The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stringswinger
    Pat Martino
    Yeah he’s great.

    Benson’s rhythmic vocab is much more varied though; it’s like comparing Parker to Dexter. Both are wonderful, but… different?

    Benson plays all kinds of rhythm with amazing time and feel, and Pat locks into the 8th note pocket and uses that as the basis… no ones done it better than Pat, but that’s a much more common strategy for guitarists. Even quite old school players like Cecil Alexander who sound more PM to me than Benson.

    You can lock into the mechanics of the guitar and while it’s not to be sniffed at technically I feel that you can make that deep mechanical connection to the groove and that helps a lot… it’s like rhythm playing with single notes…

    Benson, of course, doesn’t do this… he uses a highly optimised right hand technique that’s built for speed (and therefore could easily rush in other hands), subdivides in all sort of ways, plays as funky as anything, and nails it all. It’s quite unlike any of the other guitar players I have transcribed so far.

    He’s not the only to have that accuracy and control dialled in; but while the gypsy guys have the technique and precision to emulate him, do they have the funk? I’ll need to listen to more archtop Birelli I guess!

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

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    Benson tells of arriving in Manhattan, ready to show everybody what's what, and is treated immediately to Pat Martino playing with Willis Jackson, and quickly wonders if he shouldn't go home and practice.

  4. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by st.bede
    Here is a theory. Music is heard differently between trained musicians (be it formal or informal) and people who have not spent years focusing their mind and hearing on the nuances of sound, and the organizing of sound.

    Art (what ever form) is the ability to express what it means to be human.

    That expression becomes a mirror for people to see what it is to be human.

    In as much as that mirror allows for humans to become healthier it can be judges as powerful. (That is a tricky premise. We have to deals with ideas of value and utility).

    What is heard as a limiting use of musical ideas in some of Benson’s work by musicians, might be exactly what heals the most people. (I use the word heals with its’ connotations not denotations. Also I use that word very open to a person’s own understanding if what healing looks like).

    (Here is a huge leap). So maybe Benson’s work is more important then that of someone like Coltrane.

    However, I would not argue that. First, because of the individuality of any healing process. It would be like saying medicine x is the only one needed because it works for more people, yet does not work for some. Of course there is no reason to throw away medicine y because only a few are not helped by medicine x. If you think about that, it generates a whole bunch of other premises, that could be applied.

    I could go on and on, with thoughts around aesthetics. The funny thing is that I have read that the study of aesthetics, is no longer seen as important in philosophy. Apparently, I disagree.
    I don't disagree with you, but most of Coltrane is IMO extremely accessible. I think that's what we're getting at, right? Accessibility vs highly complex and esoteric?

    Not only has Benson healed a lot of people, I guarantee a lot of babies have been created listening to Benson albums, and that has to count for something, right?

  5. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    Yeah he’s great.

    Benson’s rhythmic vocab is much more varied though; it’s like comparing Parker to Dexter. Both are wonderful, but… different?

    Benson plays all kinds of rhythm with amazing time and feel, and Pat locks into the 8th note pocket and uses that as the basis… no ones done it better than Pat, but that’s a much more common strategy for guitarists. Even quite old school players like Cecil Alexander who sound more PM to me than Benson.

    You can lock into the mechanics of the guitar and while it’s not to be sniffed at technically I feel that you can make that deep mechanical connection to the groove and that helps a lot… it’s like rhythm playing with single notes…

    Benson, of course, doesn’t do this… he uses a highly optimised right hand technique that’s built for speed (and therefore could easily rush in other hands), subdivides in all sort of ways, plays as funky as anything, and nails it all. It’s quite unlike any of the other guitar players I have transcribed so far.

    He’s not the only to have that accuracy and control dialled in; but while the gypsy guys have the technique and precision to emulate him, do they have the funk? I’ll need to listen to more archtop Birelli I guess!
    He also plays a lot with this thumb and is just as rhythmically tight with that. Plus, he's that tight when he scats sings along with his playing. Inconceivable! (as Vizzini would say).

  6. #30

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    I've thought about this for over a decade. So not too long for a jazzer but I keep coming back to the feeling that George Benson is likely the greatest guitarist of all time. That includes Django, Wes, Joe Pass, etc..

    George has it all.

    That doesn't mean he's recorded the best ever solo. That goes (imo) to Pat Martino on 'Just Friends'.
    It doesn't mean he's a more rounded player like Julian Lage or Lenny Breau.

    But for sheer taste, technique and wow factor, he can't be beat. Listening to him play with Herbie Hancock, you can hear Benson is just far more interesting. Billies Bounce is a perfect example. Benson's licks are outrageously good and tasty. Herbie by comparison sounds rather uninteresting. His lines sound clinical and it reminded me of the piano players who played with Wes. They all sound square and a bit jingly jangly.

    George is the boss guitar.

    Just my opinion.

  7. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzkritter
    Thanks for posting this!!! Its great, and To my ear it gives proof to the old adage the sounds in the players fingers. Probably deep down in the soul too.
    Having been around then i loved the bell bottom suit on GB, an original Fender electric piano, not sure why the drummer need 1,480 pieces of stuff))), the floor length kaftan on the back up guitarist and of course his wawa pedal. Notice the pre Jaco bass technique and sound.
    But GB hasn’t lost a step!!!!


    jk
    I may have missed something, but I didn't see or hear a backup guitarist in the video. Also, questioning Billy Cobham on his equipment choices is brave.

  8. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    While not really I glue fed by GB, I recently spent time transcribing a lot of Benson licks (on Breezin’ era stuff) alongside some of other well known players for a website, which naturally meant a lot of listening to him at half speed

    good god does this man have amazing time. Not a controversial take, or course; but it’s not simply his innate time feel and sense of groove which is of course killer but also the sheer precision and lack of ‘lag’ in his articulation. He plays rhythms so exactly it’s scary. If there’s another guitar player who can rival him on this I can’t of them.
    For rhythmic precision, I'd say Grant Green is up there. But yeah, when Benson is on, there's not many guys who have that sort of complete package.

  9. #33

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    Last night at rehearsal the band I've been recruited into (playing mostly light jazz, not bebop in other words, and a lot of R&B) presented me with the task of learning to play "Affirmation" like GB. Yeah, that shouldn't be too hard…

    I spent some time going through the tune today. It's interesting that the fingerings are all very straightforward, nothing too terribly hard to grab, but it's the time and the articulation that you have to get right or it sounds like ass. GB gets it right, pretty much every time.


    One of the things that I've heard about George is in interviews he is typically quite positive about other players. At the beginning of the "Talmadge Farlow" movie there's a short interview with him where he points out "nobody cuts Tal Farlow." George probably could, but his respect for other musicians is obvious. I have heard a quote attributed to him a number of times but I've never been able to find any source documentation verifying it: "I can do what you do, but you can't do what I do." Even if he never said it it's probably true.

  10. #34

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    Yep you are what you say. GB has a healthy and seemingly honest personality and has always spoken highly of Tal.

    Not quite like that other guy who told an interviewer that Tal was just plain sloppy. Sorry Wes you’re a lesser god for that. Tal never had anything but respect for Wes. ‘Man dig that thumb’.

    (That book is still packed, so if youre upset please PM me and when we cut open the Pod ill dig.)

  11. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by brad4d8
    I remember around the time this was made, an interview in Rolling Stone in which he was asked to respond to the fan/critic accusation that he had sold out. His response was alon the lines that he liked it, his family liked it, and his Mercedes dealer liked it.
    At least he 'sold out' while it was still possible. What guitarist could 'sell out' to popular music today? I think the only place to hear 'easy listening' guitar music is on a vintage 70s streaming channel...one would have to go back in time

  12. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzkritter
    Yep you are what you say. GB has a healthy and seemingly honest personality and has always spoken highly of Tal.

    Not quite like that other guy who told an interviewer that Tal was just plain sloppy. Sorry Wes you’re a lesser god for that. Tal never had anything but respect for Wes. ‘Man dig that thumb’.

    (That book is still packed, so if youre upset please PM me and when we cut open the Pod ill dig.)
    Gosh, so if you don't like hearing that "Tal was sloppy" from Wes, then you probably won't like hearing it from me. So I won't say it....

  13. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by princeplanet
    Gosh, so if you don't like hearing that "Tal was sloppy" from Wes, then you probably won't like hearing it from me. So I won't say it....
    Maybe after his return but not in the 50s
    This is an excerpt from an old Wes interview
    "And Tal Farlow. Tal strikes me as different altogether. He doesn’t have as much feeling as Barney Kessel, but he’s got more drive in his playing, and his technique along with that drive is pretty exciting. He makes it exciting. He’s got a better conception of modern chords than the average guitar player.

  14. #38

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    Well little prince, As soon as you have the number of albums out Tal did, and are internationally known and valued more than in your own country, you go right ahead and cut the dead to pieces. Then we could lump you with other famous musicians that crap on other famous musicians greats. In the mean time you do not, out of decency, run down a musician generally considered by everyone from GB to Jimmy Page as a great influence.
    i was a friend and a student. If you have inside knowledge on his sloppyness, let me know. If you sat hearing him live in NJ/NYC 84-96, let me know how sloppy his chord melody work was then. But me, no. Told in confidence and so it shall stay.

  15. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Sound
    Here he is just one year before his "mating" with Ibanez.

    Is it just me or is that Chick Corea on keys in this clip? Aging eyes and a small phone screen sure can make it hard to tell sometimes. Speaking of George Benson....

    Sent from my LE2127 using Tapatalk

  16. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    While not really I glue fed by GB, I recently spent time transcribing a lot of Benson licks (on Breezin’ era stuff) alongside some of other well known players for a website, which naturally meant a lot of listening to him at half speed

    good god does this man have amazing time. Not a controversial take, or course; but it’s not simply his innate time feel and sense of groove which is of course killer but also the sheer precision and lack of ‘lag’ in his articulation. He plays rhythms so exactly it’s scary. If there’s another guitar player who can rival him on this I can’t of them.
    Don’t sleep on Peter Farrell, a Benson protege. His time is ridiculous. I enjoy just listening to him play practice lines along with his own tapping foot. He’s that good.

  17. #41

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    Tal played in my home town, Dundee, Scotland, to an audience of twelve.

    George was here a couple of years ago, decades after his hits, and played to 2,500.

    Both were/are geniuses of the guitar, great musicians. I certainly cannot say one was better or worse than the other. One had a hit album, the other didn’t. Selling out means selling records. Nothing wrong with that.

    No one had this problem with Miles.

  18. #42

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    He found money beyond the fifth fret, yet retained the respect of his peers.

  19. #43

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    put a 175 in my hands and georges transcription reckon i could do a good job sigh.....

  20. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by citizenk74
    In the OP clip, is GB playing Johnny Smith?
    Yes, I meant this thread to be about the guitars, not the musician. He used the Johnny Smith during the "Breezin" period. The huge success of that record most likely was the reason for Ibanez courting his endorsement within the following year.

    Incidently, part of his contract is that he is not to be seen publicly playing another brand. One time he was trying out someone else's guitar in an informal private setting, and someone took a picture, and it ended up in a magazine. And George got in a shitload of trouble with Ibanez.


  21. #45
    Here he is early on with an Ibanez JS copy.

    Last edited by Woody Sound; 09-30-2021 at 10:37 AM.

  22. #46

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    I never got to see Tal in person; looking at various videos and such made later in his life, it strikes me that he was continuing to try to advance his playing rather than sticking with what he did best 30 years earlier. If you're pushing your technique, your conception, you're going to sound kind of sloppy at times because it ain't perfect out there on the growing edge. I gave to give Tal a lot of credit for having the courage to do that. Seems like he was maybe not wasting his time in Seabright NJ, musically speaking.

    Of course, this thread is about George rather than Tal. Looking at videos of GB across the breath of his career, I find a little hard to tell where his musical conception actually ends. He seems to be able to play anything except classical music. And maybe he can even do that. He seems to have humongous ears.

  23. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Sound
    Yes, I meant this thread to be about the guitars, not the musician. He used the Johnny Smith during the "Breezin" period. The huge success of that record most likely was the reason for Ibanez courting his endorsement within the following year.
    My understanding is that a lot of his recorded output even after the Ibanez endorsement is played on the Gibson Johnny Smith, although I don't know if that's verified.

    I have a 1981 GB10 that I've owned since it was five years old. My impression of that guitar is that it was intended to approximate the Johnny Smith sound in a smaller, more feedback resistant and more portable package. I find it to be an extremely well designed guitar with a broad range of tones available with a little knob twiddling. The hotness of the pickups makes it possible to utilize the tonal effects of rolling off the volume knob to get a warm, fat sound. Or, if one wants, one can get that bright cutting tone that George seems to like. It's easy to get in and out of a gig due to the small size, is very comfortable to play standing on stage in limited space, and as everybody always comments has a great neck. And for practicing on the couch without an amplifier, the acoustic tone is serviceable.

  24. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by ronjazz
    Benson tells of arriving in Manhattan, ready to show everybody what's what, and is treated immediately to Pat Martino playing with Willis Jackson, and quickly wonders if he shouldn't go home and practice.
    Yup.


  25. #49

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    I bought this album in 1966 at adept store in Jackson Mich. At the time I was teaching guitar in a local music store. The other teacher was an astonding guitarist name of Jerry Glassel. He played Clockwise note for note after hearing it once ' then wrote it out for me straight thru... Never seen or heard any thing like this.before or since. Mickmac..

  26. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by smallie_stalker
    Is it just me or is that Chick Corea on keys in this clip? Aging eyes and a small phone screen sure can make it hard to tell sometimes. Speaking of George Benson....

    Sent from my LE2127 using Tapatalk
    Yes, that's him, and Billy Cobham on drums. I don't recognise the bass player. It must have been a Downbeat poll winners band. Too bad they didn't cut a record, like...