The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #51

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    I like to play my short scale guitar.I am old!

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronjazz
    I would posit that Mary might have an even easier time if she didn't play a guitar that large. In any event, the wrong size guitar has been the cause of an awful lot of physical problems for a lot of players for a long time. To use her utilization of that guitar as an object lesson may be unwise. And anybody experiencing shoulder or back pain may want to experiment with different body sizes, shapes, depths and/or weights. I was very attached to my L5 until I played several smaller guitars that made the gigs much easier and less painful.
    As I said in another post higher up this thread, it's also a question of the position of the guitar. By angling the guitar somewhat, a much more relaxed body position can be had. Look at the following two pictures. If I held the guitar like Mary Halvorsen does, I'd have serious joint and ligament issues both in the neck, right shoulder and arm. In addition, the left hand fingering a stretched chord with the wrist joint in its outermost position also begs for longer term problems. Freddie Green on the other hand (the high string action and even bigger guitar size nonwithstanding) is sitting relaxed and looks like he could sit that way for hours - which he actually often had to. The key here is getting the lower bass bout away from the right armpit - either by choosing a smaller and less deep guitar or by angling the guitar body somewhat away from a vertical position so the right arm is resting on the guitar instead of curling around it in an cramped way. Maybe that explains why Green could carry on full time in the Basie band right up to his death 75 years old (he died of a heart attack in the intermission between two sets of a gig in Las Vegas).


    Don't complain that the guitar is too big for you-mary-halvorsen-png

    Don't complain that the guitar is too big for you-freddie-green-jpg
    Last edited by oldane; 04-09-2021 at 08:13 AM.

  4. #53

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    "Each atom of that stone, each mineral flake of that night-filled mountain, in itself, forms a world. The struggle itself toward the heights is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy."

  5. #54

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    I'm on a seefood diet myself. I see food and I eat it. My wife seems terrified that I will starve, so she keeps on serving me huge portions, and cooking enough for about 6 people. I can't change that, so I have to eat less on my own. It is possible to have worse problems.

  6. #55

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    This guitar is too small:

  7. #56

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  8. #57

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    Well, Jazzers are strange canaries, indeed! That's a given. In the Classical world, a guitar must fit a person's body type. Young students usually start with a 1/2 or 3/4 guitar and work up to a full size instrument when appropriate. Hand size also matters. That's why there are 660, 650, and 640 mm Classical guitars. A student or professional should never struggle with an instrument since it will impede both progress, sound as well as desire to play. So, just because you want to play a full-size archtop, it may not be the best instrument for you. If your goal is musicianship . . . not image, you need to get a guitar that fits your hands and body. My brother was gifted a 3/4 EG(Teisco?) when he was 10 with good action and easy to play. I was playing a Kay triple pickup Value Leader with action so high you needed a C Clamp for the strings. I never liked that guitar and didn't know that the action could be adjusted. I often wonder how many more hours I would have played with a better adjusted guitar. However, I played many gigs with that instrument until I bought my first Gibson. So, yes . . . size matters. You want to look hip or play hip?
    Play live . . . Marinero

  9. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by kris
    This guitar is too small:
    Folks were tiny back then!

  10. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
    Folks were tiny back then!
    Yea, BDLH,
    And, they liked reverb!
    Play live . . . Marinero

  11. #60

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    But this little guitar sounds great!

  12. #61

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    My dad was an outdoors man... think Daniel Boone here. He wouldn't get lost in the Adirondack mountains and could survive a major snow / ice storm, and likely come out of it gaining weight.

    Anyway, when I was young (age unknown but preteen for sure) my dad pulled me aside and said "We need to have a chat" I grew up in the burbs of New York and already knew about the birds and the bees and told pop that. He said it's not about THAT!

    He said: "Son, you're of a small stature AND left handed and in a man's you're F'ked, so here's what you need to know... In your lifetime you're gonna have to learn to use the tools of a larger right handed man to get along in the world... or, you can stay at home with your mom when I go hunting, golfing or fishing because you're not getting custom made tools".

    In the 1950's left handed anything was rare, and expensive, and, I learned to do most everything right handed and never crabbed about the size / handedness of a tool, any tool for any purpose.

    Just sayin' :-)

  13. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by GNAPPI
    My dad was an outdoors man... think Daniel Boone here. He wouldn't get lost in the Adirondack mountains and could survive a major snow / ice storm, and likely come out of it gaining weight.

    Anyway, when I was young (age unknown but preteen for sure) my dad pulled me aside and said "We need to have a chat" I grew up in the burbs of New York and already knew about the birds and the bees and told pop that. He said it's not about THAT!

    He said: "Son, you're of a small stature AND left handed and in a man's you're F'ked, so here's what you need to know... In your lifetime you're gonna have to learn to use the tools of a larger right handed man to get along in the world... or, you can stay at home with your mom when I go hunting, golfing or fishing because you're not getting custom made tools".

    In the 1950's left handed anything was rare, and expensive, and, I learned to do most everything right handed and never crabbed about the size / handedness of a tool, any tool for any purpose.

    Just sayin' :-)
    my old man grew up in the 40s and 50s (on a different continent) and his mom sat him down one day and told him the about same thing. i didn't even know he was left handed until he told me a last year when he related this story to me. there are a few things he still does lefty on occasion, but he's been a righty as long as i've known him. congrats to both of you, i guess.

  14. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by GNAPPI
    My dad was an outdoors man... think Daniel Boone here. He wouldn't get lost in the Adirondack mountains and could survive a major snow / ice storm, and likely come out of it gaining weight.

    Anyway, when I was young (age unknown but preteen for sure) my dad pulled me aside and said "We need to have a chat" I grew up in the burbs of New York and already knew about the birds and the bees and told pop that. He said it's not about THAT!

    He said: "Son, you're of a small stature AND left handed and in a man's you're F'ked, so here's what you need to know... In your lifetime you're gonna have to learn to use the tools of a larger right handed man to get along in the world... or, you can stay at home with your mom when I go hunting, golfing or fishing because you're not getting custom made tools".

    In the 1950's left handed anything was rare, and expensive, and, I learned to do most everything right handed and never crabbed about the size / handedness of a tool, any tool for any purpose.

    Just sayin' :-)
    Hi, G,
    Nice story! However, gaining functional utility is a far lesser skill than mastery. And, as our old friend Hamlet said "Aye, there's the rub." Play live . . . Marinero

  15. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by oldane
    As I said in another post higher up this thread, it's also a question of the position of the guitar. By angling the guitar somewhat, a much more relaxed body position can be had. Look at the following two pictures. If I held the guitar like Mary Halvorsen does, I'd have serious joint and ligament issues both in the neck, right shoulder and arm. In addition, the left hand fingering a stretched chord with the wrist joint in its outermost position also begs for longer term problems. Freddie Green on the other hand (the high string action and even bigger guitar size nonwithstanding) is sitting relaxed and looks like he could sit that way for hours - which he actually often had to. The key here is getting the lower bass bout away from the right armpit - either by choosing a smaller and less deep guitar or by angling the guitar body somewhat away from a vertical position so the right arm is resting on the guitar instead of curling around it in an cramped way. Maybe that explains why Green could carry on full time in the Basie band right up to his death 75 years old (he died of a heart attack in the intermission between two sets of a gig in Las Vegas).
    Freddy was pretty tall.

  16. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marinero
    Hi, G,
    Nice story! However, gaining functional utility is a far lesser skill than mastery.>>SNIP<<
    I disagree.

    IMO, we learn to use the tools we have regardless the form they present themselves to us, overcoming the form is at issue. Why are there (for the most part) one size violin... big, small, female or male most use that tiny instrument, the same goes for inherently larger instruments like say the piano, tuba, or cello. Are some gifted with larger hands, or bodies that match their instrument better? Sure. Does that make everyone who plays them the same stature? Not at all.

    Guitars are the one instrument that players whine, complain, crab and moan over subtleties more than any other standardized instrument. Gads, if men were this rigidly selective in women the planet would depopulate in a generation :-)

  17. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by GNAPPI
    I disagree.

    IMO, we learn to use the tools we have regardless the form they present themselves to us, overcoming the form is at issue. Why are there (for the most part) one size violin... big, small, female or male most use that tiny instrument, the same goes for inherently larger instruments like say the piano, tuba, or cello. Are some gifted with larger hands, or bodies that match their instrument better? Sure. Does that make everyone who plays them the same stature? Not at all.

    Guitars are the one instrument that players whine, complain, crab and moan over subtleties more than any other standardized instrument. Gads, if men were this rigidly selective in women the planet would depopulate in a generation :-)
    Hi, G,
    I have the ability to learn any musical instrument to functionality. However, my hands are thick and I could never play the picolo, violin, or ukelele, for example, at an artist level. My hands are too big. Many small stature people(small lungs) try to play the baritone/tenor sax and have a weak/uncontrolled sound where if they chose an alto/soprano, or clarinet, they could have a much better sound. So, I'm referring to highly functional musicians/artists when I state these facts. Anyone can play an instrument poorly. The world and Youtube is full of them. Play live . . . Marinero

  18. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by GNAPPI
    I disagree.

    IMO, we learn to use the tools we have regardless the form they present themselves to us, overcoming the form is at issue. Why are there (for the most part) one size violin... big, small, female or male most use that tiny instrument, the same goes for inherently larger instruments like say the piano, tuba, or cello. Are some gifted with larger hands, or bodies that match their instrument better? Sure. Does that make everyone who plays them the same stature? Not at all.

    Guitars are the one instrument that players whine, complain, crab and moan over subtleties more than any other standardized instrument. Gads, if men were this rigidly selective in women the planet would depopulate in a generation :-)
    I think it's at least in part because so many guitar players begin as self-taught and develop a lot of very bad habits that create limitations and problems years later. I know I certainly did but some of those things have become so ingrained in my playing that I'm not willing to give them up.
    Last edited by Jim Soloway; 04-10-2021 at 12:23 PM.

  19. #68

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    << [...] my hands are thick and I could never play the picolo, violin, or ukelele, for example, at an artist level. My hands are too big. Many small stature people(small lungs) try to play the baritone/tenor sax and have a weak/uncontrolled sound where if they chose an alto/soprano, or clarinet, they could have a much better sound. >>


    Excuse me, there is no scientific or empirical evidence at all in the world of "highly functional musicians/artists" for such statements - just individual opinion!
    In the violin world some of the greatest performers were known to have sausage digits.
    In the baritone/tenor saxophone world a small stature has nothing at all to do with "having a weak/uncontrolled sound".
    Medically, small stature doesn't correlate by default with having small lungs.

    Sadly, we face more symptoms of
    bias, small-world-thinking, subjective sensivities, beating_around_the_ bush, and even resounding ignorance lately in this forum. Sorry, gents (to those concerned), real class is a horse of a different color - not worth to follow some threads any longer!

  20. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Sound
    That's either a fabulous dream, or a bad nightmare. I can't decide.
    Here, let me help you.


  21. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Sound
    Depends on if you hold it "in the elbow" or "over the elbow." In either case, a recipe for shoulder joint problems down the road.
    What do these phrases mean? Never heard them and I am curious.
    Last edited by Paulie2; 04-11-2021 at 02:26 PM.

  22. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ol' Fret
    << [...] my hands are thick and I could never play the picolo, violin, or ukelele, for example, at an artist level. My hands are too big. Many small stature people(small lungs) try to play the baritone/tenor sax and have a weak/uncontrolled sound where if they chose an alto/soprano, or clarinet, they could have a much better sound. >>


    Excuse me, there is no scientific or empirical evidence at all in the world of "highly functional musicians/artists" for such statements - just individual opinion!
    In the violin world some of the greatest performers were known to have sausage digits.
    In the baritone/tenor saxophone world a small stature has nothing at all to do with "having a weak/uncontrolled sound".
    Medically, small stature doesn't correlate by default with having small lungs.



    Sadly, we face more symptoms of
    bias, small-world-thinking, subjective sensivities, beating_around_the_ bush, and even resounding ignorance lately in this forum. Sorry, gents (to those concerned), real class is a horse of a different color - not worth to follow some threads any longer!

    O.K. OF, I'll play . . .
    1. What "great" violinists have sausage digits? Name one.
    2. How many small men play Baritone/Tenor sax with a big sound? I only know two: Pepper Adams-
    Baritone;Johnny Griffin-Tenor sax. Very rare in the sax world for great players.
    3. "
    Medically, small stature doesn't correlate by default with having small lungs." So, there is no such thing as symmetry among Homo Sapiens? You must be spending too much time at carnivals.
    4. These "woke" lectures are always created to shut down debate. They also want to rewrite History, Biology,
    Economics, etc., and anything they can get their politically correct hands onto to change reality into their unsupported views without debate.
    5. And, why run and hide . . .Ol' Fret? I would like to be enlightened by your phantasmagorical concept of
    the natural world. C'mon, friend . . . take a deep breath. I know you can do it!

    Play live . . . with thick hands . . . Marinero


  23. #72

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    Mary can play whatever she wants to and I will play whatever I want to. I'm 60. I work out. I can schlepp around a Fender Twin Reverb and it doesn't bother me. But with guitars, for me, ergonomics is key. I can play a 17" jazz box but I play it in the classical style. My go to now is a small bodied, 12 fret acoustic with a cutaway. Very comfy.

  24. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by ronjazz
    Freddy was pretty tall.
    So am I, likely taller than Freddie was, and I have a long torso. But still, my 18.5"/3.25" Triggs is awkward for me to play in a vertical position. Tilt it 45 degrees and everything is fine.
    Last edited by oldane; 04-12-2021 at 09:02 AM.

  25. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marinero
    O.K. OF, I'll play . . .

    2. How many small men play Baritone/Tenor sax with a big sound? I only know two: Pepper Adams-
    Baritone;Johnny Griffin-Tenor sax. Very rare in the sax world for great players.
    I may be nitpicking, but having played tenor sax years ago, I like to say that there are more variables to a big sound on saxophone than body size and lung capacity. The instrument set up is very important. For almost 20 years, Dexter Gordon used a Conn sax with a Dukoff metal mouthpiece with a tip opening that would be considered shallow nowadays until the theft of the instrument forced him to start over around 1965 with a Selmer sax and a Link mouthpiece with greater opening. Nevertheless, many find Gordons tone with the Conn/Dukoff combo to be his "biggest" through the years - and certainly big compared to most other sax players. Gordon himself said that the Dukoff mouthpiece was "so easy blowing". Another thing is the reed strength - the harder the reed the harder it is to play. Combine the mouthpiece characteristics with the reed strength and you got a very varied range of sounds at a very varied range of energy expenditure. Stan Getz played a rather close faced mouthpiece with a very hard reed, and that setup was very demanding physically to play. Johnny Griffin - whom you mention - used a more open mouthpiece with (if one can judge by his sound) a quite soft reed. A third factor is the embouchure which can be tight or relaxed or anything in between. John Coltrane used a tight embouchure to get his characteristic "pinched" sound. A sound with a lot of treble overtones ("sharp tone") appears bigger - projects better - than a sound with fewer of these overtones ("soft tone"). Think Johnny Griffin vs. Stan Getz. Getz actually had a big - but soft - tone.

  26. #75

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    Itzhak Perlman has big hands. The Strad. But he is unusual.