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  1. #1

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    Hi all in the community,

    I hope those in Europe or US can help here-

    Down in Australia there is not much action when it comes to the new or used market on ES-anything not 335. So when things pop up it is hard know the market value or not. Actual stores are few and far between and what is left hanging is generally from the lower tier Ibanez stables. So even trying an equivalent is very hard.

    A pretty looking piece of eye candy has popped up- an ES-165 HE with the floating BJB, case 'n all. From about the start of when the '165 changed to the floater. So far it seems to look as though it is good nick. Rarely used and about 20 years old.

    Trouble is- I can't exactly get to try before buy and it is a private sale. The distance between us is close to the distance from Boston to LA.
    I have to weigh this up against the qty in the country (supply) of Australia vs USA. I am guessing that we are closer to the European market in terms of units per capita and distance from the Guitar's homeland. Also there was the cost of initial shipment to Aust in the first place, and exchange rate.
    I had read that people would not consider an ES-165 for more than US$1800 but that is from threads going back to 2016 or earlier.
    Now (deep breath) $US1800 is about $2500 Aussie for perspective. The seller is not asking twice that but heading in that direction.

    Have prices gone nuts in recent years? A 175 is eye watering high. Even those with a reset neck!
    What would you consider is a fair continental or US value for these roosters in Mid-Pandemic '21? Not many data points in Reverb, and Jazz Players may possibly put different value on the floaters vs the set in variety from earlier runs? I read of <Max405> on this forum speaking highly of his? I'm keen to get a Jazz Player's perspective on these values- not a rock machine or super versatile take anywhere anything piece, but one designed and optimised for Jazz. I know I am asking about different markets, but at least there is enough volume to generate a market valuation?

    PS- this is for strictly along the lines of GASB style small (8pc) Jazz combo.

    Cheers all.
    EM

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  3. #2

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    There's a website called "The Blue Book of Guitar Values". It's aimed at the USA market, but with a little research you can probably find the right multiplier to go from USA prices to Australian prices.

    This is a by-subscription website; to get prices you have to pay for it. For electric guitars, it's about US$4/month or US$30/year.

    I can't give you any advice on what instrument to buy, except to say that in most cases it's the player not the guitar that matters.

    Are Eastman, Ibanez, Peerless, Seventy-Seven, Westville, or Archtop Tribute (walkin.jp) guitars available in Australia? Those might be alternatives.

    I don't know what a "GASB small style jazz combo" is. 8 pieces doesn't seem all that small.

  4. #3

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    Sorry-GASB great America song book standards. The combo fluctuates between 5 and 8 depending on people’s circumstance. It is a social gathering with a principle tutor.
    We have Eastman and Ibanez represented locally. Eastman has been sold out for the last 8-10 months it seems. Mainly interested though on the fair value of the Gibby though. I have no doubt the others make good stuff- it’s just that shop shelves are empty for the foreseeable future and this one only just stuck its head up.
    M

  5. #4

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    As of late, they generally seem to be going in the $2800-3300 range in the US, which is a significant increase in what they could be had for pre-pandemic.

  6. #5

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    Yeah, I paid exactly $1800 USD plus shipping for mine pre-pandemic. I knew that it was a good price then. I think that it is a 1999 model year. $2800-3300 USD sounds about right now. Great guitars and maybe worth that amount considering every other Gibson value, but I wouldn't have purchased mine at that price. I also have the set humbucker 1991 ES-165. Also a great guitar. I think that I paid $1800 USD plus shipping for that one as well. That was well before the pandemic. With ES-175 prices skyrocketing every year I could see the writing on the wall for ES-165s.

  7. #6

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    I couldn't tell you where the value of these is going in the UK. They were always around £1200-1500 some years back but the price of Archtops has gone through the roof. I would imagine them being £1800 to £2000 if someone was taking advantage of the dryer market.

    There is one for sale in he UK with a headstock repair for £1400. I'll send you a DM with the URL.

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by EastwoodMike
    <<SNIP>>
    We have Eastman and Ibanez represented locally. Eastman has been sold out for the last 8-10 months it seems. <<SNIP>>
    M
    Does this mean that my AR-503 and AR-371, located in Victoria, are now the saleable items that my wife would wish them to be?

  9. #8

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    National stock levels never correlate to my Wife's wishes. It might help validate them though

  10. #9

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    my two penneth

    i would not ‘buy before you try’
    (not for that kinda dough anyway)

    buy a cheap ibanez jazz box
    AF or AG whatever plays good
    in the shop
    they are very consistent builds
    guitar to guitar ....it’s a safer bet

    if it’s harsh to your ears
    change the neck pickup to
    something alnico to smooth it out
    a bit

  11. #10

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    ES165's have been creeping up in the UK especially last year 2020 until now, having said that not many for sale, it seems the price is approx. £2 to £2.2 ish difficult to be spot on not having many comparable all in same condition.

    Imo Japanese prices have definitely gone up to £2200 ish also tricky as 3-4 different companies sell the same guitar ( not entirely sure how it works)

    i sense/feel they have also gone up in the the US same time period.


    No idea of Australian market, but suspect one would pay a slight premium that they would initially be more expensive, as a thumb suck if £2200 ish in UK
    perhaps £2500 Australia .

    i recon generally there used to be 12 ish ES175's to one ES165 for sale ( im guessing here) but last two years number of ES175 for sale way down probably 40-50% for sale. I think people been hanging on and CO-VID knocked a lot of sales out, as people were inspecting/buying etc.


    very very good guitars. i had several, still have and prefer the set PUP, although floater good but slightly different.

    Long term i thing they will still increase closer to ES175 values as historically were a more affordable, heaven knows why they are Gibson made in America, with one less pup.


    I have had many MIJ Ibanez all fast great necks, but that Gibson not thin not thick rounded ( i call it ) is just so comfortable, perfect well for me.


    could be wrong but, my gut feel is that ES175 overall did not really increase as much as ES165, this makes sense because they are still not cheap for 2nd hand guitar, compared to you can buy new Ibanez MIJ Prestige for £2500 new so ( well made guitars ) GB10 AF200 JS100 etc etc etc

    Just my thoughts.

  12. #11

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    Ps....................... a while later

    i also would not but without trying, or being able to return.

    Its coming back to me now, overall i agree with others above in the US definitely have gone up i was a little low, and thinking more about it perhaps even £2400 in UK, in good condition, i would not touch any headstock repaired i have been down that road.

  13. #12

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    Hi all- thanks for your forthright and objective feedbacks. The instrument went for us$2.9k or 2.1k pounds. It was a 2013 model.
    since it was on the other side of the country I could not view it. Since there are no gibsons of this body shape around, I had no reference. On balance of all that I chose to pass.
    my quest for a single pup 16” continues.
    thanks all!
    M

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by EastwoodMike
    Hi all- thanks for your forthright and objective feedbacks. The instrument went for us$2.9k or 2.1k pounds. It was a 2013 model.
    since it was on the other side of the country I could not view it. Since there are no gibsons of this body shape around, I had no reference. On balance of all that I chose to pass.
    my quest for a single pup 16” continues.
    thanks all!
    M
    Are you specifically looking for an ES-165, or just generally for a a 1 pickup 16" guitar, including potentially ones that have a different sound? There are many options at many price points, but not all emulate the fairly specific sound of a Gibson laminated top guitar.

    If it has to be a 165, then I think you have steel up yourself to pay a lot. I was on the 16" quest about a year ago, and looking at Reverb (as a point of reference), asking prices for 165's are way up (hard to say what they actually go for, but I'd expect to pay ateasr $2500 US).

    But if you're open to other things, there are alternatives that will cost less used. The big caveat is availability. Compared to a year ago, the digital shelves look relatively bare.

    FWIW, I ultimately wound up with a 77 Hawk Jazz. Most have 2 pickups, but mine has one (I think it was custom made). I paid $1500 USD, but they're pretty uncommon.

    I also played:

    Comins GCS-16
    Eastman ar503, ar371, ar372, ar405
    D'Aquisto Jazz Line
    A Peerless 16" single pup (forgot the model)
    Gibson ES-125 (a few)
    Godin 5th Ave Kingpin (owned the I pickup version, and have tried the 2 pickup version extensively).
    Ibanez akjv95

    The ES 125 is essentially a P90 175 without the cutaway and sounds identical. The rest are at varying degrees of similarity)/difference to the Gibson sound.

    Others I've checked out digitally but not played:
    Ibanez AF125, PM2, 2355, FA100, FG109, AF200
    Heritage 575

    Any I've listed here (except maybe the Ibanez AF200) can be had for less than a 165. Several for a lot less, but the 77's some are pretty hard to find at any price.
    Last edited by John A.; 09-19-2021 at 12:52 AM.

  15. #14

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    I guess I'm late to the game as that one slipped away, but I do want to chip in that I have played a couple of ES-165's and they both sounded just fantastic. I loved them both -- I should have bought one, but I didn't have the $$$ at the time. I eventually ended up with a ES-175, but I still remember how great those guitars were. No comparison to an Ibanez or Eastman IMO.

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by EastwoodMike
    Hi all- thanks for your forthright and objective feedbacks. The instrument went for us$2.9k or 2.1k pounds. It was a 2013 model.
    since it was on the other side of the country I could not view it. Since there are no gibsons of this body shape around, I had no reference. On balance of all that I chose to pass.
    my quest for a single pup 16” continues.
    thanks all!
    M
    several hours later since my 1st posting,

    i think perhaps wait a while something will surface, i can assure you nothing compares to ES165, Eastmans Ibanez and others all high end, maybe good but feels as good as ES165. i have played many 175's some great but the one pup just pips it, (for me) if it were me i would go for a set pup, purely because the floater has a slightly different sound/attach put simply it is different


    The fact it went for £2.1 is also encouraging as when you should buy that's a ball park, even if £2.4-5 i think its worth it if in vg condition etc

  17. #16

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    I just noticed this one that sold last month in NSW for $3010 AUD

    Gibson ES-165 Guitar Herb Ellis Model Made in USA with Hard Case | eBay

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by EastwoodMike
    Hi all in the community,

    I hope those in Europe or US can help here-

    Down in Australia there is not much action when it comes to the new or used market on ES-anything not 335. So when things pop up it is hard know the market value or not. Actual stores are few and far between and what is left hanging is generally from the lower tier Ibanez stables. So even trying an equivalent is very hard.

    A pretty looking piece of eye candy has popped up- an ES-165 HE with the floating BJB, case 'n all. From about the start of when the '165 changed to the floater. So far it seems to look as though it is good nick. Rarely used and about 20 years old.

    Trouble is- I can't exactly get to try before buy and it is a private sale. The distance between us is close to the distance from Boston to LA.
    I have to weigh this up against the qty in the country (supply) of Australia vs USA. I am guessing that we are closer to the European market in terms of units per capita and distance from the Guitar's homeland. Also there was the cost of initial shipment to Aust in the first place, and exchange rate.
    I had read that people would not consider an ES-165 for more than US$1800 but that is from threads going back to 2016 or earlier.
    Now (deep breath) $US1800 is about $2500 Aussie for perspective. The seller is not asking twice that but heading in that direction.

    Have prices gone nuts in recent years? A 175 is eye watering high. Even those with a reset neck!
    What would you consider is a fair continental or US value for these roosters in Mid-Pandemic '21? Not many data points in Reverb, and Jazz Players may possibly put different value on the floaters vs the set in variety from earlier runs? I read of <Max405> on this forum speaking highly of his? I'm keen to get a Jazz Player's perspective on these values- not a rock machine or super versatile take anywhere anything piece, but one designed and optimised for Jazz. I know I am asking about different markets, but at least there is enough volume to generate a market valuation?

    PS- this is for strictly along the lines of GASB style small (8pc) Jazz combo.

    Cheers all.
    EM
    Well let's see, it was 2010 when I last bought an ES-165 floater. It was thru Ebay, from US to EU and the price was 1449 $.

    Last years I have not seen any going under 2000 $ anywhere. They don't pop up very often. But mostly in Japan.

    Buying after trying is a nice theory but for many of us it is only a theory. I live in Finland and if I had kept that principle, I would not have had many guitars in my life, and maybe not any Gibson ES-175/165 guitars at all. But all that I have bought "blind" have been good guitars, maybe I have had luck.

    Good luck to You too in Your quest!
    Last edited by Herbie; 09-19-2021 at 02:51 PM.