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  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175
    It's interesting that Anderton's have an undercurrent of "not knowing your instrument makes you a true guitarist" attitude. I was under the impression that most guitarists have moved on from that attitude a long time ago. Even the 20+ year pro Danish Pete seems to share that sentiment.

    It sounds like practicing concepts to play over the changes in order to develop ears and fretboard skills is alien technology to them. They should invite Ariel Posen when they do "Jazzy" demos.
    Lee Anderton who runs the business took it over from his dad. I don't think Lee had much of an interest in music or playing in the early years. I could be wrong as I don't know him as a family member or long term friend but I think if he hadn't of got involved in his dads business, he would have never picked up a guitar in the first place.

    Recently though, and I say over the last 10 years he has made an effort to learn the guitar and (damn my fav Bill Frisell song just came on whilst wiring this message and it's the most haunting piece he's composed to date. Should have been the theme tune to Twin Peaks), where was I? Oh yes, so I give him credit for taking on the challenge of learning and coming on as well as he has.
    He plays more now than I do and am younger than he is.
    So with this in mind, I give Lee credit. The prat (I say in jest) he hangs around with 'Chappers' has probably rotted his mind out with rock and metal and solid body guitars, which is the world most of these people live in. They gush over Les Pauls and the latest finish on a Fender.
    They look at us as the weirdos for liking jazz guitars but we already know this.

    I was speaking to a salesman in Andertons this week and he was incredibly knowledgable. He asked me what guitars I liked and I said "jazz guitars" to which he grabbed a Gretsch.

    It's all a good laugh in the end.

    Now back to my song.

    Skip To 27:30


  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    So Pete career? ... Shitty? ... Not really worth mentioning? .. Dude can't play?
    Are you just making up stuff I didn't say? He says he doesn't know what he is playing (in terms of what he is playing over the changes) but that doesn't mean he can't play well. I wasn't in anyway implying that he is a shitty player.

  4. #28

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    Jazz is not their wheelhouse. We would all know that- the talent pool of their friends is huge but in different genres.
    But I for one appreciate their effort to try- what other vendors with such reach do?
    I’ve seen earlier vids of theirs with DvMark little jazz, and Ibanez artstar and yes- sales spiels but better than nothing.
    jazz specific hardware is probably <5% of their sales? If it was that high, then perhaps 1 in 20 of their team would have a focal interest in playing these instruments proficiently?

    keep in mind Covid is stopping a lot of travel still and for those lucky to perform again they are probably filling their calendars as hard as they can.

    Lee has come an extraordinary way in his own guitar skills over the last 5 odd years. I wish I could claim to say the same. Good on you Captain! Now go dig up Simon Jarrett next time he is in the UK or Robben Ford if he is about. Surely the UK has some filthy good guys with Jazz Chops to do those guitars justice.
    m

  5. #29

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    They know what they are doing. They are introducing the idea of owning a jazz guitar to their audience of rock guitarists. If they brought in a jazz guitarist to play real jazz and talk about changes, they would lose their audience. The viewers know and trust the Captain and Danish Pete, who show it is possible to play something nice on this sort of guitar, without spending four years learning everything in every key. Besides, banter is better than chops. This show is wildly popular because the presenters have a rapport.

  6. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175
    Are you just making up stuff I didn't say? He says he doesn't know what he is playing (in terms of what he is playing over the changes) but that doesn't mean he can't play well. I wasn't in anyway implying that he is a shitty player.

    I just like to bait .. But my point was actually that he says whatever sells the most guitars.

    After all he has a college degree and a great career, chances are that despite not really being a jazz artist he still bloody well knows what he is doing

    But saying "Hey you need to practice for years and study a lot in other to play this box (and not be the laughing stock over at JG.be)" isn't going to sell as many guitars as "Look at me, I don't know what I'm doing and I sound ok .. This means that you, who also don't know what you're doing, can sound ok too".

    No reason to take him too seriously

  7. #31

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    I never make comments about a players playing level, online or privately. Not because I'm polite but because it's what it is and it's uninteresting, we are all students in this infinite domain (hopefully). Pete seems to be a very musical player.

    I may observe when someone appears to be not as comfortable in a style as much as other styles they play but that wasn't even the point of my comment.

    These more commercially oriented youtube channels seem to have an alienated stance towards formal approaches to music. Early on in the video they were jokingly referring to buying a jazz book and studying it as going to the "dark side". By the "dark side" I think they mean taking a more formal approach to music. Like it's not what the cool kids do. They were also framing Rick Beato's content as some sort of alternative universe of music way outside the scope of normal musicians.

    Mick in the That pedal show also seems to have a similar implicit framing of music to his audience. Whenever Dan starts getting technical or starts playing more interesting harmonies by dynamically moving chords and what not, I'm under the impression that Mick feels the need to reign him in, lol.

    I guess part of the reason is they want to optimize their content for the largest viewership possible. But then Rick Beato seems to get more views then them. Go figure.
    Last edited by Tal_175; 10-21-2021 at 08:20 AM.

  8. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175
    I never make comments about a players playing level, online or privately. Not because I'm polite but because it's what it is and it's uninteresting, we are all students in this infinite domain (hopefully). Pete seems to be a very musical player.

    I may observe when someone appears to be not as comfortable in a style as much as other styles they play but that wasn't even the point of my comment.

    These more commercially oriented youtube channels seem to have an alienated stance towards formal approaches to music. Early on in the video they were jokingly referring to buying a jazz book and studying it as going to the "dark side". By the "dark side" I think they mean taking a more formal approach to music. Like it's not what the cool kids do. They were also framing Rick Beato's content as some sort of alternative universe of music way outside the scope of normal musicians.

    Mick in the That pedal show also seems to have a similar implicit framing of music to his audience. Whenever Dan starts getting technical or starts playing more interesting harmonies by dynamically moving chords and what not, I'm under the impression that Mick feels the need to reign him in, lol.

    I guess part of the reason is they want to optimize their content for the largest viewership possible. But then Rick Beato seems to get more views then them. Go figure.
    Im much more bothered by the assumption that jazz has anything necessarily to do with music theory. But these myths run deep.

  9. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    Im much more bothered by the assumption that jazz has anything necessarily to do with music theory. But these myths run deep.
    At the risk of further derailing this thread in epic proportions I'd like to add the following.

    I think there is a real value in knowing music and your instrument well enough to be able to pick any tune in your chosen style (doesn't have to be jazz) and create instant arrangements of it by harmonizing the melody in different ways and alternating that with improvised lines in the spirit of the tune.

    When I say harmonizing the melody, I don't mean by just using memorized grips but finding different bass notes and inner voices that work in the harmonic space of the moment.

    I think a lot of guitar players intrinsically crave this level of ability because they know what their instrument is capable of. I don't know if you can achieve this without studying your instrument and music/harmony at least to the extend that they apply to the musical styles you identify with.

    I've met good "ear players", some of them professional. I don't want to generalize from anecdotal conversations but I do think many of them feel that there is a gap in their understanding of the instrument and music. There is something perpetually mystifying about guitar that strictly "ear only" way of relating to the instrument will never resolve.
    Last edited by Tal_175; 10-22-2021 at 10:33 AM.

  10. #34

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    I have a gut feeling these Heritage Guitars only exist because people (generally men) in their mid-40s might have the disposable incomes to start buying their collections! I can only say I am still on the left side of that bell curve (still too expensive for my blood). Large Franchise music stores are not selling to my age group unless they hold the odd Ibanez.

    I don't know if Anderton's qualifies as a family shop still or is too big to try please everyone. But perhaps they are still in that middle group where they have turnover and audience big enough for Gibson/Fender/Martin etc to take them seriously and dedicate stock to them, but no so big that they cannot afford to stock boutique or niche products such as these Heritage Hollowbodies. Lets hope for the sake of Hollowbodies in general that sales in this area take off. But until someone like Ed Sheeran, Taylor Swift or John Mayer picked up one of these for a tour, I would not hold my breath.

  11. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by EastwoodMike
    I have a gut feeling these Heritage Guitars only exist because people (generally men) in their mid-40s might have the disposable incomes to start buying their collections! I can only say I am still on the left side of that bell curve (still too expensive for my blood). Large Franchise music stores are not selling to my age group unless they hold the odd Ibanez.

    I don't know if Anderton's qualifies as a family shop still or is too big to try please everyone. But perhaps they are still in that middle group where they have turnover and audience big enough for Gibson/Fender/Martin etc to take them seriously and dedicate stock to them, but no so big that they cannot afford to stock boutique or niche products such as these Heritage Hollowbodies. Lets hope for the sake of Hollowbodies in general that sales in this area take off. But until someone like Ed Sheeran, Taylor Swift or John Mayer picked up one of these for a tour, I would not hold my breath.
    Andertons know their market.
    I would bet my bottom dollar that Andertons have teamed up with Heritage because of the margins.

  12. #36

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    I took the "dark side" comment as a reference to "jazz tone," that is, a joke.
    I found it humorous.

  13. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175
    At the risk of further derailing this thread in epic proportions I'd like to add the following.

    I think there is a real value in knowing music and your instrument well enough to be able to pick any tune in your chosen style (doesn't have to be jazz) and create instant arrangements of it by harmonizing the melody in different ways and alternating that with improvised lines in the spirit of the tune.

    When I say harmonizing the melody, I don't mean by just using memorized grips but finding different bass notes and inner voices that work in the harmonic space of the moment.

    I think a lot of guitar players intrinsically crave this level of ability because they know what their instrument is capable of. I don't know if you can achieve this without studying your instrument and music/harmony at least to the extend that they apply to the musical styles you identify with.

    I've met good "ear players", some of them professional. I don't want to generalize from anecdotal conversations but I do think many of them feel that there is a gap in their understanding of the instrument and music. There is something perpetually mystifying about guitar that strictly "ear only" way of relating to the instrument will never resolve.
    I think that's imposter syndrome. Evaluate a player on how good they are, not what they say about their own playing. That counts just as much for the good ones as certain JGO posters lol.

    Anyway, this all misses the essential point - which is that people think (straightahead) jazz is uniquely arcane and requires special theoretical knowledge (tm) to unlock it. That's sold a lot of books.

    Anyway it's all humour anyway, but I think it speaks to a common thread in what a lot of good non-jazz players think that's what jazz is and then get confused when they get told to listen to records haha

  14. #38

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    I like Lee and Danish Pete and find them entertaining. But they certainly are bell weathers of what’s selling in gear and music these days. And I am not interested in Kindergarten or Highschool any longer at 64 years of age.

    But I’m also not trying to be an Amway salesperson any longer,LOL!

  15. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    Im much more bothered by the assumption that jazz has anything necessarily to do with music theory. But these myths run deep.
    But of course playing a traditional or ‘straight-ahead’ jazz tune can easily have more to do with music theory than playing a standard rock or pop tune, for at least the following practical reasons: the chords are changing more frequently, there may be modulations to close or distant keys (or modes), and using extensions involves placing notes that might sound appropriate on one beat but not another.

  16. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by jads57
    I like Lee and Danish Pete and find them entertaining. But they certainly are bell weathers of what’s selling in gear and music these days. And I am not interested in Kindergarten or Highschool any longer at 64 years of age.

    But I’m also not trying to be an Amway salesperson any longer,LOL!
    I find them quite fun, I don’t mean to come across like I take what they say too seriously

  17. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by cmajor9
    But of course playing a traditional or ‘straight-ahead’ jazz tune can easily have more to do with music theory than playing a standard rock or pop tune, for at least the following practical reasons: the chords are changing more frequently, there may be modulations to close or distant keys (or modes), and using extensions involves placing notes that might sound appropriate on one beat but not another.
    but aha - here’s the thing - you could say the exact same thing about prog rock. The thing is it’s a self fulfilling thing cos prog rockers get off on music theory and so do people who play contemporary jazz so it’s hard to find a counter example.

    Yeah, the reality is … more complex (it usually is).

    (I hate getting into the woods with this debate which is why I put things the way I did. Look at my original comment re this, and notice the use of the word ‘necessary.’ It is a false dichotomy… theory doesn’t mean you’ll not be able to play be ear.)

    playing by ear is not that uncommon in straightahead (pre Coltrane) jazz. Most of the good bop players I know are primarily ear players for example. They know their theory but the theory you learn in college is not really relevant to bop; you have to learn the idiom by ear. Some know no theory, this was more common with the older players of course.

    learning purely by ear is still the rule in the Manouche and Sinti communities for however, as well as many players from outside that community interested in the style, and a lot of those players; and they play bop, Chick Corea and so on as well as Django.

    and herein lies the rub, 60 years ago jazz wasn’t in the academy so much and it had a link to the street music of the time. It had a cultural practice. So people learned however they could - sometimes with theory - but not always, and the ear was central for all musicians regardless

    Do you need to know theory to play non functional stuff? Wayne shorter etc? I don’t know. I think it seems like Wayne himself is VERY right brain so to speak. But obviously his tunes are taught as scale things so that’s how everyone approaches them.

    interesting questions to ask anyway, I wouldn’t say I know the answers; but it seems to me being a good jazz player is no different from being a good musician in any style (and a lot of that is as much about the social side of it). This mystique, to be frank, is irritating and counterproductive.
    Last edited by Christian Miller; 10-22-2021 at 03:46 PM. Reason: Screed control

  18. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    but aha - here’s the thing - you could say the exact same thing about prog rock. The thing is it’s a self fulfilling thing cos prog rockers get off on music theory and so do people who play contemporary jazz so it’s hard to find a counter example.

    .
    My take is that you must know theory to play jazz. My favourite thing Jazz musicians say, is that they don't practice because it's nonsense.

    The reason Jazz musicians in the past didn't need to go to Jazz school, is because for a start, such a thing didn't exist. You had the band stand and you played for 7-13 hours every night. That in itself is a form of classroom. You had peer pressure (the dropping of the symbol), you had band leaders and I can bet the latest in theory was going round the bandstands like a dose of salts.

    In my mind the reason jazz schools exist is to recreate the Bandstand (classroom) that long ago disappeared because without it, you're just learning on your own. The teachers use the classroom as their bandstand to evolve theory and impart knowledge and the students get to play a lot of jazz and put their acquired theory to the test in the classroom (bandstand).

    The idea (and Im no saying it's being promoted here) that old jazz musicians (mostly black) didn't know theory or need any or study, I think is wrong and rather prejudice.

    Take the Skatalites for example. A Jamaican jazz band. They were taught theory at a music school run by nuns. Otherwise you would wondered where this evolved language came from, on a small and somewhat backward island like Jamaica?

    I taught myself to play the guitar in the ferrel sense as I had no lessons or formal training. I listened to songs by ear (Radiohead's creep is the song I learned first), someone showed me a major bar chord and several years later I was playing bob Dylan, John Martyn, Incredible String Band etc.. all by ear.
    When I wanted to put a band together, some musicians asked me what key my songs were written in and I had no idea what they were talking about.
    I realised at that point, I needed to understand what music theory was.
    When I auditioned for Jazz school they wanted me to go into the 2nd year based on my playing but I said I didn't know any theory. The lecturer asked me to play a major scale and I asked him what a scale was.
    I then spent the first year of jazz school learning the most rudimentary parts of music theory.
    I didn't even know the names of the guitar strings.

    Sure I could play folk, funk, pop, death metal, rock etc but I couldn't play Jazz.

    And that's why those people who don't play jazz or have any musical training, think it's such a big deal. They can play all the other types of music, mostly by ear and one blues scale. To evolve from that is a big step out of your comfort zone.
    And why should you? They think the greatest ever guitar player is Eric Clapton.
    They've never heard of Wes Montgomery, Johnny Smith, Hank Garland, George Benson etc..
    You only have to play a G13 and they think you're doing some sort of sexy whitch craft.
    "Sounds Jazzy man".

    I'm not knocking it, I've been on both sides.

  19. #43

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    While entertainment always sells, it’s a shame it’s been appropriated by average players. I now understand what Johnny Smith meant when he said our time is up fellas!

  20. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchtopHeaven
    My take is that you must know theory to play jazz.
    There are many counter examples, historical and contemporary.

    Again, it can be a bit of a black box problem because when someone like Art Pepper or the excellent jazz guitarist I worked with last week say they didn’t know theory (but was starting to learn it with a teacher), I have no idea what goes on in their head when they practice or play. It seems likely that they means'I don't know the names of things.' So, there might be some sort of systematic approach going on there, some way of understating and categorising music just cos that’s the way the brain works I think.

    Like my friend who said ‘I was playing all these scales with out knowing what they were’. Of course, whatever you think about when practicing, the actual essence of making music is always intuitive. Otherwise it goes off the rails very fast.

    OTOH I’m a native English speaker and have no clue about English grammar.

    The proof is also in the music itself, transcribing soloists who were breaking every theoretical rule and sounding great because they heard what they were doing intensely. In that situation as a student of the music, you have the choice of using some complicated theory to justify it, or shrugging your shoulders and accepting that while theory is a useful resource sometimes, but when it comes down to it time, tone and melody are more important. I’m thinking of Prez (‘never tell me the changes’), Chet Baker, Art Pepper… Getz. Miles too, often (although he certainly knew theory.)

    of course knowing theory didn’t mean players didn’t also transcend it - there’s a great bit in Paul Berliners wonderful book about Parker pointing out to Miles in the club how Prez would break the rules as he played.

    (The idea that jazz is fixated on harmony necessarily is usually what people are talking about here re: theory of course. Harmony is a actually fairly small part of what makes someone sound like a jazz musician.)

    My favourite thing Jazz musicians say, is that they don't practice because it's nonsense.
    I have to say I’ve not come across jazz players saying this. I have heard many working players who say they don’t practice much. This is usually because they don’t have time to practice because they are too busy working (I think Lage Lund said he gets 15m a day).

    This obviously doesn’t mean they have never practiced. For most working players practicing eight hour a day etc was a period in their life; usually early on of course. I imagine most working players have gone through that crucible, if not all.

    I suppose there’s that famous Wes quote; but I don’t think that was ever intended to be taken literally. Maybe you have another instance in kind?

    in both cases it is true that many players were mythologising themselves back in the 20th century.

    The reason Jazz musicians in the past didn't need to go to Jazz school, is because for a start, such a thing didn't exist. You had the band stand and you played for 7-13 hours every night. That in itself is a form of classroom. You had peer pressure (the dropping of the symbol), you had band leaders and I can bet the latest in theory was going round the bandstands like a dose of salts.
    Sure. Although theory chat is not that common among professionals - books do certainly come up. Anyway none of this really relates to what I’m driving at. Some players historically (Trane etc) devoured Slonimsky, for instance. Others were totally uninterested in that stuff.

    In my mind the reason jazz schools exist is to recreate the Bandstand (classroom) that long ago disappeared because without it, you're just learning on your own. The teachers use the classroom as their bandstand to evolve theory and impart knowledge and the students get to play a lot of jazz and put their acquired theory to the test in the classroom (bandstand). The idea (and Im no saying it's being promoted here) that old jazz musicians (mostly black) didn't know theory or need any or study, I think is wrong and rather prejudice.Take the Skatalites for example. A Jamaican jazz band. They were taught theory at a music school run by nuns. Otherwise you would wondered where this evolved language came from, on a small and somewhat backward island like Jamaica?I taught myself to play the guitar in the ferrel sense as I had no lessons or formal training. I listened to songs by ear (Radiohead's creep is the song I learned first), someone showed me a major bar chord and several years later I was playing bob Dylan, John Martyn, Incredible String Band etc.. all by ear. When I wanted to put a band together, some musicians asked me what key my songs were written in and I had no idea what they were talking about. I realised at that point, I needed to understand what music theory was. When I auditioned for Jazz school they wanted me to go into the 2nd year based on my playing but I said I didn't know any theory. The lecturer asked me to play a major scale and I asked him what a scale was. I then spent the first year of jazz school learning the most rudimentary parts of music theory. I didn't even know the names of the guitar strings. Sure I could play folk, funk, pop, death metal, rock etc but I couldn't play Jazz.And that's why those people who don't play jazz or have any musical training think it's such a big deal. They can play all the other types of music mostly be y ear and one blue scale. To evolve from that is a big step out of your comfort zone.
    Yeha so there’s a lot to unpack here. There’s a few things. Pretty much all of what you say is true.

    It’s an area I am researching for my Masters so it’s tempting to write EVEN MORE.

    But what I would say, is follow the money. While there’s a lot of people criticising Anderton’s for shilling guitars, there’s a huge jazz education industry dedicated to selling courses and books. Big money….

    And a cozy for relationship with edu and contemporary jazz performance, because the two things are locked into each other now and co-dependent. This has possibly affected the development of jazz towards this more ‘obviously complex’ direction - my working theory is that this is a virtuous cycle for the academy, because it creates a need for hyper specialised skills that they are well equipped to teach. This is just natural evolution, people needing to find a living, but if that's accurate, it has made the music more preoccupied around what we might term ‘nerdy shit.’

    It's interesting what you say about your experience with the college. I mean from face value that just seems to bear out what I was saying. Anyway, I'm not saying I think learning theory did your playing any harm if you were already using your lugholes. That's a myth for sure. Not hating on scales, reading etc, love that stuff.

    In general, when I get into these things people get quite heated about it. They often have a lot of investment, financial, emotional and so on into this stuff. I'm not saying it's 'better' to do it without theory. But the point is - not only is it possible, it is not actually as rare as you might think.

    But you have to question it all when some 14 year old who has never been to music college in his life and doesn’t know a Lydian Dominant from a hole in the road is pissing rings around you on Donna Lee. Not a fairy story, this does happen haha. Maybe rare in the US, where everyone seems to go to school, but hang out in Paris...

    OTOH, I would say I think jazz courses are doing their best, and trying to mirror that community of practice. When you have faculty that play the music to a high level, they understand what’s important. I just hope that no one would think that the value of going to Berklee, say, is in their teaching materials or syllabus. But that’s another rant haha

    EDIT: BTW bloody love John Martyn.
    Last edited by Christian Miller; 10-22-2021 at 05:12 PM.

  21. #45

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    Anyway, to cut all the verbiage, what I wanted to really address was really rather prevalent idea that there is secret jazz knowledge that is found in books and that jazz = music theory.

    And anyone who takes a lesson with a halfway competent jazz guitarist is disabused of that notion very quickly.

    For all that we might debate whether or not you need theory to play jazz, or if it helps, there's no question that you can know all the theory in the world and not be able to play a note of jazz. That's obvious, right?

  22. #46

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    And that's why those people who don't play jazz or have any musical training, think it's such a big deal. They can play all the other types of music, mostly by ear and one blues scale. To evolve from that is a big step out of your comfort zone.


    Dude, seriously, if you can only hear the blues scale you don't have very good ears innit.

    There's plenty of self styled 'ear players' who have actually have - no ears. It's just BS, and it can easily be found out very quick by actually making them play stuff by ear.

    Which is TBH a lot of what I teach when I teach jazz. Play this phrase back, play this melody, learn this head by ear etc. Most of them know their scales. Even if they don't, you can build a lot of the phrases in bop around map in nicely around the chord shapes anyway. The whole A section of 'Segment' could be built around Bb minor barre shape at the 6th fret, for example. CAGED works great for that stuff.

    But speaking of the dreaded blooz then there's probably people out there who think of bars 4-5 of 'Confirmation' as a 'Bb7b9 arpeggio'. I bet they're out there, poor saps haha.

    And why should you? They think the greatest ever guitar player is Eric Clapton.


    Nah it's clearly John Mayer now ;-)

    They've never heard of Wes Montgomery, Johnny Smith, Hank Garland, George Benson etc..
    You only have to play a G13 and they think you're doing some sort of sexy whitch craft.
    "Sounds Jazzy man".


    Hey it worked for Freddie!

    https://youtu.be/nqn4nyZz0to

    But yeah, that think when they play up the scale in drop 2 seventh chords, in every archtop demo on YouTube? Haha, you got to laugh (or you'd cry)

  23. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArchtopHeaven

    Now back to my song.

    Skip To 27:30


    Just another jazz guitarist with a Bigsby!

  24. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty Grass
    Just another jazz guitarist with a Bigsby!
    I just love the fact someone shuts the barn door and Bill is like 'sweet'.

  25. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller


    Dude, seriously, if you can only hear the blues scale you don't have very good ears innit.

    There's plenty of self styled 'ear players' who have actually have - no ears. It's just BS, and it can easily be found out very quick by actually making them play stuff by ear.

    Which is TBH a lot of what I teach when I teach jazz. Play this phrase back, play this melody, learn this head by ear etc. Most of them know their scales. Even if they don't, you can build a lot of the phrases in bop around map in nicely around the chord shapes anyway. The whole A section of 'Segment' could be built around Bb minor barre shape at the 6th fret, for example. CAGED works great for that stuff.

    But speaking of the dreaded blooz then there's probably people out there who think of bars 4-5 of 'Confirmation' as a 'Bb7b9 arpeggio'. I bet they're out there, poor saps haha.



    Nah it's clearly John Mayer now ;-)



    Hey it worked for Freddie!

    https://youtu.be/nqn4nyZz0to

    But yeah, that think when they play up the scale in drop 2 seventh chords, in every archtop demo on YouTube? Haha, you got to laugh (or you'd cry)

    Well I can only tell you my experience and my experience is this.

    Most jazz musicians lie about how much training the've had.
    They lie about how much they practice.
    And people always think that those who came before had less knowledge.

    Whilst the third point is true it's not clear because and for example, when I was younger, I thought music, like technology, was linear.
    I thought Cream and Eric Clapton, Jimi Hendrix, The dude from Emerson Lake and Palmer, who was clearly a genius, were the pinnacle of 20,000 years of human and musical evolution.

    But then someone told me about Django Reinhardt.

    Looking back is like asking a fortune teller the future. You're going to get a lot of BS and the answer you went looking for, for the most part.

    Jazz and classical music are advanced art forms. Pop and rock is not. There is a reason why 90% of rock guitarist never took or needed a lesson.

    There is as much a study of human psychology in why people tell you the things they do, especially musicians, than there is trying to learn from the past.

    Everyone wants to look good. There are very few people who will tell you "yeh I had no friends growing up, I practiced like 16 hours a day and I didn't lose my virginity til I was 26"

    They're much more likely to tell you "yeh I don't practice much, couple hours here and there"

    No one will tell you how hard they worked in any field, unless working hard means you get more money and zero street cred means a juicy bonus.

    That's not to say that it's bad or that people who do this are bad. Everyone does it to some degree. I'm talking about human behaviour not that musicians are inherently untrustworthy. They are normal ppl.

    I'm too many red wines in to have this conversation lol.

    Cheers

  26. #50

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    IMHO these two really missed a chance to show off all the different tonal capabilities of these guitars. With a little more effort and some homework they could have pulled up some T-Bone Walker,
    some Scotty Moore, some early BB King, then jump ahead to Steve Howe (YES) , Eric Gale , Pat Metheny and all who came after (and no, Ted N. is NOT on my list).... instead they stab around on the fretboard, try very hard to show some cliche "jazzy" runs and collect egg on their faces while doing so. Ok, they are funny at times and joke around like your best friends but THIS show they didn't take very seriously. Mission failed.
    When a half way serious player looks around the www for info on Heritage archtops he/she will eventually find Rich Severson and will actually learn a thing or two.