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  1. #26

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    SS amp's (or digitals) make great workhorse practice amps because you can just leave them on all day and everytime you pickup your guitar they are ready to go. If you play sporadically thought-out the day/night that's something to consider.

    As much as SS amps sound great and I use them most the time, I do agree that a Princeton or other small tube amps offer something a little extra tonewise. But if you already have a tube amp, then I'd say an SS amp for daily practicing might be more practical.
    Last edited by Tal_175; 10-24-2021 at 01:59 PM.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
    What about the Fender Tonemaster Deluxe? Anybody want to suggest that?
    I think that is too big, but is fender thinking about a smaller amp in the tonemaster series? That would be great. A 10" speakered amp with the tonemaster technologie.

    The Princeton is cheaper than i thought. New it's still €1.000,-. Maybe after trading in my Koch? Maybe second hand.
    Last edited by Marcel_A; 10-24-2021 at 02:15 PM.

  4. #28

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    Quilter Aviator Cub, with its Blackface, Blonde, and Tweed settings, for $650 US? Or the Superblock US, which has the same array in a pedal-sized unit, for $275 (without speaker)? The Aviator Cub is being touted as a "Tone Master killer".

  5. #29

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    My Monday evening playing buddy just bought a Tone Master Deluxe, which I have used the past 2-3 times we've played. It has sounded great with semi-hollows with P90s and HBs, a Tele, a Strat-ish type thing, my GB10. Trying my 17" archtop next. The power attenuation makes it work great for in-home volumes and it would be plenty loud for gigging. It does not sound to my ears exactly like a vintage tube Deluxe Reverb (but of course neither does every vintage tube DR sound the same), but it does sound most excellent. It's smaller than my Pro Reverb or my buddy's Twin and a fraction of the weight, larger than my tweed Deluxe but slightly lighter.

  6. #30

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    That quilter aviator cub seems nice! Maybe a bit too big, but i like it.

  7. #31

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    I'm a Quilter nut. If you want smaller and a 10 inch speaker have a look at BlockDock 10. Then look at the Block series amps that mount into that to make a small combo amp. I like the ToneBlock 202. Many like the 101.

    They haven't updated the 100 series for quite some time. All their latest amps have the Tweed,Blackface,Blonde and/or Plexi voicing options, as well as a more active Bass,Mid,Treb section. Some have found the 101 to be a bit trebly for them. I expect a 102 will be released soon, which I think will resemble their newer offerings and help to tame that.

    I might wait a bit if you like the BlockDock 10 idea. They tend to release new stuff at a pretty quick pace, and I believe the 101 is due for an update.

    I like that little cab a lot. I also use the BlockDock 12 when I want a bigger sound. Sometimes both together.

    Just another option...

  8. #32

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    If I lived in the Netherlands (and sometimes I wish I did), I would buy an Elfring amp.

  9. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by raymoan
    Quilter Aviator Cub, with its Blackface, Blonde, and Tweed settings, for $650 US? Or the Superblock US, which has the same array in a pedal-sized unit, for $275 (without speaker)? The Aviator Cub is being touted as a "Tone Master killer".
    This. Buy the Superblock US mini head and a separate cab with whatever 10” you like. Dead simple and sounds great—easily gets you into the Princeton sound without breaking your budget.

  10. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Litterick
    If I lived in the Netherlands (and sometimes I wish I did), I would buy an Elfring amp.
    Exactly! Get an Elfring Little Gem Marcel. You won't regret it. There's a near mint at TFOA now: Elfring Little Gem 2021 - The Fellowship of Acoustics

    I replaced the pre-amp tube with a 12AY7 and the headroom is now sufficient even for a not too quiet drummer.

  11. #35

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    That shop is situated in my place of birth!

    Anyway: why not purchase a Mesa Boogie Mark iv while we are at it. I don't wanna spent that kind of money on an amp. I am gonna trade in my Koch and pay a few €100 to make up the difference. So it should be in the €500 range. Those Elfrings seem nice, but are not that available second hand.

  12. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by citizenk74
    If I may concur and expand on this thought a bit.... The Princeton, reverb or no, sounds fabulous at living room levels. It will sound different when pushed harder on stage, but that is not necessarily bad, it's just an item to be reckoned with - mic-ing to FOH and using the amp as a personal monitor seems to follow - the point being, the little beauties are just great-sounding amps that can make practicing not merely a necessary chore but a positive pleasure. This for me, is worth something.

    As for budget, you may, with patience, find an amp with cosmetic issues for an acceptable financial outlay. Good luck in your quest.
    it’s a pain to use tube amps live though. I hate the fact that you have to mic them, and can’t change the stage volume independently of FOH. These are features I get very used to with modern amps. I find using this amp live it’s a real challenge to dial in a good sound which has the right amount of compression and no ‘ice pick’ ness. Amp can sound very pinched. Maybe I need a Deluxe.

    It’s also practical to have an amp that takes up very little room, then you can all squeeze into one car and it reduces travel costs. Also light amps for public transport. So mostly the Princeton is used as a practice and recording amp, which tbh was what the amp was always great at.

    Engineers are increasingly used to stuff like Axe FX where they just use an XLR. Seriously the guy on a recent gig tried to unplug the speaker cable when the thing was turned on, I had to stop him!

    So the tonemasters are a great idea in this light. Still a bit bulky for the public transport schlep and muso-mobiles, so while I’ve been tempted I’ve gone down the micro head&speaker route. But I can’t see any reason why TM’s wouldn’t make great practice and gigging amps.
    Last edited by Christian Miller; 10-25-2021 at 05:57 AM.

  13. #37

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    So the short list has been extended:

    - Fender Pro Junior
    - Fender XD (although i don't really like the concept)
    - Quilter amp with a 10" cabinet (hard to get by unless ordered online)

  14. #38

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    I’m having trouble buying a Quilter Superblock US. Supply chain issues I think?

  15. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel_A
    That shop is situated in my place of birth!

    Anyway: why not purchase a Mesa Boogie Mark iv while we are at it. I don't wanna spent that kind of money on an amp. I am gonna trade in my Koch and pay a few €100 to make up the difference. So it should be in the €500 range. Those Elfrings seem nice, but are not that available second hand.
    What’s wrong with the Koch?

  16. #40

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    This thread has re-ignited my GAS for a Pro Junior. (I'd put a Cannabis Rex 10 or Greenback 10 in it)...

  17. #41

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    I have a Tonemaster Deluxe for sale. It's perfect for both bedroom levels and gigging. I don't use it enough to justify keeping it.
    I live in the same country btw...

  18. #42

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    What about a 70s Champ?

  19. #43

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    If you want a real tube amp with TM features
    and cheaper than a Fender, I would recommend the Peavey Classic. Those amps are no joke. Underrated.

  20. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    What’s wrong with the Koch?
    Not much, but it is too big. Tonewise it is a very good amp, but i don't like the size and weight of it. I would like something with a smaller cab/speaker.

    Btw: it doesn't have to be tubes.

  21. #45

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    no
    Quote Originally Posted by st.bede
    I have both a Princeton (non-reverb) and a Pro Jr. (I have also played a number of Princeton Verb, and I have found them to be a little dirty-er, in a crunchy way, that won’t allow me to get the cleans that I like).

    Both the Princeton and Pro Jr, are excellent amps. The cleans are a bit different but both make me happy. I would say the Pro Jr adds some more/different harmonic content and sooner then the Princeton.

    The Princeton seems to be more focused and balanced. I think the focuse is coming from more extended high content, and that the balance is coming from a tighter bottom(ish) end (that could be in the low mids or high lows, not so much down in the lower low range).

    The Pro Jr has a more pronounced mid range that is a little thicker/richer. (Not sure if that is because it lacks extended highs in comparison to other amps or whatnot).

    I finds the Pro Jr cleans to be perfectly useful for jazz stuff. (I only have a simi-hollowbody with flatwounds. My other guitars have roundwounds on them. Not sure what would happen with a big hollowbody with fat strings).

    Both amps can be loud(ish) however I think that the PJ could keep up with a drummer better. I would say that you get more harmonic content early in the volume on PJ and that as the amp gets turned up it gets richer faster and at a loud volume still stays clean(ish) enough for me. In someways it is more of a blues amp then a jazz amp but that is about what type of clean you want. (It is not a Twin or a JC). I would say the PJ is probably better for home use and even gig use. (I did buy my PJ during Covid and have not really put it through many possible uses.. so I am making a guess here).

    At the same time even though I do not get to use my Princeton in jams or gig situations that much, there is a little chance of me ever selling that amp. It has such a beautiful tone.

    (For reverb: there are great pedals and even spring tanks out there. Also/or a delay used in a certain way can really fill in the sound).
    Speaker choice makes a massive difference to the gigability of small Fenders. Remember no one give a shit about jazz players. Blues and indie type players will want a break up sound, so that’s what small tube amps are set up to do.

    Luckily it’s really easy to swap the speakers. For a 10” with sensitivity and a nice warm jazz tone I’d recommend the L’il Buddy. You can get into the woods with tubes as well and mods, if you know what you are doing, I guess. I had to change my PRRI’s speaker to make it useful as a gigging amp.

    If it’s a practice amp it scarcely matters.

    BTW, I never liked Pro Jrs (or Blues Jrs) with my ES175 with flatwounds. Great with a tele. I might have to give it another go now I’ve got rounds on. Reverb does a lot to smooth the sound out, but I hate the idea of being reliant on it.

  22. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcel_A
    Not much, but it is too big. Tonewise it is a very good amp, but i don't like the size and weight of it. I would like something with a smaller cab/speaker.

    Btw: it doesn't have to be tubes.
    What size/weight would be good? Also budget seems to be sub 1000 ish I guess?

  23. #47

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    30 x 30. About 10 kg's? Budget should be €350 for the Koch + a few hundred euro's. So about €550 - €650,-. Preferably second hand.

  24. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    If you want a real tube amp with TM features
    and cheaper than a Fender, I would recommend the Peavey Classic. Those amps are no joke. Underrated.
    Indeed. Altho he would need the smallest one: the Classic 20. I owned a Classic 20 combo, it did not have much headroom... it was a little dirt box.But the Classics are underrated, due to the badge reading "Peavey" instead of "Fender". Great amps. I owned a Classic 50 410 for years, but it just got too big/heavy to deal with, I've switched to 1x12/1x10 combos.

  25. #49

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    My TM Deluxe is up for 750, but I might let it go for a bit less. It's quite a bit bigger than 30x30 though. Slightly heavier than 10kgs.

  26. #50

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    I’d hold out for the TM Deluxe. Pro juniors are useful too, but not so much to my taste.