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  1. #1
    In response to a question on another Forum, Mat Koehler, of Gibson's Product Development area, stated the following:

    "2) I was hoping someone would ask this. We are in the thick of a major development project for both archtops and mandolins, and I have a meeting concerning banjos next week. Our existing range of archtops and mandolins doesn't really fall into Historic Reissue category nor a Modern category so they're incongruent with the current Custom Shop product archticture. And we don't even have them showcases on the website because there is nothing to market with such limited capacity. So we want to discontinue the current range, build all the current orders and incrementally introduce all-new models at a later time with way more capacity and many more skilled team members building them. An Archtop Historic Reissue collection. A Mandolin Historic Reissue and Modern Collection. A Banjo Historic Reissue Collection as well. It's going to take a lot of time but we're going to do it right, and I expect the first of the incremental new range to be released sometime in 2023. Stay tuned!"



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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Great! Now about the asking price? LOL !

  4. #3

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    As a non-native English speaker, I was left a bit confused. I think most of us would be elated with the return of reasonably priced ES-125, ES-175 and ES-350 type archtops in the Historic Collection. Whatever contemporary/modern they come up with, we'd welcome with open minds. Would all have to be made in USA? Not if you ask me. Mandolins, banjos - sounds like they're serious.

  5. #4

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    Don't feel bad, Gitterbug. I'm a native English speaker (American Dialect) and I still can't quite parse this:

    (words deleted in a failed attempt at clarity )

    Our existing range of archtops…doesn't really fall into Historic Reissue category…so we want to discontinue the current range…and …introduce all-new models….. [including]..... an Archtop Historic Reissue collection…

    I'm glad they plan to keep building archtops. I don't quite get the [category vs. collection] point. I'm sure they will be expensive and suspect they will be built at least in part offshore (which is not a problem imho if it is done right). Best of luck to them. May the L5 live forever.
    Last edited by Flat; 09-12-2021 at 04:12 PM.

  6. #5

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    At this point, any news about them making archtops again seems interesting. Something to keep an eye on and track. Fun

  7. #6

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    There has been no doubt in my mind that once the new management figured out how to make profitable archtops, production would resume.

    I expect the models we love will return, but we will not love the prices.

  8. #7

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    I hope Gibson makes a re-entry into archtop guitar building. Start with the ES-175. Make it great as ever and sell them for a fair price.

    Most folks can't afford $5k - $10k and up for a guitar, but that seems to be Gibson's target market.

    I love the Custom Shop's recent ES-350 tribute to Chuck Berry, but at $10k its ridiculous, especially if its laminate. (The ad does not state)

    Gibson | Chuck Berry 1955 ES-350T

  9. #8

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    Hope they dont treat them like the new Flying V and Explorers…
    Limited release at obscene prices.

  10. #9

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    This is great news. I do hope they keep their prices reasonable though. I can accept a Gibson premium but am not ready for a $6,000 Es-175. A reissue ES-125 would be really cool. A cheaper L-5 would be great too.

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gitterbug
    As a non-native English speaker, I was left a bit confused.
    Corporate-speak is like that. It's not exactly English, and it's not intended to communicate clearly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gitterbug
    ... [We] would be elated with the return of reasonably priced ES-125, ES-175 and ES-350 type archtops ...
    Reasonably priced? Unlikely.

  12. #11

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    As long as they keep making banjos, that’s the main thing.

    By the way, isn’t that a superb line: ‘I have a meeting concerning banjos next week’.

    How I would have loved to say something like that, during my 37 years of office work. It sounds like a Gary Larson cartoon.

  13. #12

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    Someone on here said some years back that Gibson would shrink into high priced, small batch releases.
    That kinda makes sense if you're coming back from facing the end.

    It's like what Gordon Ramsay does on Kitchen Nightmares. He goes into a restaurant, cuts the menu in half and puts 30% on the price.

  14. #13

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    The last year of the 175 was 2017 with a MAP of $5K.
    6 years later in 2023 it will be much higher.

    The L5 Studio made in the late 90’s was a solid affordable model.
    The huge mistake on the 2017 versions was the colors copper and
    army green. If they were traditional sunbursts they would have flew off the shelf.

    Right now a L5 Wes is $9700. A price few can pay. Gibson would be wise to bring back the Japan made Epiphone Elitist Broadway and Byrdland. A quality archtop that most can afford.

    In any case seeing all the Gibson archtop models back in production will make me very happy.
    Super 400, L5, Byrdland, L4, Tal Farlow, ES350, ES175, L7 and the one
    guitar everyone wants…the 1992 Joe Pass 175 model.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
    The last year of the 175 was 2017 with a MAP of $5K.
    6 years later in 2023 it will be much higher.

    The L5 Studio made in the late 90’s was a solid affordable model.
    The huge mistake on the 2017 versions was the colors copper and
    army green. If they were traditional sunbursts they would have flew off the shelf.

    Right now a L5 Wes is $9700. A price few can pay. Gibson would be wise to bring back the Japan made Epiphone Elitist Broadway and Byrdland. A quality archtop that most can afford.

    In any case seeing all the Gibson archtop models back in production will make me very happy.
    Super 400, L5, Byrdland, L4, Tal Farlow, ES350, ES175, L7 and the one
    guitar everyone wants…the 1992 Joe Pass 175 model.
    It could be beyond 2023 by the time we see all of the Historic reissue archtops on the market. Let's not forget the Johnny Smith model (hope springs eternal)

    It sounds like the next generation of Doctors, lawyers, accountants and software engineers will have some cool guitars to spend their high earnings on. Musicians (those of us who are still earning a living playing gigs in 2023 and beyond)? I doubt we will be buying any of those new Gibsons. Who ever thought that a Gibson guitar would occupy the same market niche as a Rolex watch?

  16. #15

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    Ya Marco by then I will be too long in the tooth and living on a pension.
    I had my fun in the sun with Gibson.
    A GJS would be great news for JD.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
    The last year of the 175 was 2017 with a MAP of $5K.
    6 years later in 2023 it will be much higher.

    The L5 Studio made in the late 90’s was a solid affordable model.
    The huge mistake on the 2017 versions was the colors copper and
    army green. If they were traditional sunbursts they would have flew off the shelf.

    Right now a L5 Wes is $9700. A price few can pay. Gibson would be wise to bring back the Japan made Epiphone Elitist Broadway and Byrdland. A quality archtop that most can afford.

    In any case seeing all the Gibson archtop models back in production will make me very happy.
    Super 400, L5, Byrdland, L4, Tal Farlow, ES350, ES175, L7 and the one
    guitar everyone wants…the 1992 Joe Pass 175 model.
    That L-7 Chris Flory plays... Wow. I have a few savvy business ideas to offer Gibson : a Chris Flory L-7 signature, a Martjin Van Itersen ES-125 signature, an ES-350 "the Barney Forman" contemporary historic.

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
    The last year of the 175 was 2017 with a MAP of $5K.
    6 years later in 2023 it will be much higher.

    The L5 Studio made in the late 90’s was a solid affordable model.
    The huge mistake on the 2017 versions was the colors copper and
    army green. If they were traditional sunbursts they would have flew off the shelf.

    Right now a L5 Wes is $9700. A price few can pay. Gibson would be wise to bring back the Japan made Epiphone Elitist Broadway and Byrdland. A quality archtop that most can afford.

    In any case seeing all the Gibson archtop models back in production will make me very happy.
    Super 400, L5, Byrdland, L4, Tal Farlow, ES350, ES175, L7 and the one
    guitar everyone wants…the 1992 Joe Pass 175 model.
    Yeah those 90s L-5 studios were phenomenal. Something like $2.5k IIRC, which was a lot of dough for me, but I could have (sorta) swung it in my single days. Came thaaaat close.

    Anyway, to the larger point about prices ... I really don't know. I have trouble seeing them putting out archtops that working or aspiring players can afford.

  19. #18

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    Considering in 2017 they couldn’t sell enough of the Historic Collection to keep the line afloat, I can’t imagine seeing that entire line come back. I am really curious about the statement below, WTF does that ‘incongruent/architecture reference really mean? They will build them all via CCM?



    so they're incongruent with the current Custom Shop product archticture. And we don't even have them showcases on the website because there is nothing to market with such limited capacity. So we want to discontinue the current range, build all the current orders and incrementally introduce all-new models at a later time

  20. #19

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    A 2023 Super 400 in gloss ebony black for $20K I would probably pull the trigger. Skippy dog food on a saltine really doesn’t taste that bad.

  21. #20

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    Vinny…. Mrs JK was a black belt. I am pretty sure me putting 20K into a guitar will guarantee me loosing some body part.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzkritter
    Vinny…. Mrs JK was a black belt. I am pretty sure me putting 20K into a guitar will guarantee me loosing some body part.
    Ditto to that. Duck and weave. I have mastered those moves.

  23. #22

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    I see something like a "Solid Formed Uptown" in my crystal ball :-)

    Let's face it, players will nitpick anything they come up with and G is and has been a victim of their own successes.

    That said, I no longer care what they come out with... There's nothing they can do that they haven't done better in the last 50 years.

    I got mine, Reverb has the rest of them for the rest of us likely at a more reasonable cost than G can deliver today.

  24. #23

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    This was back in March, but turns down my pessimism and ups hope). Bozeman made archtops would sound good.

    Gibson to expand its Bozeman acoustic factory to meet increased demand due to Covid-19 | Guitar World

  25. #24

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    This was back in March, but turns down my pessimism and ups hope). Bozeman made archtops would sound good.

    Gibson to expand its Bozeman acoustic factory to meet increased demand due to Covid-19 | Guitar World

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by jazzkritter
    Considering in 2017 they couldn’t sell enough of the Historic Collection to keep the line afloat, I can’t imagine seeing that entire line come back. I am really curious about the statement below, WTF does that ‘incongruent/architecture reference really mean? They will build them all via CCM?


    so they're incongruent with the current Custom Shop product archticture. And we don't even have them showcases on the website because there is nothing to market with such limited capacity. So we want to discontinue the current range, build all the current orders and incrementally introduce all-new models at a later time
    If I may use my Psi abilities to extract some meaning from this gibberish:
    "We are running this up the flagpole to see who salutes. Then we're gonna focus-group the crap out of this. Then we're gonna consult the Magic 8-Ball again and again until we get something that agrees with our pre-determined outcome, then we're gonna examine the entrails of an intern or two*, and we are going to hem, and haw, do do some other legerdemain and so forth. What we are not going to do is lose any money. You want an archtop, pony up."
    Or maybe I'm just being pessimistic.

    * They knew what they were signing up for!