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  1. #1

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    I have some Telcasters ,one Stratocaster and some nylon strings guitars but I always go back to my arch-top hollow body guitar.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    I have a suspicion as to what, from all I gather, does NOT appear to be the reason.

    Very broadly speaking, it's not so much the "color of the sound" as the "nature of the tonal response".

    If that makes any sense.

  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by palindrome
    I have a suspicion as to what, from all I gather, does NOT appear to be the reason.

    Very broadly speaking, it's not so much the "color of the sound" as the "nature of the tonal response".

    If that makes any sense.
    "nature of the tonal response"...+1

  5. #4

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    they look and sound bad ass

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by feet
    they look and sound bad ass
    not all of them...

  7. #6

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    They sound and feel good to play.

    Also its the traditional type of guitar for straight-ahead jazz, for those who care about such things.

  8. #7

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    I often ask myself what guitarists expect from new arch-top models ...?
    There is a large group of guitar builders and they seem to be looking for a new sound quality...?

  9. #8

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    Image is a factor

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tricky Fish
    Image is a factor
    I meant the individual builders of hollow-body guitars.
    ...like Stephen Marchione,Nico Moffa, Victor Baker etc.

  11. #10

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    What to expect of new arch-top models? Why Archtops?
    I guess, one of two things- something that replicates yesteryear and that sound you are chasing in your ear, or evolution to make the Hollow Box more relevant/compliant with current day performance conditions?

    I was wondering the other night about why archtops still exist and if they had reached the end of their evolutionary journey? It seemed as though Archtops had diverged down two separate paths- The acoustic solid top floating pickup path, vs the laminated top, heavy built set in pickup path.
    One with a focus on heavenly complex tone, but feedback prone at volume, leaving you with an instrument suitable for solo studio recording all miked up or in a 'quiet due/trio' intimate volume type arrangement.
    The other being compatible with the volumes of drums and a horn section without resorting to a solid body design.
    I see this path being the Laminated ES175 to trestle braced Gretsch 6120 to the solid spined ES335 (in very simplistic terms) but eventually leading to the Les Paul/ Telecaster/ Strat point.

    That said, there seems to be (I may be wrong here) a trend towards laminated thinner <3" body, 14-16 'bout full hollow by some smaller and not so smaller builders still hanging in there. The Eastman Romeo (despite being solid top) is heading down this path? Instruments bucking the weight of semi/solid and remaining with that hollow tonal character, yet feedback resistant still. Commings, Sadowsky, Ibanez & Eastman come to mind. Pushing the evolutionary limits?

    At the same time maintaining options with a strong tie back to the past.

    Either way, Do you find you just play a certain way and play certain styles with a particular style of Guitar in your hand?
    I cant imagine playing Jazz on a Dean, or Metal on a DÁquisto. Not to say you cant try...
    But if the tool helps you draw out inspiration for your style of choice, I say go for it. If a hollow body inspires you to play your jazz and push you to try harder, cool. Hollow body it is.

    Life is too short for bad wine. Enjoy what you can while you can!

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by EastwoodMike
    What to expect of new arch-top models? Why Archtops?
    I guess, one of two things- something that replicates yesteryear and that sound you are chasing in your ear, or evolution to make the Hollow Box more relevant/compliant with current day performance conditions?

    I was wondering the other night about why archtops still exist and if they had reached the end of their evolutionary journey? It seemed as though Archtops had diverged down two separate paths- The acoustic solid top floating pickup path, vs the laminated top, heavy built set in pickup path.
    One with a focus on heavenly complex tone, but feedback prone at volume, leaving you with an instrument suitable for solo studio recording all miked up or in a 'quiet due/trio' intimate volume type arrangement.
    The other being compatible with the volumes of drums and a horn section without resorting to a solid body design.
    I see this path being the Laminated ES175 to trestle braced Gretsch 6120 to the solid spined ES335 (in very simplistic terms) but eventually leading to the Les Paul/ Telecaster/ Strat point.

    That said, there seems to be (I may be wrong here) a trend towards laminated thinner <3" body, 14-16 'bout full hollow by some smaller and not so smaller builders still hanging in there. The Eastman Romeo (despite being solid top) is heading down this path? Instruments bucking the weight of semi/solid and remaining with that hollow tonal character, yet feedback resistant still. Commings, Sadowsky, Ibanez & Eastman come to mind. Pushing the evolutionary limits?

    At the same time maintaining options with a strong tie back to the past.

    Either way, Do you find you just play a certain way and play certain styles with a particular style of Guitar in your hand?
    I cant imagine playing Jazz on a Dean, or Metal on a DÁquisto. Not to say you cant try...
    But if the tool helps you draw out inspiration for your style of choice, I say go for it. If a hollow body inspires you to play your jazz and push you to try harder, cool. Hollow body it is.

    Life is too short for bad wine. Enjoy what you can while you can!
    Great post!
    Thanks

  13. #12

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    For example, I am interested in Pat Metheny.
    Once upon a time, he used to play a lot on the Gibson es-175d then he started changing guitars.
    Are the guitars he's currently using better ...?
    If so, why ... Pat's sound is still recognizable.

  14. #13

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    I think electric archtops are the natural evolution of acoustic archtops that were used in big bands. For me archtops are the most beautiful guitars and all my heroes played archtops. Not hard rationalism but it matters.

    I also wonder if having some acoustic feedback in terms of the guitars vibration against the body or even a slight acoustic sound even when amplified helps the player to feel more connected to what is being played.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by palindrome
    ... Very broadly speaking, it's not so much the "color of the sound" as the "nature of the tonal response"....
    If I understood what either of these phrases meant, I might agree. Or not.

  16. #15

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    ...because archtops are just so lovable!! Then again, it ain't what you play - it's how you play it:


    Why do jazz guitarists like to play hollow-body guitars?-9f288e51-c959-4f55-bdef-7ab2a4f0932c-jpeg



    For those of you who don't know where this picture was taken (and for anyone who doesn't have this album), find and listen to Sounds of Synanon. It was a residential rehab center in which Joe Pass kicked his addiction. They had several musicians in rehab, so they started a band and recorded an album on Pacific Jazz in 1962. That Jazzmaster was apparently donated to Synanon and Pass did not have his own guitar at the time - so he played what they had. His incredible playing on that album was the start of his ascent to well deserved fame. Here's the original album jacket on the left and the later version once Pass became better known. Notice the subtle change?





    The 175 for which he was famous was a gift from a Synanon benefactor months after this album was made. But I'd rather listen to JP on that Jazzmaster than almost anybody else on any other instrument. If you've never heard this album, check this out:

    Last edited by nevershouldhavesoldit; 10-13-2021 at 09:22 AM.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by kris
    not all of them...

  18. #17

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    I'm doing a 3-wk run of "42nd St" right now, and there are some sections where the guitar plays single sustained notes along with the winds, brass and percussion. The way it's written and orchestrated, the archtop almost sounds like bells. Very cool effect. It's a round ringing tone I don't think you can get out of a flattop or solid.

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
    ...because archtops are just so lovable!! Then again, it ain't what you play - it's how you play it:



    For those of you who don't know where this picture was taken (and for anyone who doesn't have this album), find and listen to Sounds of Synanon. It was a residential rehab center in which Joe Pass kicked his addiction. They had several musicians in rehab, so they started a band and recorded an album on Pacific Jazz in 1962. That Jazzmaster was apparently donated to Synanon and Pass did not have his own guitar at the time - so he played what they had. His incredible playing on that album was the start of his ascent to well deserved fame. Here's the original album jacket on the left and the later version once Pass became better known. Notice the subtle change?





    The 175 for which he was famous was a gift from a Synanon benefactor months after this album was made. But I'd rather listen to JP on that Jazzmaster than almost anybody else on any other instrument. If you've never heard this album, check this out:

    Thumbs up for demonstrating that JP is just as brilliant and recognizable on a Jazzmaster as a 175 and thumbs up to Downbeat for recognizing half a century ago that addiction is a disease and not a moral failing.

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by EastwoodMike

    Life is too short for bad wine. Enjoy what you can while you can!
    Truth. In all things. ("bad" meaning only that you do not enjoy it... regardless of music style, guitar model, etc)

    if someone wants to plays jazz on a nylon string flat-top because they love it, do it! (Willie Nelson certainly has a few jazzy licks in his arsenal!)

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by dconeill
    If I understood what either of these phrases meant, I might agree. Or not.
    Alternatively, you may want to agree with part A and disagree with part B. Or the other way around.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tricky Fish
    Image is a factor
    Unfortunately where I am, personal branding and being very image conscious and worrying what other people think of you rather than how you feel about you’re self seem more important. Also oddly, a lot of people seem to ‘listen’ with their eyes.
    Cheers!

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzism
    Unfortunately where I am, personal branding and being very image conscious and worrying what other people think of you rather than how you feel about you’re self seem more important. Also oddly, a lot of people seem to ‘listen’ with their eyes.
    Cheers!
    Reminds me of hearing a woman say "Look how loud they are!" as we were carrying in our gear. Still cracks me up 30 yrs later.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by dconeill
    If I understood what either of these phrases meant, I might agree. Or not.
    Sorry about the joke, and inappropriate analogy alert, but just to illustrate my point:

    Like the way in which the latency you may be struggling with in a digital recording situation will be resolved in the actual recording, thus being no longer audible to anyone, much of the difference in response we experience as players from a hollowbody versus a solidbody guitar strikes me as some kind of pseudo-latency in playing the hollowbody that has long resolved by the time it hits anyone else's ear.

    More or less.

  25. #24

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    Jazz guitarists wouldn't have given a flying F#aug7 about hollowbodies if jazz was invented in the 70's.

    The player experience is drastically different between solid body and archtop electrics. But when you record and compare them, they sound surprisingly close especially if they both have similar pickups.

    So it's mostly about the players' subjective perception. But why do jazz players generally perceive the archtop experience as preferable to solid bodies but not musicians in other styles (barring a few exceptions)? That I think is because the type of guitars used by the legends in different styles have a big influence on the musicians in these styles. It's just a historical necessity that jazz guitar hero's used archtops.

    Some may say musicians in other styles avoid hollowbodies because of the feed back issues. That's baloney. In most styles of music you can make hollowbodies work if you really like them. But hollowbodies just don't look the part and players gravitate towards guitars they adored growing up (in those styles).
    Last edited by Tal_175; 10-14-2021 at 05:53 AM.

  26. #25

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    Why do so many young straight-ahead jazz guitarists wear homburgs and waistcoats when they play their hollow-body guitars?