Vintage Fender Princeton Amp Tutorial

[DMgolf66]

Was wondering if some of you with experience could give a brief tutorial on the Princeton amp history in terms of changes thru the years and some of your favorite years for use as a Jazz/archtop amp.

Judging from what i see for sale its the typical "the older, the more expensive", but that doesnt mean much.

Thanks, folks!

[raymoan]

[Stringswinger]

I have had three vintage Princeton's, a 1963 Brownface, a 1964 Blackface and a 1979 Silverface. None had reverb.

The Brownface did not have enough clean headroom for jazz and the Silverface was too heavy due to it's MDF cabinet (and the tone was not as sweet as the Blackface with it's pine cabinet) so the Blackface is the one that I kept. I also found that the stock speakers in all three could not handle the bass response of a fat hollowbody, so speaker upgrades were necessary.

I also tried a 65 Princeton Reverb reissue that never sounded as good to me as the vintage examples, even after several mods.

A vintage Blackface Princeton is a great jazz amp for practice, studio use or small room gigs,

[Gitfiddler]

Was wondering if some of you with experience could give a brief tutorial on the Princeton amp history in terms of changes thru the years and some of your favorite years for use as a Jazz/archtop amp.

Judging from what i see for sale its the typical "the older, the more expensive", but that doesn't mean much.

Thanks, folks!

I've owned every version of Princeton amp over the years and love each for what they are. Any one of them are great for jazz. Prices are rising steadily for all Princetons. Maybe folks are realizing how great they are.

Here's are a few excellent articles about Fender Princeton Reverb amps that might help you.

BF/SF Princeton Reverb | fenderguru.com

This article also discusses the history of the Princeton Reverb amp and includes my personal favorite, the Non-Reverb Princeton amp. This amp is great for jazz since it has more clean headroom. Yes, if you need reverb you'll need a pedal.

The History of the Fender Princeton Part III: The Blackface and Silverface Years 1964-1981 — Carl's Custom Amps

Finally, you didn't ask about the '80's Rivera/Jahn-era Fender Princeton Reverb II amp, but it is a great jazz/rock/blues amp that is 20-22 watts of clean Fender tone. Some consider this amp to be a downsized, customized Deluxe Reverb or a Fender-meets-Boogie amp due to its overdrive and expanded tone stack.

Fender Princeton Reverb II

http://www.stratopastor.org.uk/strat.../PRII_hub.html

Hope this helps.

[Tal_175]

Also worth checking out is the customshop Princeton's (handwired to '64 specs). They were released a couple of years ago. I was looking for a vintage blackface Princeton and went with one of these customshop models instead. They are about the same price as the original 64's but you know what you're getting.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Also worth checking out is the customshop Princeton's (handwired to '64 specs). They were released a couple of years ago. I was looking for a vintage blackface Princeton and went with one of these customshop models instead. They are about the same price as the original 64's but you know what you're getting.

Ummmm - maybe. We bought one about 18 months go for the club in which I'm the house band leader (the owner's an optimist and got a great deal on it from a local shop). It's a great low volume jazz amp with enough oomph for my 7 strings. But........

Since we've been back in business (for about the last 6 months - it sat unused before that), it's been intermittently dropping out. And when the volume goes down, it breaks up. It was just an occasional annoyance until 2 weeks ago, when it dropped out almost entirely while in use by a touring act I was backing during her show (Kara Grainger, a wonderful guitarist / singer / songwriter now transplanted from her native Sydney to Nashville). So I Googled it and found multiple reports of problems with custom shop Fender amps. There are reports of volume instability from cold solder joints, hum / hiss / other noise that makes it unusable on stage, and problems with reverb not working or working intermittently. Several were returned for replacements or other products. Here are some quotes:

"yes I've had 'out-of-the-box' issues with a new (high priced) Fender amp. When I unboxed my...Fender Custom 64 Deluxe Reverb Handwired ($2,499) the reverb didn't work. Took it back to the retailer who ordered a replacement."

"Yesterday I bought a new Fender 64 Princeton Reverb/Amp, paid full retail ($2299) and it was dead right out of the box."

I've not been able to find any roundup or summary of problems with this line, but there are certainly enough anecdotal issues to give me pause when considering another one. List on a custom shop Princeton Reverb is now $2500 if I read the web correctly, and there are some wonderful boutique amps for that amount or less. I do love the Princeton when it's behaving. But when it leaves you at the side of the road, a Fender amplifier is a lot harder to love than an Alfa Romeo.

[Hammertone]

A Princeton Reverb is a lovely, small footprint, relatively light amp. All it needs, IMO, is a 12" speaker and, say, 35 watts. Wait...I have one of those. And it's for sale!

[citizenk74]

The Princeton, whether equipped with reverb or not, occupies the sweet spot in terms of size, weight, and output (not to mention tone), that make it an ideal personal monitor (my preference) and tone producer - mic'ed and sent to FOH or just pointed at the ceiling and rippin' it up, you just can't beat a Princeton. I am presently Princetonless, and worry about that, but: The last time I had one, I basically sold most of my other gear (and ended up getting royally ripped off in the deal) and just gigged with the little powerhouse with the sweet reverb. Guitar in one hand, amp in the other, you want me to sing? Give me a mike. Free-lance nirvana, while it lasted.

Personally, I think they should call it The Prince Tone, but that's me.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

it's been intermittently dropping out. And when the volume goes down, it breaks up. It was just an occasional annoyance until 2 weeks ago, when it dropped out almost entirely while in use by a touring act I was backing during her show

UPDATE: At our Sunday show, we confirmed that the volume loss and distortion are now consistent. Pulling and reinserting the tubes to clean the pins didn’t help. With no visual clue to the cause (tubes all properly lit, no residue or bright blue glow inside etc), no extraneous noise when tapping tubes, and seemingly tight tube pin contacts, we’ll swap in a new set at our Thursday night show. If that doesn’t fix it, and a look inside doesn’t reveal a suspicious solder joint (dull instead of shiny, incomplete, loose etc), it’s back to the dealer’s tech for a proper check. I’m pretty sure it’s a bit over 2 years since purchase, and if so there’s no warranty coverage left. We’ll check the receipt. Given their extreme confidence in these, it would have been appropriate for Fender to add an extra year or more to warranty coverage for these special, hand built, expensive, highly touted amps.

I’ll report back Friday.

[chp]

I recently “discovered” the blackface Non-Reverb models of Fender amps from the mid 1960’s, and I’ve gotta say they are total sleepers!

A few years ago I picked up a Deluxe Non Reverb from 1965…..it was cheap and is a great amp. Maybe someone more technical than me can explain more, but the lack of reverb gives it a more robust sound, that stays clean further up the dial than the reverb models. I just love it. There is also a mid 1960’s Princeton Non Reverb….I would love to try one, as I’ve heard it’s the same way (more clean headroom than the reverb version). And they are relatively cheap compared to the Princeton Reverb of the same era.

Plus, the old Fenders will run forever. They are built like tanks, sturdy, and reliable. Plus there are a lot of guys everywhere who can competently service them

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

Update: I used the Princeton tonight for my jazz trio show. The club owner retubed it, and it was fine. I’m not a big fan of throwing parts and money at a malfunctioning device without trying to find the problem first - but he is, and he bought the amp. So he / we lucked out. Before spending a cent, I’d have pulled all the tubes again, thoroughly cleaned the pins and sockets, opened the chassis to inspect the solder joints, and checked the voltages at the test points.

There are touring acts booked tomorrow and Saturday, so we’ll know if it was just a tube by the time we start our Sunday blues show. I’d keep my fingers crossed, but that sure makes playing harder

[Tal_175]

If it was fine after retubing, then it seems to me that the problem was a faulty tube. Pretty much every time I bought a brand new Fender tube amp, there was a tube failure as soon as the warranty period was over.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

If it was fine after retubing, then it seems to me that the problem was a faulty tube. Pretty much every time I bought a brand new Fender tube amp, there was a tube failure as soon as the warranty period was over.

If it remains fine now, that’s clearly the case. But I’m waiting to see if the problem comes back before accepting that it was that simple. This amp sat unused for well over a year of that warranty period because the club was closed due to Covid.

I wish he would have done a more thorough check first - we don’t even know which tube it was, if it was just a tube. Losing volume is usually because of a power tube failure, but occasionally it’s the phase inverter. And normal power tubes can fail prematurely because of problems elsewhere, eg improper bias. I was only able to do a quick visual check on stage, tap the tubes gently, and pull/replace the tubes while they were cold before the next show. But unless a bad power tube is cherry red or has a purple haze around one element or a white residue on the inside of the top, there’s nothing to see.

There’s no work space at the club for safely pulling the chassis and checking voltages.So let’s hope there’s not another underlying problem that will either take out a fresh tube or require proper repair (eg cold solder joint). Hope is a terrible plan.