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  1. #1

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    The tubescreamer works well for some stuff but I feel I want something a little creamier for more legato/horn like sounds.

    Any recommendations? Doesn’t have to be fancy.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Maybe something in the Klon clone vein? I have both a Wampler Tumnus and an Electro-harmonix Soul Food. There are lots of video demos on Klon styled pedals. The Soul Food probably isn’t as faithful, but is an absolutely great pedal for the price.

  4. #3

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    Mike stern uses a boss ds-1 and a boss bd-2 waza craft. I have both. They are excellent pedals.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  5. #4

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    These days the simulators even seem to be a good idea.

  6. #5

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    I think you'll want to look into "dumble style" overdrives, and that's a rabbit hole. Basically, thick overdrives that retain clarity, and have a smooth attack. I've been through a boatload of them. Honestly, they are all good... many use the word "dumble" in their description, but don't let that throw you off... it's really just a word that is now used for that style of overdrive. I'll give you a list of ones I've owned, and some have very cheap 100% clones, which I have also owned.

    Zendrive (Joyo Taichi is a 100% clone)
    BB Preamp (joyo Zip Amp is a 100% clone, and I think this is a REALLY good one)
    Rockett the Dude
    Barber Small Fry
    ...honeslty, I've been through so many, I can't even remember. On the cheap, that Joyo Zip Amp is actually pretty awesome. I currently have the Dude on my board, filling this role.

    the Plimsoul is another one of these, but I've never owned that one. Mad Professor Simble/Twimble (too bright for me, despite demo videos)

    the BB Preamp/Joyo Zip Amp is a fine place to start, to see if you're even barking up the right tree. You can't go wrong with a Dude however. If you have questions about any pedal specifically, just ask, I've owned alot of these fusion/Dumble pedals over the years.

    Actually- I have one for sale right now in the emporium here, a Gtown Amps HolyGrail. It's a good one too, I just personally prefer the Dude better with my amps.

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by dlew919
    Mike stern uses a boss ds-1 and a boss bd-2 waza craft. I have both. They are excellent pedals.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Well I have a ds1, which is currently in the naughty corner. Maybe I can give it another try. I do find it dreadfully fizzy though.

  8. #7

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    Maybe it’s just the demos but The Dude sounds a bit NWOBHM to me....

    might help if I’m more specific. I want a smooth Holdsworth style overdrive. I think this drive was actually not that heavy; I understand Alan preferred to overdrive amps rather than use a pedal.

    So I’m thinking Klon style transparent overdrives might be a good idea.

  9. #8

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    I sometimes use a Behringer Vintage Tube Monster Overdrive for that stuff. It uses a tube (12ax7 I think?!), and you can alter the sound a lot by swapping that one out. It's kinda cheap by the way. I think i paid less then 50€.

    I recorded this tune with that pedal:

    [ES-335 Style Guitar>Behringer>Fender Bassman]
    I know the tune is not too guitar-centric, but it might still give you an idea of the pedal in a Jazz-context

    Paul

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Maybe it’s just the demos but The Dude sounds a bit NWOBHM to me....

    might help if I’m more specific. I want a smooth Holdsworth style overdrive. I think this drive was actually not that heavy; I understand Alan preferred to overdrive amps rather than use a pedal.

    So I’m thinking Klon style transparent overdrives might be a good idea.
    What does NWOBHM mean? Nevermind, I googled. I don't use the Dude anything like that. It's simply a great, thick, easy to dial in, overdrive. It can turn a little PRRI into a Marshall. It's a great "dirty channel" pedal. It's great on a bridge pickup for RAWK, and great on a neck pickup for a more fusion-y thing, which is how I use it.

    I have a Klone- it's a great OD for certain things, but fusion isn't one of them, IMO.

    You could always try to find one of these:
    ALLAN HOLDSWORTH OVERDRIVE / BOOST (Retired) – J. Rockett Audio Designs

    What’s a nice drive for fusion?-jpg

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Webby
    I sometimes use a Behringer Vintage Tube Monster Overdrive for that stuff. It uses a tube (12ax7 I think?!), and you can alter the sound a lot by swapping that one out. It's kinda cheap by the way. I think i paid less then 50€.

    I recorded this tune with that pedal:

    [ES-335 Style Guitar>Behringer>Fender Bassman]
    I know the tune is not too guitar-centric, but it might still give you an idea of the pedal in a Jazz-context

    Paul
    Forgot to add: you should skip some Minutes on that link. The Song doesn't really Start until about 3 Minutes in.

  12. #11

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    I’m also aware that trying to get this sound with a Tele may also be a fools errand.

    TBH I think I’ll be happy with anything recommended above.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by ruger9
    What does NWOBHM mean? Nevermind, I googled. I don't use the Dude anything like that. It's simply a great, thick, easy to dial in, overdrive. It can turn a little PRRI into a Marshall. It's a great "dirty channel" pedal. It's great on a bridge pickup for RAWK, and great on a neck pickup for a more fusion-y thing, which is how I use it.

    I have a Klone- it's a great OD for certain things, but fusion isn't one of them, IMO.

    You could always try to find one of these:
    ALLAN HOLDSWORTH OVERDRIVE / BOOST (Retired) – J. Rockett Audio Designs

    What’s a nice drive for fusion?-jpg
    OK I’ll give it a go.

  14. #13

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    NWOBHM was the classic raging Marshall sound.

    But i ordered one anyway and we’ll see if it’ll get me close to what I want.

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    NWOBHM was the classic raging Marshall sound.

    But i ordered one anyway and we’ll see if it’ll get me close to what I want.
    Ordered which? The Dude? I know the Holdsworth pedal is discontinued...

  16. #15

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    Your pedal is the Maxon SD9. Best for fusion style and legato playing. Scott Henderson main pedal for that kind of things.

  17. #16

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    The Mad Professor Simble is actually a very cool pedal, if you’re into Dumble-style sound:



    Obviously no affiliation!


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by ruger9
    Ordered which? The Dude? I know the Holdsworth pedal is discontinued...
    The Dude. Looks versatile.

  19. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by xavierbarcelo
    The Mad Professor Simble is actually a very cool pedal, if you’re into Dumble-style sound:



    Obviously no affiliation!


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
    The Simble and Twimble both sounded great in the demos, but when I got a Twimble, it was far too bright for me to do anything with it. The guy that demos those pedals- Marko Karhu, makes everything sound amazing.

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by xavierbarcelo
    The Mad Professor Simble is actually a very cool pedal, if you’re into Dumble-style sound:



    Obviously no affiliation!


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
    I have one and I concur.

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    The tubescreamer works well for some stuff but I feel I want something a little creamier for more legato/horn like sounds.

    Any recommendations? Doesn’t have to be fancy.
    I've been searching for an embeddable image for some time, now, alas! with no results. May I strongly recommend the Danelectro Daddy-O overdrive. It has a well-voiced three-band EQ section for wide-ranging tone to taste, as well as a very tube-toned gain control. You can craft some very fine tones with this, from subtle throb to raging stackitosoty with the twist of a knob or four. Very sturdily built, its hefty metal case is nigh indestructible and doesn't take up many square inches on the floor or your pedalboard, if you have one. Thick, creamy mids on demand! Turn your Princeton* Charming into a Dumble-esque dragon at the press of a switch.

    Seriously, this is a great overdrive and rivals the best of my amps for tone - I've got a Brownface Vibroverb and a 50 watt Plexi, not to mention a wide-panel Tweed Deluxe with a field-coil speaker, to mention only three amps for comparison, and believe me, this is a whole lotta real close in a lot less space/weight.

    In my humble opinion, well worth the time/money to find out.

    * My DRRI just eats this up.

  22. #21

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    Fulltone OCD is my go-to. It's hard to describe these things, but I find it less gritty sounding than either a TS or a Zendrive, with a bigger range of gain.

    John

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by John A.
    Fulltone OCD is my go-to. It's hard to describe these things, but I find it less gritty sounding than either a TS or a Zendrive, with a bigger range of gain.

    John
    See, that's funny, because when I had an OCD, I thought it was very gritty- anything but smooth LOL.

  24. #23

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    Considerations are what amp are you playing. Do you start with a totally Clean tone or Semi Overdriven tone a la Scofield?

    I've been down this rabbit hole for years, and here a re a couple I really like
    They are somewhat different from each other.

    1.) Jetter Red Shift or Red Squared
    2.) Strymon Sunset
    3.) Lovepedal Eternity Burst
    4.) Barber Gain Changer
    5.) One Pedals Strawberry Overdrive, Persian Green Screamer
    6.) JH S Andy Timmons overdrive

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by jads57
    Considerations are what amp are you playing. Do you start with a totally Clean tone or Semi Overdriven tone a la Scofield?

    I've been down this rabbit hole for years, and here a re a couple I really like
    They are somewhat different from each other.

    1.) Jetter Red Shift or Red Squared
    2.) Strymon Sunset
    3.) Lovepedal Eternity Burst
    4.) Barber Gain Changer
    5.) One Pedals Strawberry Overdrive, Persian Green Screamer
    6.) JH S Andy Timmons overdrive
    I have a Barber Small Fry, it's not bad at all. I used to have the JHS Timmons, but to me that's a little more hot-rodded Marshall. I guess if you turned the gain down, and messed with the compression switch, you could get a good fusion-y tone out of it. I now have the JHS Angry Charlie v3, I prefer it for it's expanded EQ section.

    I tried one of the Jetters, the GS124 I think, and I found it way too compressed for me.

    The truth is, alot of these pedals, including a plain old TS9, could do the trick. Beyond that, you're getting into nuances, really. But it's fun buying/trying/comparing new stuff.

  26. #25

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    It the price doesn't bother you or you can find one used .. How about the Tom Quayle one ... I mean ffs .. It's even called the Dual Fusion


  27. #26

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    I bought the Dude because I like the writing on it

    Evaluation to follow when it arrives

  28. #27

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    A humbucker equiped guitar is probably an easier place to start. Maybe a guitar + overdrive search would double the fun. Klon style drives can get the sound with their tone control. I dropped a Hot Rails pickup in a Strat once and was surprised that it sounded like a full size humbucker, the down side is it no longer had the single coil bridge sound, even with a split the tone changed.

  29. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    I bought the Dude because I like the writing on it

    Evaluation to follow when it arrives
    Had to google it .. Dear God?




    But more seriously .. Give us a 1-2 line review once you've evaluated

  30. #29

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    Again finding an overdrive pedal that works is amp and pickup dependent ax well.
    I always like a Clean Scream as I call it. That's what Dumbles and great amps do when pushed power tubes come in to play.

    That's really hard to achieve with pedals, but can be done with the right setup.
    Really it comes down to what inspires you and the room also plays into that also!

  31. #30

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    I have a Dude v2. I think it does a good job at mid/high gain fusion style tones. Of course, a lot always depends on guitar, pups, amps, speakers, volume, etc.

    A lot of guys will use marshall-style amps/cabs with a fair amount of amp breakup and use something like a SD-9 or TS to push the front-end into overdrive, i.e. what those sorts of pedals were originally designed to do. Scott Henderson does this. If you try to use the same technique into a squeaky BF style it just won't work the same.

    I always use clean amps. In terms of "D-Style" pedals I also have a MP Simble, Xotic Soul Driven, red dot Zendrive, BB Preamp, MP Royal Blue, Demon Pedals Kondo Shifuku and Jetter Monster. I also have many, many, many distortion, TS style, fuzz of various flavors, etc. It's the result of 37 years of pedal collecting

    Amps are:
    • Fender Princeton RI w/ Jensen c10q
    • Fender Deluxe RI w/ Jensen c12q
    • 5e3 clone w/ Jensen c12r


    Amps are always set clean, no overdrive at all.

    Guitars are:
    • Fender BP Tele w/ Texas Special in the neck and Tex-Mex in the bridge
    • Fender Road Worn Tele w/ Fralin 2% overwind neck and a Fender '51 bridge
    • Eastman Romeo w/ Fralin p92 neck and Lollar Imperial bridge


    I usually keep the vol/tone controls all the way up.

    I set the Dude like:
    • level - 12:00, ie just above unity gain
    • ratio - 11/11:30ish
    • treble - 11:00
    • deep - 1:00


    The Dude is very filtered, i.e. it chops off quite a bit of the airy top end, which helps give the perception of "smooth-ness". It's also very, very compressed. The deep control is kinda like a backwards Big Muff tone control, once you get it past 12:00 it starts to really pull up a thick midrange and bottom. The "tooth" of the distortion is very close, unlike, say, a Zendrive which is more ragged, or a TS which is "looser". I do find it possesses an upper-mid or lower treble spike which can't be dialed out. Sometimes I like it, sometimes I don't. It took me a while to find a couple of sweet spots that work for me, so give it some time!

    I tend to use the bridge pup with it, though it does work ok on the neck.

    The other drive I currently use for smooth, fusion-y type leads is an old Skreddy Screwdriver (with the Led Zeppelin graphics), but it's a fuzz and the bottom end on it is very loose, so not useful on the neck pickup. I also ALWAYS have a buffer on in my signal chain when using more than 3 pedals. Especially since I use a volume pedal on my main board. I use a JHS buffer that is second in line. Seems to be the best place for it for me.

  32. #31

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    I will mostly be using it for recording through a clean amp sim of some kind and IR’s for cab and speaker sims. If I use it live it will be similar or my Princeton.

    Sounds like this is an ‘amp in a box’ so it might even work straight in (with IRs etc of course) The El Pescadoro i have is fabulous at this for instance.

    We’ll see how it gets on with my Tele. I can get a good drive lead sound on other gear so I know it’s possible.

    An EQ filter actually sounds like a good thing. I wonder how good it would cut through live though?

  33. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    Had to google it .. Dear God?




    But more seriously .. Give us a 1-2 line review once you've evaluated
    It comes from the distant future of 1986

  34. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    I will mostly be using it for recording through a clean amp sim of some kind and IR’s for cab and speaker sims. If I use it live it will be similar or my Princeton.

    We’ll see how it gets on with my Tele. I can get a good drive lead sound on other gear so I know it’s possible.
    Well, I can tell you I LOVE mine with my tele into a Princeton.

  35. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by ruger9
    Well, I can tell you I LOVE mine with my tele into a Princeton.
    Splendid

  36. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by citizenk74
    I've been searching for an embeddable image for some time, now, alas! with no results. May I strongly recommend the Danelectro Daddy-O overdrive. It has a well-voiced three-band EQ section for wide-ranging tone to taste, as well as a very tube-toned gain control. You can craft some very fine tones with this, from subtle throb to raging stackitosoty with the twist of a knob or four. Very sturdily built, its hefty metal case is nigh indestructible and doesn't take up many square inches on the floor or your pedalboard, if you have one. Thick, creamy mids on demand! Turn your Princeton* Charming into a Dumble-esque dragon at the press of a switch.

    Seriously, this is a great overdrive and rivals the best of my amps for tone - I've got a Brownface Vibroverb and a 50 watt Plexi, not to mention a wide-panel Tweed Deluxe with a field-coil speaker, to mention only three amps for comparison, and believe me, this is a whole lotta real close in a lot less space/weight.

    In my humble opinion, well worth the time/money to find out.

    * My DRRI just eats this up.
    I had one of those the nineties and just re-ordered one on reverb after this glowing review. When I had an HX Effects, I was drawn to the Prince of Tone overdrive model. Turns out the POT and Daddy O are based on the same Marshall Guv'nor circuit lineage. Really flexible and sounds great with low gain overdrive.

  37. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    I’m also aware that trying to get this sound with a Tele may also be a fools errand.

    TBH I think I’ll be happy with anything recommended above.
    If your tele doesn't have a 4 way switch to put the two pickups in series, it would be a good consideration for what you're trying to accomplish (and not expensive either). I get good results on my tele with a Wampler Euphoria (dumble type) which can get as clean or dirty as you need. That's through a PRRI SE I put a 12" Celestion Cream alnico in (amazing difference). Alternately, an Xotic EP Booster will really fatten things up and push the front end of the amp hard. Beyond that, it may be time for another guitar with HBs or p90s.

    P.S. If you haven't already, check out the tele forum TDPRI

  38. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Boy
    If your tele doesn't have a 4 way switch to put the two pickups in series, it would be a good consideration for what you're trying to accomplish (and not expensive either). I get good results on my tele with a Wampler Euphoria (dumble type) which can get as clean or dirty as you need. That's through a PRRI SE I put a 12" Celestion Cream alnico in (amazing difference). Alternately, an Xotic EP Booster will really fatten things up and push the front end of the amp hard. Beyond that, it may be time for another guitar with HBs or p90s.

    P.S. If you haven't already, check out the tele forum TDPRI
    i have a series option.

    Im not buying a new guitar lol

  39. #38

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    I don’t use pedals, but I am curious about the possibilities of the Hotcake.



  40. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    The tubescreamer works well for some stuff but I feel I want something a little creamier for more legato/horn like sounds.

    Any recommendations? Doesn’t have to be fancy.
    Here are my favorite pedals for fusion or legato lines.

    Since you are already familiar with Ibanez TS, I'll start with a similar but more versatile version:

    Ibanez Turbo Tube Screamer: (This has 4 modes for more tonal flexibility. These are great for studio work due to the different flavors of TS-themed overdrive they offer in a single pedal).

    Hermida Audio Zendrive: (I like the original, but they've since come out with several versions. They say these are so-called Dumble in a pedal, but I wouldn't know. I still sound like me. I think they are over-priced, but good for what they do).

    ProCo RAT: (They've come out with several versions. One even has an On/Off light! I use a White Face RAT Reissue. These are amazing sounding for legato lines and best of all, are relatively inexpensive.)

  41. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gitfiddler
    ProCo RAT: (They've come out with several versions. One even has an On/Off light! I use a White Face RAT Reissue. These are amazing sounding for legato lines and best of all, are relatively inexpensive.)
    Scofield used to use a Rat with the distortion barely cracked on. It's a great sound. I have an EHX Flatiron Fuzz to scratch that itch. A bit too "Marshall" for everyday use for my tastes, but good to have in the stable!

  42. #41

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    Another one you might want to consider is the Tubesteader Beekeeper:

    BEEKEEPER
    – Tubesteader


    "
    The Beekeeper is a hand-built guitar preamp in a pedal, featuring two vacuum tubes running at high voltage.
    Its design is inspired by the famous ODS circuit, usually associated with the signature sound of many legendary guitar players. As a result, Beekeeper is having a sparkling clean tone, which is gradually pushed into a smooth, rich, and touch-sensitive overdrive as you crank up the gain.


    There are several ways to integrate the Beekeeper into your rig: it can be connected to the other pedals on a pedalboard, into the front end of an amp, or directly into a power amp or FX-return input.
    The Beekeeper is a very “amp-like” pedal and responds accordingly. It’s not just a simple “stomp and go” pedal - some exploration is required to reveal its true potential. "

    The only down side is the price: $369 Cdn dollars or 208 GBP.

  43. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Well I have a ds1, which is currently in the naughty corner. Maybe I can give it another try. I do find it dreadfully fizzy though.
    Turn the tone knob back to about 11.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  44. #43

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    Ok the Dude arrived. Solid bit of metal could probably hurt someone with it.

    initial impressions
    - compressed
    - makes guitar very easy to play
    - definite amp in a box
    - sounds great through IR’s

    more to follow

  45. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug B
    Another one you might want to consider is the Tubesteader Beekeeper:

    BEEKEEPER
    – Tubesteader


    "
    The Beekeeper is a hand-built guitar preamp in a pedal, featuring two vacuum tubes running at high voltage.
    Its design is inspired by the famous ODS circuit, usually associated with the signature sound of many legendary guitar players. As a result, Beekeeper is having a sparkling clean tone, which is gradually pushed into a smooth, rich, and touch-sensitive overdrive as you crank up the gain.


    There are several ways to integrate the Beekeeper into your rig: it can be connected to the other pedals on a pedalboard, into the front end of an amp, or directly into a power amp or FX-return input.
    The Beekeeper is a very “amp-like” pedal and responds accordingly. It’s not just a simple “stomp and go” pedal - some exploration is required to reveal its true potential. "

    The only down side is the price: $369 Cdn dollars or 208 GBP.
    Nice pedal but expensive which is weird as it is made in Canada.

  46. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    Ok the Dude arrived. Solid bit of metal could probably hurt someone with it.

    initial impressions
    - compressed
    - makes guitar very easy to play
    - definite amp in a box
    - sounds great through IR’s

    more to follow
    Which amp (in a box)? I mean, I think it can make my PRRI sound like a Marshall on the bridge pickup, but it's marketed as a "Dumble" style pedal. I've never played a Dumble. But I look at it, and use it as, a "thick" drive (as opposed to a "transparent drive", which means no mid-hump). It's almost like adding a drive channel to a clean amp.

    Glad you're liking it so far!

  47. #46

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  48. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Woody Sound View Post
    Good grief, my CAR doesn't have that many controls! No thanks!

  49. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by ruger9 View Post
    Good grief, my CAR doesn't have that many controls! No thanks!
    It's basically a Pearce G2r without the power amp part. "A Pearce in a Pedal"

    What’s a nice drive for fusion?-pearce-g2r-stereo-guitar-amplifier_1_b86c4be779e20f0cef2ce323cd403c57-jpg
    What’s a nice drive for fusion?-suncoast-g2xl-guitar-preamp-jpg

  50. #49
    I'd suggest either one of theses:

    What’s a nice drive for fusion?-ocd-large-jpg


  51. #50

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    I'm not really a pedal guy, but recently listened to a Chick Corea recording with Bill Connors on guitar (Hymn to the Seventh Galaxy), and was reminded of how great a sound he got on that recording. That's got me wanting to dig out some of my pedals and see if I can't get something like that sweet singing legato tone. I'm thinking it may take stacking a couple pedals - like a boost and a drive to do so. It should be fun trying even if I don't get there.