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Hello everybody. I am reading a lot in this forum and I enjoy you all. It´s a nice forum. Until now I never registered. But finally I did. So this is my 1st post.
I need some advice from some of you who have experience with the following problem. I am thankful for all of your suggestions.
I am not content with the sound that I hear in the place where I sit / stand while playing the guitar. So I am looking for a enhencement.
I mostly play Jazz in small settings. The louder the band is the less the problem is. I don´t need a P.A. most of the time. On stage I prefer my own amp over monitors.
My favourite setting is a mix of the acoustic sound of an archtop with the amplified sound. I almost always play in settings with a piano player or some wind or brass instruments,
double bass and a drummer who can play softly. Very often I play without drummers.
My equipment is quite good and I don´t want to replace it. My guitars and amps are fine. It is more a problem of the room (if it´s a gig indoors, outdoors (no room, I know), rehearsal
or just playing at home). The strange thing is that I dislike my own sound that I can hear while I am playing but when I record myself (with small mobile recorder, on a video or smartphone)
it sounds much better. It is hard to describe. But my goal is to hear myself as on the recording. It has a lot to do with the style of the tune. In addition it has a lot to do with the fellow musicians and
it depends on the volume as well. But as I said the recordings sound good.
It is a bit hard to describe. My idea is to get a deeflexx. Does anybody have experience with it? I hope this one will work like a diffuser.
My other thought is to get an additional external speaker box. I could set it up in a way that there are more sweetspots. Maybe two speakers on 50% sound better than one speaker on 100%. I hope
you understand what I mean. If I use two different amps at the same time it get decent results. But again it depends on the volume. I think it is harder to control two different amps and I am content with the one I use mostly. So my thought is to get a second one of that one.
I know it is a long text. But maybe somebody understands my problem. It has an impact on my playing. I am able to lose myself much more in my own playing when I like my own sound.
I mean I can play without hearing myself. This is not a problem. But I got a bit addicted to sound in the last span of time.
To sum it up:
1. deeflexx
2. external speaker
3. additional amp
what would you do?
Thank you all
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09-19-2021 12:29 PM
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I never heard of Deeflexx, but it looks interesting.
I do have experience with an extra cabinet though. Last summer I played a week with a 11-piece band including 7 horns. I mostly used my Little Jazz for that. Being a closed back (almost) 8" combo amp, it has a very focussed sound and it matters a lot where you are relative to the speaker. I brought an extra 2x8 cabinet with me to make sure I could hear myself better. It does work, however, I pointed the cabinet to the vocalist and used the combo for myself as a monitor. I thought it was better for the band that the singer could hear me than that I would get the ideal tone myself.
The singer thanked me and said he never met a guitar player that not only played not too loud, but also brought a monitor for the singer...
Does your amp have a speaker out?
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Lieber Herr, could you be more specific about the rig you are using? Seems you are unhappy with the projection as you hear it on the stage, rather than the timbre of your speaker which is ok on recordings. Closed-back 1X12 and, especially, 1X15 cabs are very directional. While beaming or treble spike is less of a problem in the kind of playing situations you describe, broader projection is always welcome. Deeflexx is a modern take on angled plexiglass "plows" used by insanely loud rock bands of yesteryear. It no doubt spreads your sound more evenly for the audience. What it does for you as the player, I don't know. Have you considered a small personal monitor beaming towards you? Alternatively, an upward-firing cab behind the band makes you more audible for yourself and the rest of the band, provided there's a ceiling to reflect the sound. Whether a second speaker aimed at the audience improves your situation depends on its positioning and the venue's acoustic properties.
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Thank you for your reply.
Yes have a speaker out and it also has a balanced D.I. XLR output (behind the preamp). Moreover I use a volume pedal which can split the guitar into A and B.
I also have an monitor in my basement and in total I have about 5 amps that are working. I just don´t want to carry all that stuff.
Maybe I was sitting for too long at home as we had a lot of covid restrictons and there were no concerts for almost 18 months (for me). I got used to the sound in my
living room. I can play my guitar without amplification there. Maybe I got used to its sound too much. Same with teaching. I did that a lot during the last months and
I don´t have any kids that want to play the electric guitar anymore. So I sat around with a classical guitar only.
Now concerts started again and the situation is a bit crazy. I got gigs in locations that are not the typical places for concerts. I think the venues don´t sound really good.
Don´t get me wrong, I am very thankful that I can play again. I also changed my bass player since the old one moved away. It´s not only the person. It´s also a change from double bass to fretless 6 string electric bass. I think I will order the deeflexx as I can send it back within a certain span of time. Thank´s for your hint with the singer. Maybe this is a good idea to bring an external speaker.
If they love you for that you did the right thing. I let you know how the deeflexx works. Maybe this is perfect because it only weights a bit over 1 kilogramm.
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Hello Gitterburg, thank you.
My equipment:
It´s mostly an 17" archtop with a silid spruce top which is made for amplified playing. The top is a bit heavier. But comping can be done without amp.
The other guitar is a thin hollowbody with a ceder top and a sustain block.
I use both with a princeton reverb 65 clone with a 12" jensen speaker that was modded with this balanced out xlr output.
My 2nd and t3rd amps are a polytone minibrute and a jmi ac15 with a blue speaker.
The equipment is ok. You are right. Its the setting on stage.
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Simple solution: use a 10" speaker.
12+" speakers create unpleasant sound beams. 10" speakers disperse sound more evenly in the room.
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Your amps are all VERY different in how they spread the sound around. The Princeton has an open back so you get reflected sounds from the surfaces (walls , furniture) behind the cab. The Polytone is a closed box, able to put out higher sound pressure and much more bass and it's sound is much more directional.
My suggestions : place ANY amp you use on a stool or a crate , not exactly behind you but more to the side, left or right is not important. You'll hear yourself better, you can lower the volume and with the amp above the floor you have more control over the bass response - it will be less boomy.
To be very clear : the two amps mentioned here are completely different units re basic sound, loudness, headroom and how they spread the sound around so you have to treat them as separate units. Try setting the Princeton on the floor but tilted upwards so it points to your ears.
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Originally Posted by HerrvonPoppel
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This part confounds all my experience! Originally Posted by HerrvonPoppel
If you like your recorded sound, and if that is captured with a mike, then l would agree with Gitman's advice. Tilt the thing up so that you can hear the speaker more directly. It's actually kinda why they invented those tilt-back legs, and why some have that angled flat spot across the back corner.
Unless of course you've already tried that...
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Hey thank you all.
I actually tilt my amp as it has these tilt-back legs installed. And of course I place it as mentioned above suggested if its possible.
Yesterday I met the bass player and asked him some questions about his playing. I think I am mostly confused when he is playing
his low b-String. I am not used to these low bass notes. His electric bass has so much sustain compared to a double bass. He has some active pick up electronics which he can switch off and use passive pickups instead. I don´t have an idea what is happening but it´s fine when he stays in the "normal" range of bass instruments (one octave lower than me on guitar). It feels that my guitar also pick ups some of his low frequences. I don´t have that when playing with double bass. I will watch that and maybe exchange to a different guitar. But I will also try out this deeflexx and use some external speakers. I will give you some report if you like to.
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Lieber HerrvonPoppel,
you seem to have a monitoring problem. Tilting back the amp / pointing the speakers to your ear will most likely fix that.
You can lean the amp against a wall or something else or get some of the fender tilt-back legs like these: https://www.tubeampdoctor.com/search?sSearch=tilt
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Hard to say.
I've noticed that, sometimes, when I plug in at the start of a gig I hate the way the guitar sounds. Then, somehow, by the second set, it's okay. I think it takes me a while to acclimate to the sound, since it's not what I'm accustomed to.
If faced with this problem, I'd take a second amp (extension speaker might work, but I don't have one). I'd put one a few feet from myself and point it at my head - from the side, if the guitar is prone to feedback. The second one would be for the audience and maybe the rest of the band. I wouldn't have it close to myself, but, rather, elsewhere on the bandstand, and I'd let the leader or soundman adjust it however he wants.
The idea is to get control over what I'm hearing while not having those settings directly affect the audience.
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I've had to solve many of the same issues the the OP describes, as a piano/keyboard player and occasional guitarist with jazz ensembles of different sizes, in different venues, with unpredictable or absent PA and monitoring systems. Like the OP, I discovered that my sound was usually fine out in the audience, and that it was a monitoring issue that make me think my sound was problematic or unbalanced with the group. Sometimes it was just a volume issue...For me, at least, it's hard to judge dynamics and balance when the stage volume gets high. My solution is to capture the group sound with a small mic > tiny interface controlled by the AUM app on my iPhone > in-ear monitors. I can mix in some of my piano or guitar directly, to elevate my personal playing in my ears, but often don't need this. The use of IEMs also enables me to hear the entire group at a comfortable volume, lower than the ambient volume, and to judge my own dynamics much more easily. The entire monitor system is pocket-sized, invisible, and quick to set up. I use an omni lavalier mic on a short lighting stand centered on the floor just in front of the band, so it's unnoticed by audience. The AUM mixer app works with any class-compliant interface and has many advantages, including enabling me to record gigs on my phone at high res.
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Thank you all.
I tried two things. I bought this deeflexx and finally good cables (vovox). It does the job. I ´ll keep both.
My bass buddy also went to the doc and got his ears cleaned professionally. Maybe he is playing a bit softer because of that.
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