The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Musgo Real
    Well I can move the E1 side of the bridge also that high like the E6 side, but getting a string action for E1 higher than 2 mm / 0,0787, as it is at the moment. But cannot go lower with the side for the bass strings.
    Ok my understanding is, with the bass side of the saddles very high, you're getting an even action, right? That is 2mm on the treble side, 2.5 on the bass?
    So I don't understand how else this is possible if the neck is not in rotation with respect to the body?

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  3. #27

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    How was it before the neck reset? Even if the top were sunken on the bass side, it wouldn't have happened overnight.

  4. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175
    Ok my understanding is, with the bass side of the saddles very high, you're getting an even action, right? That is 2mm on the treble side, 2.5 on the bass?
    So I don't understand how else this is possible if the neck is not in rotation with respect to the body?
    1) Yes.
    2) I don´t know.

    In the meantime I have turned the wheel of the bridge`s side for the bright strings to the same hight as the bass side. Having an action of 2,5 mm on both sides now. Intonation is better than before on the bright strings.
    I will try now to lower both sides until that buzzing on the lower frets is starting again.

    O.k, I cannot go lower than 2,5 mm on the bass side of the bridge, otherwise the buzzing starts again beginning at 13th fret.

  5. #29

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    Deacon is correct. Find a competent luthier! Too much guessing going on here IMHO. Good luck.

  6. #30

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    was the bridge tilted like that before the reset?
    if so the neck might be twisted. the reset does like steep, but not ridiculously so. the saddle is notched for the thumbwheels, if it weren't the tilt would obviously still be there but the bridge wouldn't appear to be too tall.

    I have a couple of very old archtops that have a tilt like that as a result of a neck twist, but they're set up very well and the tilt is a non issue.

  7. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by skykomishone
    Deacon is correct. Find a competent luthier! Too much guessing going on here IMHO. Good luck.
    Today I was at a different luthier but there is no possibility of doing a new neck reset because the first luthier used Epoxy, even I asked him to glue the neck. Todays luthier told me he cannot do a new reset without destroying parts of the body. He won´t do that job. I have to life with the result.

  8. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by wintermoon
    was the bridge tilted like that before the reset?
    if so the neck might be twisted. the reset does like steep, but not ridiculously so. the saddle is notched for the thumbwheels, if it weren't the tilt would obviously still be there but the bridge wouldn't appear to be too tall.

    I have a couple of very old archtops that have a tilt like that as a result of a neck twist, but they're set up very well and the tilt is a non issue.
    I don´t know. The necks bottom of it´s end towards the body was touching the body´s surface. String action at 12th fret was E6 = close to 5 mm and E1 = around 4 mm. Bridge was on its lowest hight. Sound was poor. Probably because of the missing contact of neck and body. Because the first luthier used Epoxy, there is no chance to do a new neck reset. That was the comment of the second luthier I visited today.

  9. #33

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    In any case, if it bothers you the neck can be corrected by leveling the fretboard to accommodate the sideways angle. I don't mean leveling just the fretwires but the actual fretboard itself. ie by sanding the bass side down wrt the treble side in combination with levelling the fretwires with a similar angle.
    This is a common thing luthiers do to old guitars with warped necks. It's much easier than resetting the neck given the status of the last repair. But doing this kind of repair certainly requires experience.

    On the other hand, as long as the guitar can be set up with good intonation and action, the slightly higher saddles on the bass side my not matter.
    Last edited by Tal_175; 04-01-2021 at 01:35 PM.

  10. #34

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    Oh mine he used epoxy to glue a neck? Unbelievable glue to use in a neck reset. Never is a long time but necks are glued with titebond or hide glue. I prefer titebond gives more working time.

    After using epoxy only thing left is dealing with it by using other avenues of control. The frets, fingerboard and bridge can all be tailored to get a useable result. Archtops are forgiving in this respect so you are actually ok. My guess is it can be set up to play fine. It could possibly look a bit odd after but play fine.

  11. #35

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    I have a guitar that has a nearly identical bridge angle, however mine plays fine all along the neck. Until it plays poorly I'm just letting it be.

  12. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by deacon Mark
    Oh mine he used epoxy to glue a neck? Unbelievable glue to use in a neck reset. Never is a long time but necks are glued with titebond or hide glue. I prefer titebond gives more working time.

    After using epoxy only thing left is dealing with it by using other avenues of control. The frets, fingerboard and bridge can all be tailored to get a useable result. Archtops are forgiving in this respect so you are actually ok. My guess is it can be set up to play fine. It could possibly look a bit odd after but play fine.
    Indeed he used Epoxy... when I asked him to glue the neck I did not mean Epoxy, it was his own decision to do so without asking me. In German there is a verb called "verleimen" which includes the noun, but I cannot find a better translation than glue for it. I think it is the same or identical with tidebond. I won´t do a tailoring of the fingerboard etc...I also don´t got the money to do so. I have to try my luck experimenting with more neck relief. Probably that will help to get the bridge a little lower, hopefully resulting to a lower string action without buzzing on any frets.

  13. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by BiscoDrew
    I have a guitar that has a nearly identical bridge angle, however mine plays fine all along the neck. Until it plays poorly I'm just letting it be.
    What is your string action at the 12th fret on both E´s? The hight of my bridge is messured from surface of the body to its highest top 3 cm wich are 1,1811.

  14. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Musgo Real
    Today I was at a different luthier but there is no possibility of doing a new neck reset because the first luthier used Epoxy, even I asked him to glue the neck. Todays luthier told me he cannot do a new reset without destroying parts of the body. He won´t do that job. I have to life with the result.
    So the luthier who did the neck reset was not all that competent. Epoxy? WTF? I am sorry to hear that. However, 2 to 2.5 mm action at the 12th fret is very reasonable in my opinion. Having the second luthier check the setup (nut height, relief, etc.) and whether fret leveling and crowning is necessary might help. Sometimes there is a hump where the fingerboard sits over the neck joint. It looks like the bridge saddle has more radius than the fingerboard, judging by the varying depth of the string slots, so that might be worth checking with a radius gauge. I suspect the issues are too subtle to be seen in photos on the web.

  15. #39

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    I had an archtop that was exactly like that. The action was great and it played perfectly, but the bridge had to be tilted higher on the bass side. I was never quite sure if the neck was set with a tilt or if the top’s arch was not symmetrical, or maybe both. I never noticed it at first, so it’s also possible that the bass side of the top sagged a bit over time. Any of these factors could cause this type of anomaly. In my case, it didn’t affect the playability at all. So, unless you are concerned with how it looks, it probably isn’t a huge issue. I was not happy with the way it looked so I eventually let the guitar go. Ever since then, I always check for that issue if I am buying a guitar. I prefer to see a saddle sitting fairly level over the base.
    Keith

  16. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by floatingpickup
    I had an archtop that was exactly like that. The action was great and it played perfectly, but the bridge had to be tilted higher on the bass side. I was never quite sure if the neck was set with a tilt or if the top’s arch was not symmetrical, or maybe both. I never noticed it at first, so it’s also possible that the bass side of the top sagged a bit over time. Any of these factors could cause this type of anomaly. In my case, it didn’t affect the playability at all. So, unless you are concerned with how it looks, it probably isn’t a huge issue. I was not happy with the way it looked so I eventually let the guitar go. Ever since then, I always check for that issue if I am buying a guitar. I prefer to see a saddle sitting fairly level over the base.
    Keith
    Two of my Gibson archtops have a slight tilt on the treble side of the bridge (not as severe as the tilt in this post to be sure). I assume that there is either a slight twist in the neck or a slightly lower side of the top of some sort in those two guitars, but they play great and have had no issues over the years, so it is a non-issue for me.

    As with women (or men if you are female), looking for perfection in a guitar will mostly lead to a life of disappointment.

  17. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stringswinger
    As with women (or men if you are female), looking for perfection in a guitar will mostly lead to a life of disappointment.
    Oh how I love that statement! You should get it copyrighted!

  18. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stringswinger
    Two of my Gibson archtops have a slight tilt on the treble side of the bridge (not as severe as the tilt in this post to be sure). I assume that there is either a slight twist in the neck or a slightly lower side of the top of some sort in those two guitars, but they play great and have had no issues over the years, so it is a non-issue for me.

    As with women (or men if you are female), looking for perfection in a guitar will mostly lead to a life of disappointment.
    Good point. Every instrument has its own quirks. A slight tilt that doesn’t affect playability is really nothing to worry about. The tilt on mine seemed to be a little more than normal though. I just decided to move that one out and buy something else that was a little closer to perfection.
    Keith

  19. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Musgo Real
    What is your string action at the 12th fret on both E´s? The hight of my bridge is messured from surface of the body to its highest top 3 cm wich are 1,1811.
    I'll check and get back to you. Someone mentioned sag in the arch. I think that's the case with mine.

  20. #44

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    Im approx 1.8 at the low E, almost 3 at the high E. Maybe closer to 2.8. Eyeballing- I can't find my feeler gauges.

  21. #45

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    What is your opinion?-q3-jpgWhat is your opinion?-q6-jpg

  22. #46

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    Thanks to everyone for their input.

    Today I have sent an inquiry to the second luthier I was after the neck reset, asking what he wants for checking the fret wires. Good thing in the end, the guitar sounds very pleasant and warm, doesn´t got that very bright sound you hear often on other vintage Hofner acoustic archtops on youtube. I tested the guitar, which is loaded with a set of 12th gauge Thomastik Bebop strings at the moment, with 20 plecs all in different size and strength (thickness? Sorry, English is not my native language) and found my happiness with Fender`s Moto heavy - 351 shape. Now I am waiting for a set of 12th Soft Brass strings by Philippe Bosset. Rob MacKillop`s video on youtube inspired me to give them a try.
    Last edited by Musgo Real; 04-03-2021 at 12:00 PM.

  23. #47

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    I have an archtop which has the neck at a slight angle, not quite parallel to the body. It's only noticeable if you look closely from the tailpiece end of the body, or at the bridge, which is higher on one end when set properly. Otherwise the neck is perfect, action is ~1mm at the 12th fret on the treble E. It plays very well, and to me it's a non-issue.

    If the strings are buzzing when fretted at the lower frets, then IME the frets need leveling, the trussrod needs adjusting, or both. That is fixable without a neck reset.

  24. #48

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    I recently purchased a 2015 ‘59 VOS ES-175. When it arrived the action was higher than I liked and the bridge was high up on the adjustment wheels. I took it to Rainbow Guitars (Tucson) and they told me the neck was fine but it needed the frets leveled and dressed. They did that (and installed a bone nut). I had them fit the nut for round-wound TI Jazz Bebop 13’s and she is now spectacular.