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  1. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
    Yes I have to think those players that came from swing through bebop were pivotal in "thunk".



    Yep if you listen to CC and other electrified jazz guitar pioneers, its a brighter tone, kind of reminiscent of the banjo to me. It's likely the combination of the right guitars--right amps--right recording equipment--and players who were trying to fit into the bebop style. That's my opinion anyway.
    Hmm. I love CC and I don't hear any banjo influence or recollection in CC's playing. I have no idea how the distinctive tone of the ES175 (baseline for "thunk") could possibly be associated with banjo-influenced early swing playing.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #102

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    Y'all still talking about this? I'd have THUNK you'd have settled it by now...

  4. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    Hmm. I love CC and I don't hear any banjo influence or recollection in CC's playing. I have no idea how the distinctive tone of the ES175 (baseline for "thunk") could possibly be associated with banjo-influenced early swing playing.
    Well I think CC was sui generis and more influenced by horn players, but a lot of the early jazz guitarists still had the banjo rhythm thing going on.

    I don't think the banjo led to the 175 sound. My point was that better equipment in the 40's and 50's and the rise of bebop led to a style that was very suited for the 175.

  5. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
    Well I think CC was sui generis and more influenced by horn players, but a lot of the early jazz guitarists still had the banjo rhythm thing going on.

    I don't think the banjo led to the 175 sound. My point was that better equipment in the 40's and 50's and the rise of bebop led to a style that was very suited for the 175.
    But we're talking not about generic jazz guitar tone but "thunk" which most agree is captured by the short-scale laminated electrics like the ES175 on "Joy Spring" or "For Django." That sound is not derived from the banjo which I would call the exact, polar opposite of thunk.

  6. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    But we're talking not about generic jazz guitar tone but "thunk" which most agree is captured by the short-scale laminated electrics like the ES175 on "Joy Spring" or "For Django." That sound is not derived from the banjo which I would call the exact, polar opposite of thunk.
    I think we’re misunderstanding each other. I am not saying that thunk is derived from the banjo or from that style of playing. I’m saying that to me most early players emulated the banjo and plectrum guitar and did not have a sound we would call thunk.

    Then in the 40’s and 50’s with Oscar Moore, George Barnes, Barney Kessel and others, as bebop began to take hold, a new guitar language became predominant that emphasized rapid chord changes and bursts of notes. The guitars and amplifiers and recording technology of the day complemented the new playing style, and the “thunk” sound grew out of this.

    I don’t known who the first “thunky” player was, but here is a 1946 recording by George Barnes that has a nice tone and a bit of the thunk there, to my ears.


  7. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
    I think we’re misunderstanding each other. I am not saying that thunk is derived from the banjo or from that style of playing. I’m saying that to me most early players emulated the banjo and plectrum guitar and did not have a sound we would call thunk.

    Then in the 40’s and 50’s with Oscar Moore, George Barnes, Barney Kessel and others, as bebop began to take hold, a new guitar language became predominant that emphasized rapid chord changes and bursts of notes. The guitars and amplifiers and recording technology of the day complemented the new playing style, and the “thunk” sound grew out of this.

    I don’t known who the first “thunky” player was, but here is a 1946 recording by George Barnes that has a nice tone and a bit of the thunk there, to my ears.

    Aha. I see I misunderstood. Sorry about that. thanks!

  8. #107

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    When the bebop guys started playing the laminate-body Gibsons--ES-300/ES-350/ES-175--around 1946, or so, the foundations of thunk were laid.

    By the time that Kessel and Farlow were playing with flats on their ES-350 guitars into Gibson tube amps the "thunk," rhymes with funk, was getting pretty strong.

    The ES-175 is the standard bearer of thunk, but it was all there on vinyl in the grooves of Farlow and Kessel with the mighty ES-350.

  9. #108

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    Is thunk the opposite of plink?

  10. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by Litterick
    Is thunk the opposite of plink?
    Pretty much, IMHO.

  11. #110

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    After reading this thread, and realizing that there seems to be multiple interpretations of the word, I'm now convinced that the real "thunk" is the friends we made along the. way.

  12. #111

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    Quote Originally Posted by customxke
    After reading this thread, and realizing that there seems to be multiple interpretations of the word, I'm now convinced that the real "thunk" is the friends we made along the. way.
    Thunkin' A!

  13. #112

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    I think someone with some Powerpoint skills should make a timeline of major guitar innovations and pivotal changes.

    Broad outline:

    Early combo and dance band players--similar to banjo

    Charlie--first major electric solo player

    Mid-century dance band-->bebop players--brought in the thunk and raised the profile of the guitar as a solo jazz instrument

    Wes--preeminent popularizer of melodic jazz playing

    Joe--model for solo fingerstyle "stride style" guitar

    George--brought jazz guitar popularity to a new level, especially with scat singing

    Al, John, Allen, etc.--carried jazz into the rock arena with fusion

    Pat, Bill (Frisell)--emphasized the guitarist as composer and soundscape artist

    Not to leave out anyone. Feel free to add or revise if you wish.

  14. #113

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
    I think someone with some Powerpoint skills should make a timeline of major guitar innovations and pivotal changes.

    Broad outline:

    Early combo and dance band players--similar to banjo

    Charlie--first major electric solo player

    Mid-century dance band-->bebop players--brought in the thunk and raised the profile of the guitar as a solo jazz instrument

    Wes--preeminent popularizer of melodic jazz playing

    Joe--model for solo fingerstyle "stride style" guitar

    George--brought jazz guitar popularity to a new level, especially with scat singing

    Al, John, Allen, etc.--carried jazz into the rock arena with fusion

    Pat, Bill (Frisell)--emphasized the guitarist as composer and soundscape artist

    Not to leave out anyone. Feel free to add or revise if you wish.
    THUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNK THUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNK THUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNK THUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNK THUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNK THUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNK THUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNK THUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNK THUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNK THUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNK THUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNK THUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNK THUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNK THUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNK THUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNK THUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNK THUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNK

    (thunk)

  15. #114

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    THUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNK THUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNK THUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNK THUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNK THUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNK THUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNK THUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNK THUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNK THUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNK THUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNK THUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNK THUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNK THUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNK THUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNK THUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNK THUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNK THUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNKTHUNK

    (thunk)
    That was a thunked up post.......

  16. #115

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    Whooda thunkit?

  17. #116

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff
    I think someone with some Powerpoint skills should make a timeline of major guitar innovations and pivotal changes.

    Broad outline:

    Early combo and dance band players--similar to banjo

    Charlie--first major electric solo player

    Mid-century dance band-->bebop players--brought in the thunk and raised the profile of the guitar as a solo jazz instrument

    Wes--preeminent popularizer of melodic jazz playing

    Joe--model for solo fingerstyle "stride style" guitar

    George--brought jazz guitar popularity to a new level, especially with scat singing

    Al, John, Allen, etc.--carried jazz into the rock arena with fusion

    Pat, Bill (Frisell)--emphasized the guitarist as composer and soundscape artist

    Not to leave out anyone. Feel free to add or revise if you wish.

    Hard bop/soul jazz/ organ trio (KB, GG, Pat Martino) goes in there somewhere (Benson probably arguably goes in this bucket)

  18. #117

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    Who put the thunk in the thunk thunk thunk thunk thunk?