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Hi there,
I started getting into jazz recently. I have a Japanese hollow-body from early 70s equipped with Maxon Humbucker pickups. Compared to Gibson ‘57 Classic it has a lot of top end frequencies.
I have a couple of amps, one Fender Bronco bass amp that I can easily avoid the top end spike on high E and B strings, but I end up sacrificing some tone openness that I like.
The 2nd one is a Traynor DG30D which is a good solid state amp for clean. I have bass all the way to zero, mid range around 75 percent, and treble around 45 percent. It sounds ok, especially with the built-in digital reverb, perhaps a bit too transparent for my taste but the EQ knobs impact each other so if I drop treble any further I get a push in high mid in a frequency range that I don’t like (around 1khz) I like the push in 500 to 800 hz range (peak at 650 hz) and may be a bit of 1.5 to 3.5 kHz.
I use an EQ pedal which makes it a bit better but overall, I thought I may have to just buy a more suitable jazz amp.
I have an option to buy a Quilter micro 101 mini head but I heard it is a bright amp. It’s not in my town and I like to avoid surprises.
What lower budget range amp do you suggest that has a nice tone with smooth top end frequencies?
Also the Maxon Humbucker in this hollow body is bass heavy so I need to get something that allows very good control to have a tight bass and allows quite a bit of attenuation. I know Quilter 101 has a bass reduction profile on Tri.EQ selector, and treble reduction but I thought I check if there is any other alternative.
I have a good closed back cabinet that I can throw in a dark-ish tone speaker (12” Eminence Cannabis Rex) and couple with the Quilter head.
What do you think? The Quilter 101 head is the most affordable so far...
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10-10-2021 04:22 PM
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Before you go out and spend a couple of hundred bucks on a new amp you could get a 6 or 10 graphic EQ pedal (Boos/MXR make really nice ones) and hook this up
between your guitar and the amp you already have. You can also try out a different bridge on your guitar, check the value of the pots and caps, try some medium heavy flatwound strings. And work on your picking technique.....
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and/or swap out the pickup.
Originally Posted by gitman
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Thank you Gitman. I use flatwound 12-50 Thomastic Infeld. The guitar just came back from service with upgraded pots, capacitors, and bridge. I am an audio engineer and use 10 to 15 pedals including two EQs and some mild transparent overdrives as EQ, etc. I’ve been playing for last 17 years and my ears can pick the nuances. As you seem experienced you probably know the difference between EQ in a linear fashion versus dynamic behaviour of amp in shaping the tone which you can’t emulate with EQ. Lastly, I’m just asking a simple question and I like a straightforward answer with measurable outcomes. I am totally ok to spend more money for a suitable amp that deals with top end frequencies better. I have a 2500 dollar amp for my rock stuff with lots of mids but the British rock tone attitude (accentuated high-mid frequencies) so I want something relatively transparent, a bit mid-heavy, but with smooth top end. Thanks. Originally Posted by gitman
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Originally Posted by Arya44
Knowing your budget range would help. Your two statements above conflict and don’t tell us what you consider to be a “lower budget range amp”. A Quilter Aviator Cub is about $650 USD and would make most of us extremely happy with its jazz tones. A Fender Tonemaster Deluxe or Twin will cost close to $1000 USD, and both are wonderful jazz amps. Compared to a boutique tube amp, $1000 is a relative bargain and $650 is a steal. Without an amazing sale, you can’t get a serious jazz combo amp for less than the $300 USD many of us paid for our DV Mark Little Jazz amps when they’ve been discounted at Musicians’ Friend. The Boss Katana 50 is quite nice and sells for about $250 new in the US (I don’t recall seeing where you are). Originally Posted by Arya44
It’s hard to offer suggestions when you don’t give us enough information to understand what you want. Are you looking for an amplified woody tone or a more classic amplified electric sound? Clear highs? Thunk? Basic character of Tal Farlow, Grant Green, Wes, Barry Galbraith, Johnny Smith, other? There were a few excellent Japanese archtops in the early ‘70s, but there were also a lot of low end boxes that get the job done but are nothing to write home about. If yours is one of the latter, it’s possible that no amp will make it sound like you want it to sound. Better pickups might help make the sound more to your liking, but you need to be realistic about how good a guitar it is before putting expensive ones in it.
I’ve used small bass amps for jazz for decades, e.g. my Gallien Krueger MB150. I’ve also had an SWR 8” bass amp for many years and still love it - my son is currently using it, but I’d gladly take it on most gigs. I used to use it with my Ibanez AF207 in a 17 piece band. One of my two current gigging amps is a Trace Elliot Elf head with a RevSound 8” bass cabinet, and the other is a DV Mark Little Jazz (not a bass amp, but more than rich and deep enough for small to medium jazz gigs). Any of these gives me the jazzy amplified archtop tonal range that I like.
Your Bronco bass amp is not bad at all for an electric laminated archtop tone. It probably won’t bring out the woody upper mids and highs of an amplified carved top instrument with a floater, but it should produce a pretty good classic jazz tone with a laminated archtop with set pickups. It should make your guitar sound as good as it can sound, if the guitar is like most lower to mid level plywood archtops.
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Thanks for the thorough feedback.
I meant I’m ok to spend a few hundred dollars rather than $200 or below.
I like if it allows at least some transparency to get through while being able to control the highs. I don’t want thunk although I like woody tone so if one comes with the other I guess I need to compromise. Generally I like bass to be really controlled and not dominant. My objective is dominant low-mid frequencies (warmth without boominess) and added air and transparency (very high frequencies around 4.5k and above). I get quite a high level of bass and I tried the same amp setup with my Godin 5th Ave P90 and the bass was just too much even when I have bass turned all the way off. So it may be just the way hollow-body behaves. Quilter 101 mini head used here is below 300 Canadian dollars (about 220 USD). How do you compare it with Quilter Aviator cub model that you mentioned? Do you think I get that mix of transparency and smooth high end? I can also spend $400 for a used Quilter 101R that not only has reverb which I need (otherwise I should use my pedal through the loop) but also continuously adjustable high, mid, low instead of tri-EQ that only gives 3 choices. BTW, the luthier that spruced up the guitar complimented the woody tone and said it is a very good build (by means of the body and neck). It is a laminated top though. Thanks again.Last edited by Arya44; 10-10-2021 at 10:46 PM.
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You should consider the Quilter Superblock US too. It's very affordable (280€ here in Europe), it's very loud for a 25W and sounds really nice.
I'm considering to sell my 101 Reverb, because the Superblock just sounds better.
Cheers!
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Had a 101 Mini for a while.
I liked it better than 101 Reverb due to its eq scheme (I may be in a minority here) and the fact that it had Full Q/Jazz (flatter eq). 101R sounded like it tried too hard to emulate the BF Fender sound with the (imo) critical 400-700hz. range scooped out too much.
Also, the Quilter doesn't reproduce the “sparkly/shimmering” 4.5-5.5k “presence” range as nicely as some good old tube circuits for some reason.
But ultimately I found the inherent BF-style voice of the 101 too “country” for my taste with the aforementioned low-mid scoop, combined with 1-1.6k hump. Guess that’s how Leo F (and Pat Q) heard/hears things.
I also find many Emminence drivers exhibit this type of upper-mid emphasis to varying degrees. C Rex, for example has that characteristics though its smooth highs and generally “smokey/dark” sound. This becomes more apparent when a/b’d with drivers with either flatter frequency response (e.g. Jensen Tornado 100) or fuller low-mids (e.g. a big magnet Celestion).
CRex paired with Quilter 101 Mini, I found the “unbalanced” frequency responses in the (imo) critical jazz guitar mid-ranges were “exacerbated”, despite many positive and uniquely attractive characteristics of the two great pieces of equipment.
If your particular guitar and pickup are already set up optimally according to your preferences, and you want flatter frequency responses than the ubiquitous BF-style voicing from your amp, 101 might not be your best choice.
As you may already be well aware as a sound engineer, the whole combination is an ensemble of each imperfect equipment in the signal chain.
If you are looking for fuller low-mids with smooth (i.e., not over-emphasized) highs in a relatively low cost amp, I’d look at the DV Mark 50 Jazz head. It’s not necessarily “better” than the Quilter in terms of circuit design/build quality, I think you might find the eq controls designed to manipulate the frequencies to your liking.
However, you might find the dynamic response not as “tube-like” for the lack of better descriptions, as the Quilter’s.
Just my 2 pennies (or 2.6 Canadian pennies).
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I did not read everything but what I did read suggested a Fender deluxe reverb to me. Since you mentioned about $2500, and I assume you do more then Jazz, and you have a lot of pedals, and you are an engineer ... a Fender DR seems like a good fit...
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Originally Posted by Arya44
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I'd suggest a Yamaha series 1 G50 or G100. 4 band eq lets you bring the treble down and still dial in the amount of bright you want for shimmer etc... If not worn out the stock speakers are great.
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the old orange Roland Cubes have a jazzy sound, they can be very trebly but you can tame it without a problem, full & rich in harmonics, very clear transparent sound, very dynamic, the eq is great, fx loop & spring reverb tank
you can get them fairly cheap
a polytone has a jazz sound right out of its box, they‘re priced under ur budget too like the cube,
the polytone has a more mellow deep sound where the cube is more aggressive and „alive?“
polytone mini brute ii = 12“
polytone mini brute iv = 15“
the 12“ is more guitar but the 15“ sure sounds huge
heres a good comparison someone made
both 12“
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i tend to put the treble on 4 and mids + bass at 6.5 for a jazzy sound on almost every amp, sometimes a tad bit more mids than bass
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Thanks a lot for all the suggestions. I will definitely look into Polytone and Roland orange Cube.
I think I will be happier with a 10 or max 12 inch speaker. It fills up the room without too much bass that I’m trying to avoid.
I heard Henriksen and it sounds great but it’s too pricey for me (used 800 Canadian dollars plus shipping!!). There are also some low watt tube amps out there but don’t know which ones give me good control on brightness and low-mid frequency boost while keeping the bass down. There is an affordable used VHT Special 6 tube amp that only has a tone knob but I guess if I use my EQ pedal, I could shape the tone externally. Do you think I can meet my tone objectives as per above?
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you can def meet ur expectations with some eq and those amps, any amp really (expect maybe brittish tube amps)
lower the tone knob on your guitar a lil bit to cut off the highs thats the first thing i would recommend, especially if youre pickups are trebly by itself, i like to put it at 70-90%
/and the volume pot maybe 80-90% if the pickups are hot
and you cant go wrong with either of those two amps
i would say though that polytone is def more jazz & rnb territory
the older roland cubes are so versatile you can play any style with them really
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a big hollow body guitar will have bass anyway and will not sound as clear as a smaller hollow body, so maybe you‘re better of with an 8“ - 10“ speaker accoustic amp or an roland amp bc their so transparent
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I have only option for newer Roland Cube (30X, 40X, 60X or COSM models which are slightly older but not as old as orange body Cubes that were made in Japan). Are the X or XL series good for jazz? Do they offer good bass control, warmth / low-mid range frequency dominance while allowing to cut back on spiky highs? Originally Posted by maxiim
Last edited by Arya44; 10-12-2021 at 01:31 PM.
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How loud an amp are you looking for? If this is just for at-home use that's one set of recommendations; if it's for gigging with a loud drummer that's another. Given what you're saying about wanting to tame the bass from your Godin (a guitar I have a lot of experience with), I'd lean toward recommending an 8" or 10" speaker. If you don't need much clean volume, that VHT would probably sound pretty good, or maybe one of the Monoprice tube amps (which get pretty good reviews), such as this one. Originally Posted by Arya44
My choice for a small, affordable, moderately gig-able amp is a Fender Champion 20. I do a lot of jams sessions and gigs in small places where I don't need much volume, and it can hang in those situations well. I had a Godin Kinpin for a while and it sounded quite good through the C20. I also have a Princeton Reverb, which is a significant step up in volume and tone quality. My Kingpin sounded great through that (as does every other guitar), but the tone controls might not be flexible enough for you, given that you seem to be complaining about the scooped character of your current amp. It would also help to have an example of a player/recording that gets closest to what you're looking for.
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Well my first thought is to continue experimenting with the amp(s) that you already have, looking at EQ, adjusting pickup height, etc. before spending any money. Any amp that's got reasonable volume while still sounding clean is usable for jazz.
I have played many gigs with a Roland Cube 60 COSM and have got perfectly fine, usable jazz tones out of it. Is it quite as warm and creamy as my tweed Deluxe 5E3 clone? No, but on the bandstand once the other instruments are playing you can't hear that difference anyway. And if some tune calls for a fusion type tone or something like that, the Cube 60 is more versatile. And dead reliable. 4 band EQ, clean channel and several modeled amps, compact size, manageable weight. Readily found for $200 or so used.
On the more expensive end of things, a guy that I play with weekly bought a Tone Master Deluxe Reverb and holy cow is that nice. 20 something pounds, classic looks, stupidly easy to get really nice jazz tones with fat round trebles, solid bass and the best Fendery digital reverb I've ever heard. Made my Ibanez GB10 sound fan-effin'-tastic last night. Good thing I already have a bunch of amps I really like!
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