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  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
    did you catch the non cutaway Jay Wolfe SE for $8.5k! Nice piece!
    2003 Heritage - Super Eagle Non-Cutaway Custom - Old Style | Reverb
    I've met Jay Wolfe and didn't realize he had such a sense of humour.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52

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    Just stating an opinion Heritage guitars are not generally on par with the better Gibson's. And again there are a few, but it's not been the norm over the 30 years and so many I've owned and played as well.

    If you were to compare Mark Campellone, Franz Elferink, Bill Comins, John Buscarino, etc than I would say you would have a case to make.
    I'm not trying to bash Heritage but they just don't have that many guitars that sound or play great in my opinion.

    If you love them more power to you and deals can be had for sure. But I'd take a Johnny Smith Gibson over any Heritage, especially if one doesn't get to try them in person.

  4. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by jads57
    Just stating an opinion Heritage guitars are not generally on par with the better Gibson's. And again there are a few, but it's not been the norm over the 30 years and so many I've owned and played as well.

    If you were to compare Mark Campellone, Franz Elferink, Bill Comins, John Buscarino, etc than I would say you would have a case to make.
    I'm not trying to bash Heritage but they just don't have that many guitars that sound or play great in my opinion.

    If you love them more power to you and deals can be had for sure. But I'd take a Johnny Smith Gibson over any Heritage, especially if one doesn't get to try them in person.
    You gotta get a life. You’ve made your distaste for all things Heritage well known here on this forum. Why keep rubbing it in with the same old diatribe? Give it a rest.

  5. #54

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    Thanks for stating the obvious 2B

    Heritage again - but seriously...-2fb966e7-7859-436e-be92-aee4785024b1-jpegHeritage again - but seriously...-e9c24a0b-cced-4316-91fc-c40e873c1c9b-jpegHeritage again - but seriously...-8e9a300f-5a7f-4d28-95a3-5fb2b959cbb7-jpegHeritage again - but seriously...-1db4994c-3aac-4a92-8173-0b47a5cfd4e7-jpegHeritage again - but seriously...-72c24beb-20dd-44bb-a0fe-5441ebd83c72-jpeg

  6. #55

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    Hey jads57
    Here’s My Heritage Johnny FrankenSmith
    Custom ordered one of the last three heritage Johnny Smith’s ever made premium wood package
    NOS Gibson JS tailpiece

    Heritage again - but seriously...-dbd7fb23-e473-43a5-9c64-436cf4735298-jpegHeritage again - but seriously...-213ad073-3ffb-4a22-910b-a0f7055bba8a-jpegHeritage again - but seriously...-57585835-2c60-4601-9557-93fc3bc41d14-jpegHeritage again - but seriously...-b2967522-c859-4b24-be54-c73844e59cd0-jpegHeritage again - but seriously...-4e0b145e-dab1-48bc-b52c-ad488e73db0d-jpeg

  7. #56

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    Each person achieves an opinion by his own path. If you see Heritages as generally inferior to Gibsons, you have formed your own truth. But is it rational?

    Consider some facts that could challenge your opinion.

    1. Most of the Heritage workers in the first few years were Gibson employees who were offered a position in Nashville but declined. These were not lower skilled workers. The Heritage owners were both experienced and in supervisory positions at Gibson.

    2. The tools and the wood sources Gibson used were acquired by Heritage.

    3. Jay Wolfe became a Heritage dealer because the quality of Gibson guitars had fallen off. The better archtops were diverted to the Asian market. Jay was skeptical at first but soon realized his customers got better instruments at a lower price with Heritage. Jay explained this to me a couple of years ago as he was preparing for retirement.

    4. Johnny Smith separated from Gibson due to the variable quality on the instruments they made. He opted to go with Heritage, which improved the instrument according to Johnny.

    I grew up with Gibson builders and then Heritage builders. I understand the culture (singular). Nashville isn't evil. They produce some good instruments, some of which I have. Heritage has made some boo boos, as has Gibson. Each guitar from both builders has to stand on its own for judgement. To generalize about brand difference is to express subjective bias. My opinion is that deprives you of some fine instruments. Your words may tend to spread your bias more broadly. I weigh in to add some balance to the discussion.

    My advice has always been and remains that it is best to buy a guitar you try first or get it from someone you can trust. If I were having an archtop built, I'd call on Mark Campellone, not Gibson or Heritage. If I were ordering an electric I would get one from Chuck Thornton. If I wanted an off the line electric solidbody, it would be a G&L. But...I would be very tempted to get the new Heritage Custom Core solid body. These seem to have everything good about a Les Paul. Even the headstock should be pleasing. The feedback I've heard on these is as good as it gets for this style guitar. And I know the guy who supervises the build. He's very talented.

    Heritage again - but seriously...-0-1-thumb-jpg-b62df2582714a3b36672a4a7c831a7ec-jpgHeritage again - but seriously...-0-thumb-jpg-c1d35368e271843aa7dcfd467d0639b8-jpgHeritage again - but seriously...-0-2-thumb-jpg-3d2e98e7d721f64802437b1ced6f1268-jpgHeritage again - but seriously...-0-3-thumb-jpg-93db741d6134eb6a74f9e77453bf5bca-jpg

    Heritage Custom Shop Core H-150 Dark Cherry Sunburst w/CME Hand-Select – Chicago Music Exchange

  8. #57

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    On dissing all guitars from one builder, I defer to St Francis of Hoboken:
    ”Some people get their kicks stepping on other peoples dreams”
    But that’s life

  9. #58

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    Marty you're right about me giving it a rest. But I take issue with some of your points.
    Not on correct history nor quality issues at Norlin Gibson era.
    These were the guys at Gibson during Norlins era of Gibson guitars.

    They continued many of the same building practices or beliefs they had during their employment at Gibson

    1.) Heavy Les Paul weights

    2.) Skinny or heavy tapered neck profiles

    3.) Poor choice of pickups and some hardware (Schaller Pickups, Tuneomatic bridge)

    4.) Not the best taste in aesthetics.

    Again most of the Heritages pictured in this thread look great, but those are the exception not the general norm.
    Also Pete Farmer seems to understand these downfalls and a great luthier as well.
    I will also add many Gibson's are not my cup of tea either. But the Crimson era and Jim Hutchins era Gibson's are generally exceptional guitars.

    Also you are entitled to love any guitar you like. My opinion differs greatly from yours from my experiences. And as you so rightly point out I will give it a rest!

  10. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by jads57
    Marty you're right about me giving it a rest. But I take issue with some of your points.
    Not on correct history nor quality issues at Norlin Gibson era.
    These were the guys at Gibson during Norlins era of Gibson guitars.

    They continued many of the same building practices or beliefs they had during their employment at Gibson

    1.) Heavy Les Paul weights

    2.) Skinny or heavy tapered neck profiles

    3.) Poor choice of pickups and some hardware (Schaller Pickups, Tuneomatic bridge)

    4.) Not the best taste in aesthetics.

    Again most of the Heritages pictured in this thread look great, but those are the exception not the general norm.
    Also Pete Farmer seems to understand these downfalls and a great luthier as well.
    I will also add many Gibson's are not my cup of tea either. But the Crimson era and Jim Hutchins era Gibson's are generally exceptional guitars.

    Also you are entitled to love any guitar you like. My opinion differs greatly from yours from my experiences. And as you so rightly point out I will give it a rest!
    Hey, it’s only an opinion, and you’re entitled to yours.

    But out of the 25 or so Heritage archtops, of every stripe, I’ve previously owned, I’ve never had a lemon. That’s right, never! So how could that be? Just lucky? I don’t think so.

  11. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crm114
    Thanks for stating the obvious 2B

    Heritage again - but seriously...-2fb966e7-7859-436e-be92-aee4785024b1-jpegHeritage again - but seriously...-e9c24a0b-cced-4316-91fc-c40e873c1c9b-jpegHeritage again - but seriously...-8e9a300f-5a7f-4d28-95a3-5fb2b959cbb7-jpegHeritage again - but seriously...-1db4994c-3aac-4a92-8173-0b47a5cfd4e7-jpegHeritage again - but seriously...-72c24beb-20dd-44bb-a0fe-5441ebd83c72-jpeg
    Pardon me, I’m lost in the clouds!

  12. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crm114
    Hey jads57
    Here’s My Heritage Johnny FrankenSmith
    Custom ordered one of the last three heritage Johnny Smith’s ever made premium wood package
    NOS Gibson JS tailpiece

    Heritage again - but seriously...-dbd7fb23-e473-43a5-9c64-436cf4735298-jpegHeritage again - but seriously...-213ad073-3ffb-4a22-910b-a0f7055bba8a-jpegHeritage again - but seriously...-57585835-2c60-4601-9557-93fc3bc41d14-jpegHeritage again - but seriously...-b2967522-c859-4b24-be54-c73844e59cd0-jpegHeritage again - but seriously...-4e0b145e-dab1-48bc-b52c-ad488e73db0d-jpeg
    That’s some of the finest wood ever! And a sunburst!!!

  13. #62

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    Well I'd say either you were incredibly lucky and or our tastes differ greatly. And maybe that's a good thing.
    Also never said Heritage made lemons, just not aesthetically pleasing and to specs that were similar to Norlin era Gibson's. Which I don't care for.

    For those who like those spec and look, you are in luck. There are many Heritages at very good prices available.

  14. #63

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    “I'm not trying to bash Heritage but they just don't have that many guitars that sound or play great in my opinion”. (Jads57 post 52)

    Also never said Heritage made lemons, just not aesthetically pleasing and to specs that were similar to Norlin era Gibson's. Which I don't care for.” (Jads57 post 62)

    History does not rewrite itself. People do.
    jk

  15. #64

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    Folks seem to forget that when Heritage started up in the mid-80's and for the next twenty plus years, they were a custom shop. In addition to their standard model offerings, customers and dealers could request numerous custom upgrades. Many unique and personalized instruments came out of that dusty old Kalamazoo factory. Yes, they were based on the standard guitars, but one could ask for just about any modifications, as long as the basic guitar was one of their models.

    Fans of Heritage custom guitars ordered what they wanted, and the market for unique Heritage guitars grew. The reason I bring up this point is that some of the biggest fans of Heritage (like me) loved that former business model and bought new or used customized Heritages. True, the basic models tended to have slim neck profiles, Schaller pickups and bridges. But others had thick necks, upgraded electronics, 'choice woods package', multi-laminate necks, stingers, and much more.

    My point is that one simply cannot generalize about Heritage, especially if the opinions are based on 'off the shelf' models or those that had sub-par features. There are many exceptional upgraded Heritage guitars in the hands of lucky owners. Most of us don't sell them because they are unique, personalized, amazing works of playable art, and currently would cost a small fortune to have a similar guitar built today. The current Heritage Custom Shop or Bespoke Program will build whatever customers want, as long as it is based on the current models. But get ready to pay top dollar for it.

    For folks who simply hate Heritage for whatever reason, or like to bring up their personal reasons why they are somehow inferior to other brands, that's cool too. There's always another guitar company that is willing to take your money and hopefully satisfy you. It's like what an old drummer I worked with once said to another grumpy musician..."Man, you're killin' my groove!". On this forum some Heritage haters simply want to 'kill the groove' of the many satisfied Heritage owners.

  16. #65

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    I have a few Heritage archtop guitars and have handled many more. It took me many years to find ones with necks that I like, that are also quite pretty, but eventually I did. Beyond that, and since I'm a shallow individual, most of my issues with Heritage are cosmetic, not functional. I like what this guy wrote:
    "Put a bunch of fine craftsmen to build a house without an architect and see the end result. That's Heritage for ya."
    - Jabberwocky [14-07-18]

  17. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gitfiddler
    Folks seem to forget that when Heritage started up in the mid-80's and for the next twenty plus years, they were a custom shop. In addition to their standard model offerings, customers and dealers could request numerous custom upgrades. Many unique and personalized instruments came out of that dusty old Kalamazoo factory. Yes, they were based on the standard guitars, but one could ask for just about any modifications, as long as the basic guitar was one of their models.

    Fans of Heritage custom guitars ordered what they wanted, and the market for unique Heritage guitars grew. The reason I bring up this point is that some of the biggest fans of Heritage (like me) loved that former business model and bought new or used customized Heritages. True, the basic models tended to have slim neck profiles, Schaller pickups and bridges. But others had thick necks, upgraded electronics, 'choice woods package', multi-laminate necks, stingers, and much more.

    My point is that one simply cannot generalize about Heritage, especially if the opinions are based on 'off the shelf' models or those that had sub-par features. There are many exceptional upgraded Heritage guitars in the hands of lucky owners. Most of us don't sell them because they are unique, personalized, amazing works of playable art, and currently would cost a small fortune to have a similar guitar built today. The current Heritage Custom Shop or Bespoke Program will build whatever customers want, as long as it is based on the current models. But get ready to pay top dollar for it.

    For folks who simply hate Heritage for whatever reason, or like to bring up their personal reasons why they are somehow inferior to other brands, that's cool too. There's always another guitar company that is willing to take your money and hopefully satisfy you. It's like what an old drummer I worked with once said to another grumpy musician..."Man, you're killin' my groove!". On this forum some Heritage haters simply want to 'kill the groove' of the many satisfied Heritage owners.
    Very well said Tim. Truthful and Diplomatic. But I get the sense he never wanted to find a Heritage he could live with. It’s no secret I found 25 exceptional Heritage guitars yet he found none. We each have to examine our biases for they in a way define us. Or not.

  18. #67

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    Jazzkritter enjoy your Heritage Archtops in good health. My original point was to say I think the old Heritage guitars by the original owners are in the Norlin style of Gibson's.
    If that appeals to you than you will be very happy with them.

    For me as well as many others older 1950s Golden Era Gibson's as well as the Jim Hutchins and Phillip Whorton era Archtops are way more appealing in both playability as well as aesthetic, and tone.

  19. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by jads57
    Jazzkritter enjoy your Heritage Archtops in good health. My original point was to say I think the old Heritage guitars by the original owners are in the Norlin style of Gibson's.
    If that appeals to you than you will be very happy with them.

    For me as well as many others older 1950s Golden Era Gibson's as well as the Jim Hutchins and Phillip Whorton era Archtops are way more appealing in both playability as well as aesthetic, and tone.
    there you go...me and many others was your premise. As if to say, see you’re actually in the minority because “so many other people prefer a Gibson.” Well then, call me a Rebel!

  20. #69

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    Okay James Dean ,LOL !

  21. #70

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    Jads57 you are quickly becoming the Debbie foener of this site

  22. #71

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    Well if you mean Debbie Downer, I'll take that and raise you a Tritone!

  23. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crm114
    Hey jads57
    Here’s My Heritage Johnny FrankenSmith
    Custom ordered one of the last three heritage Johnny Smith’s ever made premium wood package
    NOS Gibson JS tailpiece

    Heritage again - but seriously...-dbd7fb23-e473-43a5-9c64-436cf4735298-jpegHeritage again - but seriously...-213ad073-3ffb-4a22-910b-a0f7055bba8a-jpegHeritage again - but seriously...-57585835-2c60-4601-9557-93fc3bc41d14-jpegHeritage again - but seriously...-b2967522-c859-4b24-be54-c73844e59cd0-jpegHeritage again - but seriously...-4e0b145e-dab1-48bc-b52c-ad488e73db0d-jpeg
    Man that is nice. I mean like, really really nice.
    You rarely see this kind of wood.
    I wish I could hear the difference this tailpiece makes over the Finger Tailpiece. I've had a hunch that the L5/GJS tailpiece alters the sound of the guitar its on.
    Thanks for sharing. That is really a beauty. World class.
    JD

  24. #73

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    I've been trying to stay out of this.
    I probably should, but I cant.
    There are things that make Heritage Guitars sooo Different from Gibson Guitars. It is sometimes hard to believe they were (in alot of cases) made by the same people, in the same shop. But I think the lighter builds of some of the Heritage guitars harken back to the 50's builds on the Gibsons. Both brands have their definite strengths and weaknesses. I prefer Gibson hands down, but there have been some extraordinary Heritage Guitars that have passed through these paws that I miss.
    One thing I personally can say from experience, (that I've never heard before) is NONE of the Heritage Guitars I've ever had were Checked.. Not a one. Have you ever noticed that?
    I am lucky that my L5 is not checked.
    I wonder if this is pure luck or is it some kind of plasticizer that Heritage uses in the Nitro they shoot.
    They are both great. Any person who owns either guitar, is really blessed.
    JD

  25. #74

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    Glad that’s been settled.

  26. #75

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    Jads57 thank you for your well wishes, but I cant enjoy a Heritage in good health cause i have never played nor owned a Heritage guitar.

    Not a Kalamazoo among my herd:

    Gibson 89 L5CESN; 98 Tal Farlow Viceroy Brown.
    Ibanez PM200 MIJ; AF200 MIJ; AF95FM Indo.
    2014 640mm Antonio Marin-Montero classical. Challenge me on anything but the Marin ?