: I couldn't hear anything until I fearfully rolled the volume up to 5. For comparison, I have a ZT Lunchbox Junior, and the volume seems to scale pretty linearly. The Super seemed to be off at 4 and (small) room filling at 5. I didn't think much of it, since I really was hoping for some magic from the Twin.

    The Twin was showing in their online inventory, and a kind employee managed to track it down for me and unpackage it. We got everything plugged in, and between the two of us couldn't manage to get it to speak. Rolled through everything, including all of the switches and things on the back. The employee looked for damage and couldn't find any. DOA.

    YMMV.

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  3. #2

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    Greetings from a fellow guitarist with hearing loss

    It's possible the attenuator switch on the Super was turned down. I would expect that to be a very loud amp.
    I have the TM Deluxe - probably done close to 100 gigs with it in the time I've had it - no issues at all.

  4. #3
    Thanks for the reply and info, and sorry for your loss.

    Maybe I’ll go back and play around with the Super a bit more. No issues at all is what I would have expected, and, truth be told, I’d like a blonde Twin.

  5. #4

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    Sorry about the hearing loss, and congrats on the Jazz Hawk. Is that the thin bodied one? I like the specs on those thinner Hawk models.

    As previously posted, I suspect the attenuator built into the TM Super may have been set pretty low due to the amp being in a store. At the full 45 Watts into those 4 speakers I expect you would have heard it long before you got to 5 on the volume dial

    If you go back, just check around the back side of the amp, the "Output Power" knob positions should be : 45W, 22W, 12W, 5W, 1W, and 0.5W. I suspect the knob may have been on 1W or possibly 5W when you checked it out, so you wouldn't have gotten the full impact of what the amp can actually do. Not sure what happened with that Twin though, I haven't heard that DOA before.

  6. #5

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    I play the tonemaster twin often when I get a chance at work. I also sometime forget to reset the “attenuation” knob back to normal. The amps sounds good with the 2nd to last attenuation and up pretty high in volume.

  7. #6

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    After too many years of playing loud music, sitting too close to speakers, concerts, etc., I have tinnitus as well as some hearing loss. I never liked using hearing protection. It dulled the music too much. I like it loud.

    Now I find myself sitting closer to amps at home or turning the volume up until my 'domestic attenuation system' (wifey) yells at me to turn down.

    That said, I need to consider getting a hearing aid. My older brother is a gun collector and goes to the range often. His hearing is so bad he invested in a high tech blu tooth hearing aid and loves them. He loves guns. I love guitars and loud amps.

    Maybe my next purchase won't be another amp. It will likely be a hearing aid.

  8. #7

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    I can't even blame loud gigs etc. for my hearing loss. I was on holiday a few years back, and caught a cold. A week or two later, I woke up in the morning with shocking vertigo and completely deaf on one side with raging tinnitus. It's called sudden-sesorineural hearing loss. The cause is still not really known but the specialist suggested it could be the cold virus actually attacked the cochlear. Some hearing came back but not much.

    On the bright side - my other ear works fine!

    It's amazing how the brain learns to compensate - it's nowhere as debilitating as people would imagine. Trying to maintain conversations in crowded rooms can be a pain though.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by jim777
    Sorry about the hearing loss, and congrats on the Jazz Hawk. Is that the thin bodied one? I like the specs on those thinner Hawk models.
    Thanks! It's the MIJ Jazz Hawk Deep (or whatever the nomenclature is). I've only owned one Japanese guitar before, but I've owned several Japanese woodwinds. I've never been disappointed. I'm playing this thing like I stole it.

    Quote Originally Posted by st.bede
    I play the tonemaster twin often when I get a chance at work. I also sometime forget to reset the “attenuation” knob back to normal. The amps sounds good with the 2nd to last attenuation and up pretty high in volume.
    This is also what I'm basically after. I don't know who stuck the idea in my head, probably an interview with George Benson, where he talked about having volume cranked on either the guitar or the amplifier. I like some hair on my tone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gitfiddler
    After too many years of playing loud music, sitting too close to speakers, concerts, etc., I have tinnitus as well as some hearing loss. I never liked using hearing protection. It dulled the music too much. I like it loud.

    Now I find myself sitting closer to amps at home or turning the volume up until my 'domestic attenuation system' (wifey) yells at me to turn down.

    That said, I need to consider getting a hearing aid. My older brother is a gun collector and goes to the range often. His hearing is so bad he invested in a high tech blu tooth hearing aid and loves them. He loves guns. I love guitars and loud amps.

    Maybe my next purchase won't be another amp. It will likely be a hearing aid.
    Wiser words haven't been spoken. I've been playing woodwinds forever, and I'm really loud. My two main axes have been soprano saxophone and flute, and people are almost always surprised by how loud the flute is. I've also worked with some incredibly loud, amplified projects, and I know that I'm suffering as a result. I need suck it up and go see someone.

    Quote Originally Posted by entresz
    I can't even blame loud gigs etc. for my hearing loss. I was on holiday a few years back, and caught a cold. A week or two later, I woke up in the morning with shocking vertigo and completely deaf on one side with raging tinnitus. It's called sudden-sesorineural hearing loss. The cause is still not really known but the specialist suggested it could be the cold virus actually attacked the cochlear. Some hearing came back but not much.

    On the bright side - my other ear works fine!

    It's amazing how the brain learns to compensate - it's nowhere as debilitating as people would imagine. Trying to maintain conversations in crowded rooms can be a pain though.
    YIKES That's terrifying. You're a better person than I. I'm not sure I could make lemonade out of that.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by entresz
    I can't even blame loud gigs etc. for my hearing loss. I was on holiday a few years back, and caught a cold. A week or two later, I woke up in the morning with shocking vertigo and completely deaf on one side with raging tinnitus. It's called sudden-sesorineural hearing loss. The cause is still not really known but the specialist suggested it could be the cold virus actually attacked the cochlear. Some hearing came back but not much.

    On the bright side - my other ear works fine!

    It's amazing how the brain learns to compensate - it's nowhere as debilitating as people would imagine. Trying to maintain conversations in crowded rooms can be a pain though.
    I had this too. Got most, not all, of my hearing back.

    What people should know is that there is evidence that quick treatment improves the odds of preserving your hearing from about 50% to about 80% iirc. That's important.

    Treatment is oral steroids or an injection of steroid into the ear. Yes, a needle through the eardrum. I've had that twice and it's not quite as horrible as it sounds. The hole doesn't heal but the ENT insisted the hole won't affect your hearing. They can use the same hole for subsequent injections, if you need them. I don't know enough about how to pick the best option to comment.

    The specialty is Ear Nose and Throat or Head and Neck Surgery, I think.

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    I had this too. Got most, not all, of my hearing back.

    What people should know is that there is evidence that quick treatment improves the odds of preserving your hearing from about 50% to about 80% iirc. That's important.

    Treatment is oral steroids or an injection of steroid into the ear. Yes, a needle through the eardrum. I've had that twice and it's not quite as horrible as it sounds. The hole doesn't heal but the ENT insisted the hole won't affect your hearing. They can use the same hole for subsequent injections, if you need them. I don't know enough about how to pick the best option to comment.

    The specialty is Ear Nose and Throat or Head and Neck Surgery, I think.
    I had high dose prednisolone after - I think that's actually why I regained some hearing back. My first hearing test, shortly after it happened, I was "profoundly" deaf. Now I can hear a fair bit through it - but I've lost lots of high frequency hearing. Dick Dale sounds like Jim Hall through my bad ear!

  12. #11

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    I have long noted that jazz guitarists tend to have a brighter tone as they get older. This was particularly noticeable with Jim Hall. I suspect it's actually due to high-end hearing loss and they think they sound the same...

  13. #12

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    Speaking as someone who has been a professional musician live and in studios for 45+ years, I started to experience tinnitus before I was 30. Living in NYC and using headphones didn't help.

    I was more working in the studios as a composer/producer after that but still: loud studio monitors and instruments. I started to be more careful, using earplugs when I was playing in my roots rock band and on jazz gigs, but now have had very good hearing aids that link to my phone via Bluetooth, for about 7 years now.

    I would strongly urge you to look into that, because if you don't you will lose hearing in certain ranges permanently, the nerves atrophy if you don't use them, according to my by my hearing specialist, who was a full doctor of audiology. So those frequencies need to be boosted to keep them active.

    Beyond the improvement you will experience in your social life (no more pretending you heard something when you didn't, your significant other actually has things worthwhile to say, who knew?), the improvement in your musical life can be profound- I just turn my hearing aids down a bit and re-EQ them on my phone when I'm playing guitar, and I can again hear the full range.

    Regarding the Tonemaster, maybe is was set low but in general, no way you should have had any difficulty hearing that thing clearly.

  14. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by bluejaybill
    Speaking as someone who has been a professional musician live and in studios for 45+ years, I started to experience tinnitus before I was 30. Living in NYC and using headphones didn't help.

    I was more working in the studios as a composer/producer after that but still: loud studio monitors and instruments. I started to be more careful, using earplugs when I was playing in my roots rock band and on jazz gigs, but now have had very good hearing aids that link to my phone via Bluetooth, for about 7 years now.

    I would strongly urge you to look into that, because if you don't you will lose hearing in certain ranges permanently, the nerves atrophy if you don't use them, according to my by my hearing specialist, who was a full doctor of audiology. So those frequencies need to be boosted to keep them active.

    Beyond the improvement you will experience in your social life (no more pretending you heard something when you didn't, your significant other actually has things worthwhile to say, who knew?), the improvement in your musical life can be profound- I just turn my hearing aids down a bit and re-EQ them on my phone when I'm playing guitar, and I can again hear the full range.

    Regarding the Tonemaster, maybe is was set low but in general, no way you should have had any difficulty hearing that thing clearly.
    Appreciated and taken to heart. We like to joke at home that our favorite word is "huh," but it's getting to the point of not being funny.

    My SO didn't realize the physicality involved in playing. Up until we started living together, I was still regularly practicing around 40 hours a week. She was pretty surprised to find out about hearing loss, arthritis (if I skip a day I pay for it), and, in my case because of the saxophone, dental problems. The hearing thing is the spookiest, and it's becoming a common topic for discussion. My woodwind tech is about to retire, and told me some really sad stories just a few weeks ago.

    Regarding the Tone Master, agreed. Hopefully I can head back to the store this weekend and see how much of it was me versus how much of it was the floor unit.

  15. #14

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    Hearing deteriorates with age, even with no particular exposure to noise. At 75, I'm the youngest in our band and the only one without a hearing aid. Haven't heard grasshoppers for decades. My hearing no doubt took a hit from some rock playing in the 1960s, and military service in the artillery, but certainly suffered more from a decade of competitive control line aeromodeling, with screaming combustion engines turning 15,000-30,000 rpm right next to my left (now worse) ear. The observation that older guitarists prefer a brighter tone is interesting, and applies to me as well. In part, it's for the half-deaf bandmates who can't hear darker comping except on excessive volume.

  16. #15

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    I know nothing about hearing loss (so far) but do love my TM Twin. What a great amp! I think once you have it set up properly, you will love it too. Best wishes.

  17. #16

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    To bring this back to quality control: where's that amp made?

    I have pretty bad experience with the QC in (and support for) Fender's China-made products. Granted, those are branded Gretsch and not Fender, but it hasn't exactly increased my trust in the company.

  18. #17

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    Sorry about the amp, but this discussion brought up an important discovery I’ve been trying to share.

    Last spring, I had a bout of severe, but temporary hearing loss after beginning a course of amoxicillin for a tooth that needed a root canal. Within 36 hours or so, I had lost probably 50 to 60% (estimated) of my hearing, accompanied by tinnitus. Freaked out, I did a quick search of the medical literature and found that amoxicillin, a common and heavily prescribed broad spectrum antibiotic, is now classified as one of a few ototoxic (damaging to hearing) drugs, with a strong recommendation that it be limited to life threatening infection only, as a result of the potential for side effects.

    I don’t recall the actual incidence of adverse reaction, but when it occurs, the chances of a permanent hearing loss were something like 40% (there was a more exact number for that, but it was fairly high).

    My hearing returned to normal about 6 days after immediately discontinuing use, but neither the dentist, pharmacist, hygienist or 3 or 4 physician friends had heard of the risk. Given it’s so heavily prescribed, it caused me to wonder about how much supposed age related or infection related hearing loss is written off as unavoidable when there may be a link to use of amoxicillin. Caveat emptor. Discuss with your prescribing physician or pharmacist the potential for risk if you are prescribed this antibiotic, ask about alternatives, avoid taking it concurrently with NSAIDs, which further increase the risk of permanent loss and protect those ears.

    i cannot imagine a world without sound. It genuinely scared me at the time.

  19. #18

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    I think (hope!) this would not have occurred here in Europe, at least that's the impression I got when I tried to find a sufficient number of vestibular-loss patients for participation in a scientific experiment I was setting up. Ototoxic drugs can cause hearing loss, but they are even more likely to cause vestibular loss (largely because there are simply fewer vestibular sensory cells than auditory ones).

  20. #19

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    Amoxicillin is not particularly bad for hearing. I suppose any antibiotic or any drug could have an idiosyncratic side effect. I prescribe amoxicillin (usually in the form of Augmentin) probably 6-10 times a week. One of the mainstays of antibacterial outpatient treatment, really.

    Some drugs do cause hearing problems: erythromycin particularly (not used much anymore), and certain IV drugs like gentamycin, amikacin, streptomycin, vancomycin. The latter we only use in life-threatening infections.

    Sorry to hear about your problem, but glad it got better. I'm not enough of an expert to know if steroids (prednisone, prednisolone, etc.) improve acute hearing loss or tinnitus, which in some cases might be autoimmune. Don't forget Voltaire's famous dictum that “The art of medicine consists in amusing the patient, while nature cures the disease”.

    I have pretty bad tinnitus and high-level hearing loss. I am not quite to the point of "needing" hearing aids. I have a Bose headphone called Hearphones that helps a great deal with watching TV and things like that, and also is noise-cancelling for working in the shop and use power tools outdoors.

    Hearing aids are now being made by audio companies like Bose, though they can't be marketed as medical "hearing aids" per se. The cost however is 1/4-1/6 the cost of conventional hearing aids, which generally cost about $2500-3000 per ear and often are not covered by insurance. One of the benefits of the recent health budget bill was to add hearing aid coverage to Medicare. Not sure when this will be available.

    Back to the Tonemaster, I have been jonesing for a Deluxe, but so far have resisted the urge and am satisfied with my 4 current amps both at home and for (the currently all-too-rare) gigging.

  21. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
    I know nothing about hearing loss (so far) but do love my TM Twin. What a great amp! I think once you have it set up properly, you will love it too. Best wishes.
    Appreciated! Love what I've heard of your playing, by the way.

    Quote Originally Posted by RJVB
    To bring this back to quality control: where's that amp made?

    I have pretty bad experience with the QC in (and support for) Fender's China-made products. Granted, those are branded Gretsch and not Fender, but it hasn't exactly increased my trust in the company.
    Not sure, and might not be sure for the reasons listed below. Regarding Fender's QC in China, I have some direct but limited experience. I sold two Mexican Jazzmasters and one American Jazzmaster and kept a Squier J Mascis from China. One of the Mexicans smoked the whole lot, but I sold it to a friend who'd never really bonded with an instrument before. The Chinese Jazzmaster is a tank and has an amazing neck. Maybe I lucked out, but I found a great deal online and rolled the dice and won.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
    Back to the Tonemaster, I have been jonesing for a Deluxe, but so far have resisted the urge and am satisfied with my 4 current amps both at home and for (the currently all-too-rare) gigging.
    I packed up my axe and went questing this afternoon. I stopped at a local shop I've done business with for a long time to see what they had in stock. One of my friends, who's also about my age, suggested I try something with a bigger cabinet. After tinkering with several amps, I ended up bringing home an old Danelectro Cadet Model 123. Still low wattage, super clean but with a whiff of grit, and I fell in love with the voice. Plus they gave me a great deal on it. I got it home and banged out a bunch of Christmas carols (the guys at the shop were arguing about Christmas and mandatory gift-giving, so the music seemed fitting). While the Danelectro can't address any of the health issues raised in this very thoughtful thread, its voice has a comfortable bigness which filled the room with holiday cheer, yet it didn't overpower the news broadcast being watched by my SO down the hall in another room.

    I'll provide an update if curiosity gets the better of me and I revisit the Tone Masters.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
    Amoxicillin is not particularly bad for hearing. I suppose any antibiotic or any drug could have an idiosyncratic side effect. I prescribe amoxicillin (usually in the form of Augmentin) probably 6-10 times a week. One of the mainstays of antibacterial outpatient treatment, really.

    Some drugs do cause hearing problems: erythromycin particularly (not used much anymore), and certain IV drugs like gentamycin, amikacin, streptomycin, vancomycin. The latter we only use in life-threatening infections.

    Sorry to hear about your problem, but glad it got better. I'm not enough of an expert to know if steroids (prednisone, prednisolone, etc.) improve acute hearing loss or tinnitus, which in some cases might be autoimmune. Don't forget Voltaire's famous dictum that “The art of medicine consists in amusing the patient, while nature cures the disease”.

    I have pretty bad tinnitus and high-level hearing loss. I am not quite to the point of "needing" hearing aids. I have a Bose headphone called Hearphones that helps a great deal with watching TV and things like that, and also is noise-cancelling for working in the shop and use power tools outdoors.

    Hearing aids are now being made by audio companies like Bose, though they can't be marketed as medical "hearing aids" per se. The cost however is 1/4-1/6 the cost of conventional hearing aids, which generally cost about $2500-3000 per ear and often are not covered by insurance. One of the benefits of the recent health budget bill was to add hearing aid coverage to Medicare. Not sure when this will be available.

    Back to the Tonemaster, I have been jonesing for a Deluxe, but so far have resisted the urge and am satisfied with my 4 current amps both at home and for (the currently all-too-rare) gigging.
    Thanks for the additional info. It seems as though the literature is not exactly replete with reporting on this side effect, and it may be that it was the combined effect of the ibuprofen with augmentin that was to blame, as I had taken augmentin years before with nothing more than some stomach upset. Still, lots of folks may find themselves combining NSAIDS and amoxicillin and caution is certainly warranted. The hearing loss does seem to reverse on discontinuing the meds more often than becoming permanent. Still, it was a standard prescribing practice in my dentist’s office for an infected molar. I would have been mortified to have lost my hearing in pursuit of a little comfort, waiting for my root canal :/

  23. #22

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    I must have missed something in this discussion?? Last I knew there was only the Tone Master Twin Reverb and Tone Master Deluxe Reverb. Unless it has been very recently introduced there is no Tone Master "Super"...yet. Although there have been countless calls for a Tone Master Super Reverb, to my knowledge, there are currently none being produced.

    Also, FWIW, I've had a Fender Tone Master Deluxe Reverb for about a year and a half and have never had any issues with it. It sounds superb, clean or dirty. It takes pedals extremely well. IMHO, it's an outstanding amp. My back also loves the Fender Tone Master Deluxe Reverb. And the tone of the Tone Master series amps is extremely close to the vintage versions. It's so close that you'll not likely be able to tell the difference in a live performance. I just like the tone of the Tone Master series amps whether they sound exactly like their vintage counterparts or not.

    Oops!!! I just read about the new Tone Master Super Reverb!!! It's about time! Sounds like a killer amp. If it's as good an amp as the first two it should be a big seller.

  24. #23

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    Hearing is a major concern for me. At Age 58, and going on 43 years of guitar playing my hearing has deteriorated a little bit. For my job as a Quality Engineer, even though I do not spend most of my time exposed to loud machinery, I am still required to have annual hearing tests, which have shown that while mine is still in the normal range, it could stand to be better.

    I think what hearing loss I have, is from a number of factors:

    1. Exposure to loud workshop machinery as a child - my older sister was too timid to be near my dad's woodworking equipment, and my brother was too young and a bit of a klutz. So guess who got tapped who help dad (who never used hearing protection [not many people did in the 70s]), with holding boards, panels, etc. when he was working on his latest woodworking project?

    2. Cranking the stereo, when I was younger (and worse yet, oftentimes doing it while wearing headphones).

    3. For most of the 90s as a Ham Radio contester (yes, I have a Ham Radio license [since I was a teenager]), to "hear weak radio signals better" in the static, I wore high end, full ear coverage stereo headphones while operating my radios during Ham Radio contests, for hours at a time, often with the volume pretty loud. I quit doing that years ago, when I realized how hard I was slamming my ears volume-wise (this weekend, I'm participating in the ARRL 160m [ham radio band] Contest - no headphones for me, just the internal radio speaker at medium low volume).

    4. Playing in loud band situations - I always tell people that when I play clean sounding guitar, I play acoustic guitar, or jazz electric guitar, and when I play rock, it's metallic sounding electric guitar. While I prefer my amps to have a master volume or power scaling control (like my Tonemaster Deluxe Reverb), it's difficult at times (and not just in rock bands), to avoid turning up your amp, to hear yourself due to a lack of monitors, or dealing with other band members, who insist upon playing loud. I'll have to contend with that later today, when I play acoustic guitar for Saturday mass at St. Elizabeth Ann Seton - the music director plays the church's oh so expensive Steinway concert piano during mass, and she plays LOUD. It doesn't help that (as I've learned from talking to her), that her hearing is at the very least, shot in her left ear (she's told me she can't hear me very well, if I try to talk to her while we are on the low platform stage [I'm at Stage Left to her]), from decades of piano playing. I keep my Fishman Loudbox Mini Charge amp throttled back, to about 2.5 on the master volume, and on an amp stand to raise it up for me to hear it better, but man, that piano just slams me volume-wise oh so often.

    5. Genetic - my mom, the retired medical clinic lab technician, told me out of the blue, a few years ago, that her side of the family has a hereditary tendency towards hearing loss. My mom's hearing started to degrade about 10 years ago (nowadays, she wears a hearing aid, otherwise she has a hard time occasionally, understanding what you are saying). Her younger brother had the same condition, and his oldest son (my cousin) has it so bad, that by the time he was in his mid 40s, he had to resort to using hearing aids in both ears - just so he could understand what people were saying, at the meetings he attended as a corporate accountant. None of the three people I mentioned, are musicians, nor loud music listeners.

    So with the above considerations in mind - I typically keep things quiet (I'm not a big background noise fan), when I am not playing music. I don't want to wind up like my uncle (Guitar Player Generation #2 - my dad's youngest brother), with a 70% plus hearing loss (in his case, mainly from playing with amps cranked up on 10 in early 1970s rock bands, for long periods of time), and unable to understand anybody, if I'm not looking at them while they're speaking.

    As for Tonemaster amp sound quality - I've read, and also realized from first hand usage, that the lowest power scaling setting (.2 watts), sometimes can sound a little muddy, so I keep mine on the next lowest power scaling setting (.5 watts) or higher, and it sounds fine to me.
    Last edited by EllenGtrGrl; 12-04-2021 at 11:20 PM.

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by yebdox
    Thanks for the additional info. It seems as though the literature is not exactly replete with reporting on this side effect, and it may be that it was the combined effect of the ibuprofen with augmentin that was to blame, as I had taken augmentin years before with nothing more than some stomach upset. Still, lots of folks may find themselves combining NSAIDS and amoxicillin and caution is certainly warranted. The hearing loss does seem to reverse on discontinuing the meds more often than becoming permanent. Still, it was a standard prescribing practice in my dentist’s office for an infected molar. I would have been mortified to have lost my hearing in pursuit of a little comfort, waiting for my root canal :/
    Damn. Last spring I had a sinusitis and a doctor ordered Amoxin antibiotic. I took the course and used ibuprofen to my aches.

    My hearing decreased but I thought it was because the inflammation. Then one night I couldn't sleep because my tinnitus.

    I have had the tinnitus for decades but it hasn't bothered me, I have always had something more nice to think than start listening hiss and beep inside my head. But now it took over. I was so frightened that next day I bought quality bluetooth headphones so I could listen quiet music in the bed without disturbing my wife if the tinnitus would disturb me again. It hasn't, yet.

    If this is a side effect of taking Amoxin and ibuprofen I have to be careful in the future.

  26. #25

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    It's always a good idea to avoid ibuprofen and other NSAIDs if paracetamol has a strong enough effect. They also increase the risk for developing cataracts :-/