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  1. #1

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    hello What brand of tubes and type do you use for fender twin reverb 65 reissue POWER amp?
    jazz tone.
    ***ONLY TR RE 65*** POWER AMP only.

    no other amps, for sale, no preamp tubes, no web adv, no sales etc
    just power amp choice.
    Last edited by archtopdream63; 04-08-2021 at 10:11 PM. Reason: wrong title

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    I use original blackface Twins almost exclusively these days, for me it's new old stock Philips STR-387's or mil spec STR-415's w/double halo getters from the 1980's
    they're pricey when you can find them but very robust w/tons of clean headroom and last a long long time, so more than worth it to me. I have several quads saved for a rainy day or 3.
    I know they were reissued, I have no experience w/those but I'd imagine they're inferior to the originals as are most [but not all] modern vacuum tubes.


  4. #3

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    I have no specific experience retubing a TR but I have been very happy with JJ 6L6 power tubes in my two tweed Fender amps (Blues DeVille and Blues Deluxe).

    I haven't experimented a lot with pre tubes - there are many threads on the web about which ones have the most headroom vs early breakup, smooth breakup etc. I tend to just stick with 12AX7s. The ECC83S high-gain replacement for 12AX7 did not sound dramatically different to me from the 12AX7s they replaced, but I didn't do an A/B test, nor would it have really been a good test to compare old f---ed up 12AX7s with new ECC83Ses...

    I can recommend Eurotubes.com - great prices, fast service, knowledgable and helpful staff.

    Some folks on this forum say that JJs are not a great match for every amp. That may or may not be true ... people can argue for DAYS about tubes. Seriously. I will just say that I like the JJs in my Fenders and your tastes (or amps) may vary.

    @wintermoon I bet those blackface TRs are great!


    Cheers,

    SJ

  5. #4

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    "@wintermoon I bet those blackface TRs are great!"

    they truly are starjasmine, and since I regularly play in Hammond B-3 bands they're a perfect match for me.
    heck, I even use them at home!
    I still love blackface Vibrolux Reverbs best but they can't cut it in Hammond bands w/out micing.


  6. #5

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    Another vote for JJs get the Apex matching system tubes. Super close current draw. I've had good luck with them very reasonable modern tube.

  7. #6

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    I’ve used TAD premium select 7025’s for many years now, with no ill effects. I’ve also used TAD’s in high end audio tube amps and preamps. They sing equally well on the audio side of the spectrum. Not as expensive as many NOS tubes, yet they provide great performance.

  8. #7

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    A JAN Phillips 5751 in the preamp I find mellows out a blackface due to its lower gain. They’re not as common as they used to be, but they are out there. Mil spec, I’ve had mine in my TR and PR for ten years still strong.

  9. #8
    I had the STR-387 sylvania before and I didn’t like the mid freq.

  10. #9
    what do you think about sovtek, groove tubes, EV?
    Anybody knows the 6n3c-e russian made?

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by wintermoon
    I use original blackface Twins almost exclusively these days, for me it's new old stock Philips STR-387's or mil spec STR-415's w/double halo getters from the 1980's
    they're pricey when you can find them but very robust w/tons of clean headroom and last a long long time, so more than worth it to me. I have several quads saved for a rainy day or 3.
    I know they were reissued, I have no experience w/those but I'd imagine they're inferior to the originals as are most [but not all] modern vacuum tubes.

    Those bring back memories - I grew up where those Philips tubes were made. Many of my neighbors worked at Philips ECG.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

  12. #11

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    honestly, i'm done with NOS tubes. Every single one of them i've bought in the last 2 years turns out not to be really NOS. They have been OOS (old old stock) put in boxes to make them look like NOS and have been noisy and unreliable. The tungsol reissue and JJ tubes sound great IMO...

  13. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker
    honestly, i'm done with NOS tubes. Every single one of them i've bought in the last 2 years turns out not to be really NOS. They have been OOS (old old stock) put in boxes to make them look like NOS and have been noisy and unreliable. The tungsol reissue and JJ tubes sound great IMO...
    thats what i’m talking about..old old stock.
    too much $$ for nothing.
    just fanatic stuff
    thumbs up for jzucker

  14. #13
    btw, vintage musical stuff is often more for nostalgic then for professionals.
    Honestly I can’t ear 3000$ of better sound between a re-issue and an original blackface 65.

  15. #14

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    I won't name names but i bought some really expensive NOS Mullard CV4024 tubes from a very reliable seller who burns them in for 24 hours, does noise and balancing tests, etc. I put them in my old flame and in my '68 bandmaster reverb in the reverb driver and phase inverter positions and they performed horribly. Spitting and scratching sounds and generally underwhelming performance. Same deal with a set of NOS Military GE, JAN 12AT7 tubes I bought from another well known seller.

    I basically wasted hundreds of dollars. The tungsol and JJ tubes are quieter and perform just as well. I'm sure if you truly get a great, unused NOS tube they sound great but the chances of getting one - even from a reliable dealer - in 2021 and beyond is slim...

  16. #15

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    I have had excellent experience with Ruby 6L6 power tubes in the TRRI.

    I like to also use lower gain preamp tubes; a 12AY7 (about 20% of the gain of a 12AX7) in V1 or V2 promotes a very nice jazz tone and allows the amp to breath freely with the volume up. Same low gain tube used in either the reverb send or reverb return position will take the slushiness out of the reverb sound and produce a more natural ambient sound... that tube placed in one or the other of those reverb positions have a slightly different effect, and if you put it in the return position the gain for that stage may not be enough for the vibrato effect to work, in case you need vibrato.

  17. #16

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    The problem with using an 12AY7 in place of the AX7 is that you lose headroom. It's not a quieter amp with the same headroom, it's a quieter amp with LESS headroom. Of course it's all subjective...

  18. #17
    I’ve read somewhere which benson use a 12ay7 on v1 and 12ax7 on v6 or something like that, but I may be wrong

  19. #18

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    like I said, the AY7 on V1 will give you 50% power and less headroom too. If that's what you want it's cool but it doesn't give you less power and the same headroom. The preamp will give you that brown sound with the AY7 IMO...

  20. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker
    like I said, the AY7 on V1 will give you 50% power and less headroom too. If that's what you want it's cool but it doesn't give you less power and the same headroom. The preamp will give you that brown sound with the AY7 IMO...
    I use normal channel so and so..
    but, It’s cleaner then the vibrato channel. This is what I noticed.
    V2 I just put a Rca long plate and it’s microphonic, but sounds so good. Other preamp tubes are GT i guess from 90’s or 00’s

  21. #20

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    The Normal channel goes through two gain stages before the phase inverter, the Vibrato channel goes through three gain stages.

    Headroom is logarithmic (dB) so two head rooms compared may be the "same" as far as dB, yet the reference level of one may be louder in sound pressure level than the other. Thinking about "more or less" headroom may need distinguishing this.

    I do find that using a lower gain tube makes the most benefit when put in V2 for the vibrato channel.

    Generally, I get the best jazz tone out of big tube amps by keeping things "low" throughout - guitar volume about 7, input 2 (-6dB), tone stack gain "bypassed" by maxing midrange and minimizing bass and treble, low gain in the reverb return tube which is also that channel's third gain stage... all this seems to naturally bring out the best jazz tone using my solid body Strat; may be different using a hollow body jazz box.

  22. #21

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    TAD 6L6 always worked best in my Mesa Boogie amps. But JJ were also okay.

  23. #22

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    Deleted my OT post and PMed jads57 instead....

  24. #23
    can you write your eq setting?

  25. #24

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    I don't think I'd trust that a set of tubes were really NOS unless I opened the time capsule myself. Maybe carbon dating would convince me if that can be done non-destructively.

    I've also been burned on a promise of NOS tubes.

    I have JJ's in my old Reverberocket. They sound fine, but I've had to replace one even though the amp sits at home. The original Ampeg tubes lasted about 40 years and I was gigging the amp part of that time. So, I figure the JJ's aren't as durable as the old stuff.

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by archtopdream63
    can you write your eq setting?
    who?

  27. #26

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    JJs are affordable, widely available and sound good enough for me.
    but I don't have no Fender TR.

  28. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by archtopdream63
    can you write your eq setting?
    The Fender tube amps use a tone stack circuit (looks like three legs of a ladder) where legs correspond to the treble, middle, and bass control potentiometers.

    The way this works is that treble and bass controls work "backwards"... they don't add treble or bass, they only subtract. Full subtraction is when the controls are set to "1", and as you turn them "up for more" they subtract less. In order for this to work the tone stack inserts a 20dB gain stage from which the subtraction operates upon (basically, the signal level is boosted so the shape of the EQ can be carved from it).

    The middle tone control does something else - it is the insertion loss compensation, and it acts to raise and lower the level of the entire carved-out shape of the EQ which is why the middle control seems to interact a bit with the other two controls.

    The Fender tone stack is "flat" when the middle is full up and both treble and bass are full down. In Fender tone stacks that just have two tone controls (treble and bass), the middle leg of the stack uses a fixed resistor instead of a potentiometer.

    All this to make clear what I meant by "bypassing" the tone stack gain - maxing middle and minimizing treble and bass is defeating or using the least of the gain in the tone stack.

    The Bright switch is designed for lower volume settings and is connected to the volume control so that its effect is completely rolled off by the time the volume control is rotated to about half way. For Fender tube amp channels without a middle control, the bright switch is still in the circuit, acting "on" all the time, but no switch for it on the control panel, and like the other amps it also rolls off about half up on the volume control. This is why some smaller amps sound brighter (because there is not a switch to turn the Bright off) and so folks figure ways to play with the volume up around half or more, by decreasing volume on the guitar, using input 2 (-6dB), using a low gain tube for the preamp stage of the channel, etc...

    Some guitarist think input 2 (-6dB) is the one you use for sound check and then you switch to input 1 for performance... Seriously, choice of input concerns the way the amp's front end see the loading of the guitar pickups - experiment with both inputs and see if you hear a preference and feel a difference in how the guitar handles and responds as you play.

  29. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by pauln
    The Fender tube amps use a tone stack circuit (looks like three legs of a ladder) where legs correspond to the treble, middle, and bass control potentiometers.

    The way this works is that treble and bass controls work "backwards"... they don't add treble or bass, they only subtract. Full subtraction is when the controls are set to "1", and as you turn them "up for more" they subtract less. In order for this to work the tone stack inserts a 20dB gain stage from which the subtraction operates upon (basically, the signal level is boosted so the shape of the EQ can be carved from it).

    The middle tone control does something else - it is the insertion loss compensation, and it acts to raise and lower the level of the entire carved-out shape of the EQ which is why the middle control seems to interact a bit with the other two controls.

    The Fender tone stack is "flat" when the middle is full up and both treble and bass are full down. In Fender tone stacks that just have two tone controls (treble and bass), the middle leg of the stack uses a fixed resistor instead of a potentiometer.

    All this to make clear what I meant by "bypassing" the tone stack gain - maxing middle and minimizing treble and bass is defeating or using the least of the gain in the tone stack.

    The Bright switch is designed for lower volume settings and is connected to the volume control so that its effect is completely rolled off by the time the volume control is rotated to about half way. For Fender tube amp channels without a middle control, the bright switch is still in the circuit, acting "on" all the time, but no switch for it on the control panel, and like the other amps it also rolls off about half up on the volume control. This is why some smaller amps sound brighter (because there is not a switch to turn the Bright off) and so folks figure ways to play with the volume up around half or more, by decreasing volume on the guitar, using input 2 (-6dB), using a low gain tube for the preamp stage of the channel, etc...

    Some guitarist think input 2 (-6dB) is the one you use for sound check and then you switch to input 1 for performance... Seriously, choice of input concerns the way the amp's front end see the loading of the guitar pickups - experiment with both inputs and see if you hear a preference and feel a difference in how the guitar handles and responds as you play.
    very interesting post

  30. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by jzucker
    who?
    all of you

  31. #30

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    Some years ago I bought several Russian 6P3S tubes in matched quads and duos. They are still in my Twin and my Blues Deluxe because unlike all other tubes I tried in there (Sovtek, JJ, Tung Sol) they seem to last forever. I know the Reflektor factory in Saratov made these, but I don't know if other factories did too. Mine are branded "Haltron" but I am pretty sure that's just a rebrander. They sound good too.

    I have no clue how old these Haltrons are.... but I think there is a good chance they are from the 70ies or 80ies because during the cold war they were made in huge quantities for the Russian army. No clue if they are NOS or OOS either...

    The 6P3S is still cheap enought to gamble a bit with and buy several of them. Especially if you have an old tube tester, so you can make your own matched sets.

  32. #31

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    I'm currently using TAD blackplate 6L6WGC in my twin.
    It's a "blackfaced" 75 silverface.

    At the moment I use only two output tubes (most sources on the internet recommend that you disconnect one of the speakers to impedance match, but I use both speakers and run it with a 2:1 impedance mismatch which tube amps can handle).

    The EQ settings I use on the vibrato channel are usually somewhere around:
    Tre:6-7,
    mid is often around 4-5 but I sometimes increase it for a more "middy" tone
    bass is often around 1-2,5. I dial in a bit more bass for single coil guitars compared to humbuckers.

  33. #32
    My trusty tech repairman with 50 years experience uses JJ s and they work fine.

  34. #33

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    Boutique manufacture seems unlikely to develop. Here is a film about Mullard valves.