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  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Hammertone
    Looks like it has a D'A-style tailpiece. What's the big deal? Since the relaunch of the brand in 2011, thousands and thousands of similar tailpieces have been made.
    Even if you were correct about that patent laws and lawsuits.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52

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    A real stunner!

  4. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by guildx500
    A real stunner!

  5. #54

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    Hammer

    you’re a mean spirited clown and enjoy pissing on other people‘s new gear day threads

    start taking your meds again kid

    BigMike

  6. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
    Even if you were correct about that patent laws and lawsuits.
    Are you suggesting that there may be patents still in force covering the D'A tailpiece that was manufactured and sold 50+ years ago? I can assure no such patent exists

  7. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Will Whateley
    Are you suggesting that there may be patents still in force covering the D'A tailpiece that was manufactured and sold 50+ years ago? I can assure no such patent exists
    The NEW D’Angelico company has put a patent on the tailpiece of their Korean made guitars.

  8. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
    The NEW D’Angelico company has put a patent on the tailpiece of their Korean made guitars.
    While that may be true, someone like Jim Triggs who has used that style of tailpiece on his guitars prior to the patent would be exempted (grandfathered in, so to speak). But the legal costs in defending that exemption may not be worth it. And others should beware. Infringing on a legal patent/copyright/trademark can be expensive.

    My advice: If you want a fine hand carved archtop with a D'Angelico tailpiece, buy a genuine D'Angelico. That is what I did. CAMPELLONE V1K2 model-dangelico-style-b-jpg

  9. #58
    Mr.Triggs has already been informed to cease making D’A style guitars of any kind or he will be sued by the new D’A company. They put patents on the design and tp.
    A single little luthier doesn’t stand a chance against a big corporation.
    Lets not forget the Ibanez lawsuit guitars.
    The deepest pocket wins.

    I liked the Vestax made D’A’s but don’t care for this new company at all.
    These new cheap knockoffs are not worthy of the name.

  10. #59

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    Mr. Triggs sure displays his guitars with DA styling on his webpage: Archtops | triggsguitars

    You are right Vinny, if Triggs had to fight the Arizona Iced Tea fortune in Court, it would be expensive, and probably not worth it.

    I too do not care for the new D'Angelico company. They have not respected the brand properly, IMO.

  11. #60

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    Maybe so, but I'm still pissed off at the International Olympic Committee lawyers for shutting down the Oyster Olympics in Seattle! Defending their brand at the expense of the oyster for christ sake! It was a great event. Proceeds went to protecting Puget Sound, it helped small businesses (shellfish), and the one day event was all you can eat, paired with local wines!

  12. #61

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    The current owners of the D'Angelico company have TRADEMARKS, not patents, on what various guitar bits bits and pieces look like, or how they are visually distinguished. Trademarks are different from patents, and are nation-based. Their trademark application for similar items in Europe was rejected. European guitar makers can use those visual styles on their own instruments. It is not against trademark law to install an existing D'Angelico-style tailpiece on a guitar that is not being represented as a D'Angelico guitar, but it is against trademark law to represent a guitar as being a D'Angelico when it is not.
    -Bozo
    Last edited by Hammertone; 12-12-2021 at 07:16 PM.

  13. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
    Mr.Triggs has already been informed to cease making D’A style guitars of any kind or he will be sued by the new D’A company. They put patents on the design and tp.
    A bedrock principle of patent law is that you cannot patent something that is already in the patent domain. This is true for both utility patents and design patents. if Arizona Iced Tea has developed some sort of tailpiece that is new and improved over the original DA model, then they could conceivably patent that. But then Mr. Campellone's sale of a copy of the original would not be infringing.

    For what it's worth, the online records at USPTO do not show any patents or patent applications from D'angelico for tailpieces and/or headstocks (they have a couple design patents on pickguards). See Google Patents

    They do have trademarks on various design components of DA guitars, see D'Angelico Guitars of America, LLC Trademark Registration D'Angelico Guitars of America, LLC Trademark Registration

    The headstock one linked above was first applied for in 2017, on an alleged first use in 1994. If someone was using the mark prior to the trademark's applciation, they are generally considered to be a prior user and exempt, at least in the areas where he was selling guitars. But this can be an expensive issue to resolve and as others have said, Arizona Ice Tea can swing their weight around and independent luthiers like Campellone and Triggs probably don't want to spend a whole bunch of money just to be able to sell a couple extra guitars a year.

    For what its worth, the story I heard about Triggs was that early in his independent career he was making DA style guitars that actually said D'angelico on the headstock--Jimmy D'Aquisto saw one and told him it was a fine guitar but in no uncertain terms to stop putting D'Angelico's name on the guitar and use his own. If he has been sent a C&D on the headstock/tailpiece recently the I guess he just ran out of f*cks to give

  14. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammertone
    The current owners of the D'Angelico company have TRADEMARKS, not patents, on what various guitar bits bits and pieces look like, or how they are visually distinguished. Trademarks are different from patents, and are nation-based. Their trademark application for similar items in Europe was rejected. European guitar makers can use those visual styles on their own instruments.

    It is not against trademark law to install an existing D'Angelico-style tailpiece on a guitar that is not being represented as a D'Angelico guitar, but it is against trademark law to represent a guitar as being a D'Angelico when it is not.

    -Bozo
    The actual question for infrinegment is whether the use of the trademark would cause confusion as to the source of the item, regardless of how it is represented in marketing materials. Hence the lawsuit guitars, this article has some nice side by sides of trademark infringers vs. the real thing Please Wait... | Cloudflare...

    Its plain as day those guitars weren't being presented as Fenders and Gibsons...its says Tokai and Ibanez in plain english right on the headstock Compare with fake gucci bags you buy on the streets of NYC...but in each case, these headstocks were so similar to the trademarked version of gibson/fender that a case could be made that a consumer would think the tokai and ibanez guitars were actually gibson/fender. The trademark holder could also also argue the use of the trademark on "inferior" instruments weakened ("diluted") the value of its own trademark. Note the maple (?) fretboard on what I imagine is supposed to be a les paul custom with ebony board


    Pedantic note - Patents, like trademarks, are enforced at the national level, there is not such thing as an international patent

  15. #64

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    In the early 90s the D’Angelico family commissioned Heritage, Triggs and Michael A Lewis to build replicas faithful to an excel and a New Yorker. I own an Excel and New Yorker made by Hrritage, exemplary guitArs

    i Also oen a Triggs New Yorker but it says Triggs on the headstock

    Anyway hammer has managed to piss all over vinnie’s new gear day thread with this argument

    I think I’ll have to put hammer back on my block list because the guy is a hopeless tool

  16. #65
    There is a lot of assumptions on my TP. A couple shadows were seen that made some people jump to conclusions and think they know the design but certainly not the entire design, scroll work, or special engraving. It is a one of a kind that no other guitar in the world has. Built by a sourced out master metal working artist.
    Leave it at that. It will never be shown and a bleak shadow doesn’t mean much.

    Start a separate post regarding patents and trademarks debates please. Thank you.

  17. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
    There is a lot of assumptions on my TP. A couple shadows were seen that made some people jump to conclusions and think they know the design but certainly not the entire design, scroll work, or special engraving. It is a one of a kind that no other guitar in the world has. Built by a sourced out master metal working artist.
    Leave it at that. It will never be shown and a bleak shadow doesn’t mean much.

    Start a separate post regarding patents and trademarks debates please. Thank you.
    Two adult American citizens make an agreement between themselves on a purely private matter. Thank goodness i don't have to worry about this, as it is none of my business.

  18. #67

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    Absolutely beautiful guitar! I imagine with the built-in humbucker it sounds as smooth as silk. Is the rim depth 3”?

    AKA
    Last edited by AKA; 12-11-2021 at 05:34 PM.

  19. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by AKA
    Absolutely beautiful guitar! I imagine with the built-in humbucker it sounds as smooth as silk. Is the dim depth 3”?

    AKA
    Yes 17x3

  20. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by citizenk74
    Two adult American citizens make an agreement between themselves on a purely private matter. Thank goodness i don't have to worry about this, as it is none of my business.
    K…..you have always been a class act and highly respected by me kind Sir.

  21. #70

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    Vinny, I am a bit late to the party, but I wanted to congratulate you on your new instrument. I hope that it brings you many years of playing joy just as my guitars have brought me.

  22. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by iim7V7IM7
    Vinny, I am a bit late to the party, but I wanted to congratulate you on your new instrument. I hope that it brings you many years of playing joy just as my guitars have brought me.
    Thank you Bob !

  23. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
    Lets not forget the Ibanez lawsuit guitars.
    The deepest pocket wins.
    Could it be that Gibson was responsible for forcing Ibanez to create their own guitar, and thereby their SUCCESS!

  24. #73

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    It is hard to imagine Satriani ‘surfing with aliens’ on a Les Paul though!

  25. #74

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    Nature abhors a vacuum.
    By the time Gibson reacted to Hoshino and others, it was too late - all of the key Gibson products had already been copied and finessed by the Japanese, and Gibson's terrible management, bad quality control and non-competitive pricing, made it very easy for the Japanese to become significant players, with plenty of room for innovation. Not a lot of force, just a sustained, gentle sucking.