Ibanez PM2, to keep or not to keep

[Joeontheguitar]

Hi all,

After sticking to a four-guitars-only routine for some time, I kept having the idea of having one full sized arch top. I tried an Eastman AR372 which sounded thin and lacked sustain, then an Ibanez AF200, which needed a lot of work and was too expensive for what it was, next an Ibanez AF105, which sounded too acoustic to my taste and at last an Ibanez PM2, which I bought with the possibility to return it within 30 days.

The PM2 feels comfortable: very nice neck, frets are nice (not as nice as my Eastmans, but good enough) and I like the size of the body. It sounds also pretty versatile: the tone knob yields a wide array of sounds. And it sounds electric, which I like. Good sustain too. I even like the looks, sort of. Not a fan of gold, but with this guitar, it works.

The reason I'm not sure to keep it is that it seems to lack a bit of the airiness that I was looking for. You know, that sound that when you dig in with the thumb that a bit of air is pushed out. To be honest: the strings are original and it's from 2019 (it was B stock) so these are pretty much done. Also, it's not 'amazing', for a lack of better words. But the stock pickup might not be the best there is, plus the strings, well, you know.
The construction is good: it's resonant and feels good.

On the one hand it's nice to have a cheap-ish (still around 900 euros though) guitar that plays very comfortable sitting down. Also nice to bring on a Holliday or in the car to wherever and not worry too much about it. On the other hand, my T64 and Romeo sound more alive, yet different, are also pretty versatile, don't feedback and are double the price, but still very affordable.

Any advice?

[Lobomov]

I suspect a pickup swap (and string change ) will fix your issues.


I've only tried it briefly ... It's is one of those bang for the buck guitars, but it still is a cheap guitar and is not a PM200 or an ES175. But reading your post it sounds like that is exactly what you're looking for, so yeah .. thrown in a nicer pup into it and I kinda suspect you're going to be happy.

[SoftwareGuy]

In my experience, "amazing" guitar are not the one you take on holiday. I think having a guitar that you are relaxed enough with to actually take it around and use it is a good thing. But you have to decide what you want.

[Joeontheguitar]

Thanks guys.
There's also a ES165 at an hour driving from my house. It's a 2001 and asking price is 1900. It's double the price of the PM2, but I might check it out.

[Marcel_A]

I suspect a pickup swap (and string change ) will fix your issues.


I've only tried it briefly ...

Why?

[Lobomov]

Why?

Cause the asian version of the super58 pickups while "nice" does to my ears sound a bit characterless and anemic, which is what I hear OP comolaining about.

While only trying the PM2 briefly, I have experience with those pups from other models as well.

[Jimmy blue note]

Cause the asian version of the super58 pickups while "nice" does to my ears sound a bit characterless and anemic, which is what I hear OP comolaining about.

While only trying the PM2 briefly, I have experience with those pups from other models as well.

Sendt fra min SM-G981B med Tapatalk

I agree with you Lobomov. I worked for Ibanez and although pickups are a very subjective area, for what is described by the OP, I'd personally recommend a different pickup, and a good setup (right strings, right action, perfect intonation because you'll hear more with a better pickup).
Those guitars have some amazingly good attributes including really good construction, really comfortable necks and they're rugged and built for a long life. I got a lot of Ibanez guitars at less than cost as a worker there, and working with the full line of guitars day after day, there is no doubt that Ibanez jazz guitars can benefit a lot from the sheer wealth of pickups available to the player.
I always replaced the pickups right from the start, set them up for the hands and playing styles of my friends, young players and gave them away and, because they loved these modified instruments so much, would play them all the time. And for an instrument like the PM, is what it needs to just get better, and better, and better over time. These are good players' instruments and this small mod could very well make it something you can't put down.

[Joeontheguitar]

Thanks guys.
A pup swap is something that I can't do myself (I should be able to do it, but my first try won't be on an arch top), but for 40 euro someone else can do it.
The tailpiece is also a bit of a weak link in the guitar, but it can be replaced.
I'm curious if a simple string swap will give it a little bit of thunk.

And I will sell one guitar from the collection if I decide to keep it. Probably a LP. Ever since I started playing lighter guitars with a bigger size I'm finding a LP too small to sit with and too heavy to stand with. Even sitting, you feel it pressing on your legs. But no feedback... and great tones.

[Jimmy blue note]

I'm curious if a simple string swap will give it a little bit of thunk.

.

With the risk of sending you down a road with too many options, there are things you can do that will change the feel of that instrument. Whether it makes you want to play it more is up to you of course.
If you change to a higher gauge strings, you'll feel more tension and the increased energy will be felt through the bridge and into the body. It'll also take more energy from you to fret a note. But with more tension, you can lower your action and lower the threshold of buzzing and rattling. But with a lower action you can show up any issues with high, uneven or inconsistent fret issues that were avoided by higher action. And you might feel it's not as defined a feel in your left hand. If you have a heavier attack in your right hand, this will also effect what you can get away with on a lower action.
So you see it's a balancing act. With each of those things, you have a range where you'll feel easier until you reach the limits of what you can get away with. That's why I suggested a setup and a string change.
Ultimately, in an ideal world, you'll work with a tech or luthier, find the relief you need in the neck, the gauge that gives you the sound you want, the action that gives you that sound/feel and who will level your high frets if it's revealed that that prevents you from getting where you need.
I've had people comment that after a really good setup, their instruments play better than instruments that they treasure in their collections. IMHO a good match of instrument/pickup/amp is the most obvious step in achieving the "voice" that brings out the feel that inspires. Top quality setup is the most overlooked step in bringing an instrument to a state fit for professional roadworthy playing.

[vernon]

I do believe the true issue here is the self-imposed “Four Guitar Limit” ~

[Jimmy blue note]

I do believe the true issue here is the self-imposed “Four Guitar Limit” ~

Myth with no truth at its basis.
The Four Guitar Limit is a point of discussion merely to assuage the guilt of keeping too many guitars. "At least I discussed it at depth and I can say without a doubt this is not an indulgence but a well thought out decision".
I'm happy to enable. And yeah, I have four guitars too

[lawson-stone]

Myth with no truth at its basis.
The Four Guitar Limit is a point of discussion merely to assuage the guilt of keeping too many guitars. "At least I discussed it at depth and I can say without a doubt this is not an indulgence but a well thought out decision".
I'm happy to enable. And yeah, I have four guitars too

Depends on where the limit actually applies. Mine is AT LEAST four guitars...

[Joeontheguitar]

I do believe the true issue here is the self-imposed “Four Guitar Limit” ~

Sometimes it takes someone else to point out the issue. You might be right. Keen observation.
Maybe it's also the fact that I bought a few guitars because I could get a nice deal on it, but never really loved in the first place, and sold them at a substantial loss. Don't want to go down that road again.

[Joeontheguitar]

Myth with no truth at its basis.
The Four Guitar Limit is a point of discussion merely to assuage the guilt of keeping too many guitars. "At least I discussed it at depth and I can say without a doubt this is not an indulgence but a well thought out decision".
I'm happy to enable. And yeah, I have four guitars too

English is not my native language. What do you mean with what you said above?

[Roy Boy]

I think jimmy blue note makes some real important points. Having worked for Ibanez and having had a lot of experience with that guitar and pickups, I think listening to him is a good idea.

Ibanez makes great guitars, I've never heard of anyone being dissatisfied with them on any of the other forums. I think it's important to not think of archtops in the same way as other guitars though. They are big boxes and it takes a lot of energy to get any kind of acoustic tone out of them. They're designed to be more percussive. I play 13s on my archtop (and 10s on all my solid body electrics) and find them very comfortable. The trapeze tailpiece really gives the feeling of lower tension.

Changing the pickup doesn't need to be a huge deal. If you want the classic PAF sound, there are tons of choices out there in the aftermarket, some quite reasonable. If you're more into the old classic jazz sound, check out archtop.com for some very nice pickups with that voicing.

Since you like most things about this guitar (especially the neck) I think it's worth putting a little time/money into. As jimmy suggested, new strings, heavier strings, action adjusted. A good setup done by a talented tech should get that guitar playing like butter. Swing away!

[Joeontheguitar]

Thanks guys!
In general I set up my own guitars: I can adjust the action with bridge height, adjust the truss rod if needed, polish frets, etc. A luthier will be able to do this better than I do probably. Pickup swaps are next level, but who know I might do this myself someday.

There's also the new PM25 coming up now. But who knows how long it will take before it hits the stores.

[Peter C]

1. A guitar that costs the equivalent of 2 months' rent is not cheap.
2. The installed pickup is good, not great. I've seen a used HBCC at a good price, maybe wrong colour.
3. D'Addario Chromes seem to sound good with any pickup. Thunky.
4. LPs are evil for sitting down playing.
4a. 4 guitars = 24 strings to change. 3 is enough

[Joeontheguitar]

I sent the PM2 back, auditioned an ES165 that I liked, but had a few issues (plus a seller that was just a horrible person) and I found a PM-100 a few days later for just a few hundred euro than I spent on the PM2.
The PM100 is here to stay. What a guitar! NGD will follow.