The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell
    As to the pickup volume - how close to the strings is the pickup? Pickup height has a definite effect on volume. The tone also changes to some degree as the height changes. It's a subjective decision as to which tone is better, it requires some experimentation and a Phillips screwdriver to find out which you prefer. I would try raising the pickup, lowering the polepieces if necessary, and see what results. It's all easily reversible by just turning the screwdriver in the opposite direction the required number of revolutions.
    Yes, the height adjustment is familiar for me. As I wrote in the #1 mail, I can’t get the pu’s so close to the strings to match the volume of my other ES175s.

    I read somewhere that the Shaws require 300 kOhm pots, interesting!

    But at the moment I have learned to live with the volume of this guitar, so I have no plans to change anything.

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  3. #27

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    So you like the mahogany 175 better than the RI?
    I actually had the same experience.”

    Better...? Rather ’different’. They are both great instruments, and VOS looks astonishing too. But at the moment the P90 one and the mahogany one feel like supplementing each other.

  4. #28

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    300K is not very far from 250K, and is Gibson's way of being different. The 300K just let a little bit more treble through. If it were mine, I would put 500K pots in it. I have no idea what is installed now. Some pickups are just hotter than others, either by design or by accident. Not much can be done for weak pickups other than turning up the amp volume. With hotter pickups, you can roll off the volume on either the guitar, the amp, or both, to alter the volume and tone to taste. I have no actual experience with Shaw pickups.

  5. #29

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    many guitar pots have a tolerance spec of +/- 20%...even premiums may have 10%...

    so using better +/- 10%, a 250k pot could be 275K, and a 300k pot could be 270k!...actually lower

    provided the wiring is correct, the difference in pickup volume could be the magnet strength..alnico II &III have less gauss than V....also the magnets could have been slightly degaussed over time...

    what makes a pickup hot is many winds of wire around the bobbin (a high k) and strong magnets...why hot humbuckers typically have 15k+ resistance winds and use ceramic magnets...

    of course loud volume and good tone are different matters

    cheers
    Last edited by neatomic; 03-04-2021 at 07:24 PM. Reason: cl-

  6. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by neatomic
    many guitar pots have a tolerance spec of +/- 20%...even premiums may have 10%...

    so using better +/- 10%, a 250k pot could be 275K, and a 300k pot could be 270k!...actually lower

    provided the wiring is correct, the difference in pickup volume could be the magnet strength..alnico II &III have less gauss than V....also the magnets could have been slightly degaussed over time...

    what makes a pickup hot is many winds of wire around the bobbin (a high k) and strong magnets...why hot humbuckers typically have 15k+ winds and use ceramic magnets...

    of course loud volume and good tone are different matters

    cheers
    I read somewhere that ’the secret’ of the Shaws is the Unoriented Alnico 5 magnets. Strength and sound somewhere in between A5 and A2.

    I have used UOA5s in some pickup in some Les Paul before and remember liking them.

    Now I have learned to turn the amp louder and I enjoy the sound of this guitar very much.

  7. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by neatomic
    many guitar pots have a tolerance spec of +/- 20%...even premiums may have 10%...

    so using better +/- 10%, a 250k pot could be 275K, and a 300k pot could be 270k!...actually lower

    provided the wiring is correct, the difference in pickup volume could be the magnet strength..alnico II &III have less gauss than V....also the magnets could have been slightly degaussed over time...

    what makes a pickup hot is many winds of wire around the bobbin (a high k) and strong magnets...why hot humbuckers typically have 15k+ winds and use ceramic magnets...

    of course loud volume and good tone are different matters

    cheers
    Degaussing...I like that theory! I remember from my childhood that magnets would mysteriously lose their strength. Why couldn't that happen to guitar magnets? In fact one is surprised old magnets have any field left at all. (Disclaimer, I'm not an engineer, just won the high school Physics award at my high school, where we didn't even study magnets. So I really don't know any more than what I read on Wikipedia.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Herbie
    I read somewhere that ’the secret’ of the Shaws is the Unoriented Alnico 5 magnets. Strength and sound somewhere in between A5 and A2.

    I have used UOA5s in some pickup in some Les Paul before and remember liking them.

    Now I have learned to turn the amp louder and I enjoy the sound of this guitar very much.
    Interesting! Now that I'm reading about Shaws (another thing I know virtually nothing about) I am feeling much better about my '82 175 purchase!

  8. #32

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    I bought a Norlin 72 or 76 175 cheaply about ten years ago. I found that the magnet in the neck pickup had degaussed to the point where it hardly made any sound, while the bridge pickup was fine. No obvious reason why..it was simply solved by disassembling the pickup and carefully inserting another A5 magnet, making sure to get the polarity right. It's a bit fiddly, but a quick job and little risk of damaging anything so long as you push the old magnet out with a wooden stick and not a screwdriver .

    So, magnets do lose their charge, sometimes for no apparent reason, and this can cause an unusually low output pickup. No need necessarily to change the pup..a new magnet is cheap enough. Worth trying?

  9. #33

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    what the alnico grades do (for pickups), is signify maximum gauss possible...but many pickup makers deliberately don't charge their magnets to maximum...they might have played a slightly degaussed vintage pup that they loved the tone of, and charge their new magnets to similar spec..a reliced magnet pickup if you will

    so theoretically you could have an alnico v that's charged weaker than alnico II....

    here's a chart


    you can see that alnico II can be more powerful than III & IV

    cheers

  10. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Franz 1997
    I bought a Norlin 72 or 76 175 cheaply about ten years ago. I found that the magnet in the neck pickup had degaussed to the point where it hardly made any sound, while the bridge pickup was fine. No obvious reason why..it was simply solved by disassembling the pickup and carefully inserting another A5 magnet, making sure to get the polarity right. It's a bit fiddly, but a quick job and little risk of damaging anything so long as you push the old magnet out with a wooden stick and not a screwdriver .

    So, magnets do lose their charge, sometimes for no apparent reason, and this can cause an unusually low output pickup. No need necessarily to change the pup..a new magnet is cheap enough. Worth trying?
    Alnico Bar Magnet | stewmac.com

  11. #35

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    I hear that once Keef plugged his guitar cord into a poorly grounded amp. There was an immediate electrical burst from the amp to the guitar. Fortunately he wasn’t hurt, but when he plugged his beloved Tele in another amp it hardly made a noise.

    Keef said, ”F***in’ amp flash, it’s degaussed-gaussed-gaussed.”

    Mick overhead his outburst, and immediately thought of the lyrics to a hit song. And the rest, as they say, is hysteria.

  12. #36

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    Thanks for everybody for inspecting the issue!

    The vol drop is not so big that it would be because of the degaussed magnets. It might be just the 'warmness' of the mahogany in the body compared to the maple that makes it sound mellower, softer – and thus giving an impression of lower volume?

    Magnet swapping used to be a hobby of mine! Then I sold the old Les Paul, bought a better one and now I have had same pickups in it over five years.

    But I still have a DIY Mustang with a Seymour Duncan '59 hb with A3 magnet in it. Makes it perfect for that guitar. And some extra A4 magnets waiting to be sold or used.

  13. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herbie
    Thanks for everybody for inspecting the issue!

    The vol drop is not so big that it would be because of the degaussed magnets. It might be just the 'warmness' of the mahogany in the body compared to the maple that makes it sound mellower, softer – and thus giving an impression of lower volume?

    Magnet swapping used to be a hobby of mine! Then I sold the old Les Paul, bought a better one and now I have had same pickups in it over five years.

    But I still have a DIY Mustang with a Seymour Duncan '59 hb with A3 magnet in it. Makes it perfect for that guitar. And some extra A4 magnets waiting to be sold or used.
    I think the odds favor your mahogany vs maple idea. My ES-175 55th Anniversary Edition has a mahogany neck and maple/poplar/maple back and sides. With its '57 Classics, it sounds just perfect to my ears.

  14. #38

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    Hmm.

    I have had a busy month with work (and cross skiing, while we still have snow here!) and I have had not much time to play a bit longer time with these guitars. On weekend I played and noticed weird thing.

    When I played the 1984 ES I had to use my left hand fingers very precisely and with an extra effort to get the things played correctly. With my other two ES-175s the playing the things I know is easy. With the 1984 I am a poor starter, with the others I am a virtuoso!

    Seemingly there is nothing wrong with the guitar. The strings are low but nothing buzzes. Single notes are easy to play and sound nice.

    All I could think was the frets.

    I took my calipers and was surprised. All were about 0,5 mm (0,023 in) and the lowest were under that, even 0,43 mm (0,016 in). Then I compared to the frets of my 1959VOS and 1954RI, which were about 1 mm high (0,04 in).

    So when monday came I took the guitar to my tech to install new frets in it.

    I should have noted this thing earlier, but I have never had any problems with frets. I even don't know am I right or wrong with this diagnosis. That makes me feel quite amateurish... or let's say straight: stupid. Did I just spoil "all original" guitar and spent about 300€ in vain? We'll see...

    Gibson ES-175 Nat Mahogany 1984-img_2773-jpg

    Gibson ES-175 Nat Mahogany 1984-img_2772-jpg

  15. #39

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    Beautiful guitars. Congratulations.

    Whatever you decide to keep, enjoy it in good health.

  16. #40

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    Hi Herbie
    frets really are a matter if personal preference, so let your fingers decide for you. Having a “heavy” fretting hand I prefer low frets for jazz (little or no bending), and medium-high for other styles
    Last edited by Ray175; 03-19-2021 at 11:50 AM.

  17. #41

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    Your caliper looks like my Harbor Freight special. IDK, maybe it’s a precision instrument, but I think the margin of error is too great at a fraction of a MM to draw firm conclusions.

    I’m sure your guitar will benefit from a fret upgrade.

    Refrets? I’ve had a few.
    But then again, too few to mention.

  18. #42

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    Frets and strings need replaced from time to time. I have never regretted paying for a refretting. Look at it this way - even if you might be refretting a bit early (and I am not saying that you are) it's something you won't need to worry about for a long time.

    As far as "all original goes" when I buy a guitar that is not brand new, and I see it shows no signs of wear, I have to wonder - what's wrong with this guitar that it wasn't played? No signs of loving use? Hmmmmn.

  19. #43

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    I definitely don't think you spent the money in vain. I bet it will play so much better after your luthier is done with it. As far as original - frets are one of the things that don't really seem to affect value. If anything I am more interested in an old guitar if has recently had the frets done correctly and well. If a guitar gets played eventually they all must be changed

  20. #44

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    So I sold the ES-175 VOS. Luckily the buyer is a guy who has had some lessons from Joe Pass in mid '80s here in Finland! Not many of them here! It was easy to sell the dear guitar for a man like that!

    The serial number of my 1984 ES175 starts with 80054XXX. So the guitar was made in the 5th day of the year 1985. It means January 5th 1984. There was mild winter then in Nashville, according to the Tennessean:

    Gibson ES-175 Nat Mahogany 1984-img_2957-png

    I put in it an ebony bridge that I had in the drawer. Sounds nice.

    The stock brass bridge looks like this. "Made in Germany" is the tiny text there. Germany?

    Is this so called Nashville bridge from those days?

    Gibson ES-175 Nat Mahogany 1984-img_2961-jpg

    From up:

    Gibson ES-175 Nat Mahogany 1984-img_2962-jpg

    And with the loose parts:

    Gibson ES-175 Nat Mahogany 1984-img_2963-jpg

    I tried to put a normal size ABR bridge to the base but the posts are a tiny bit too far away.

    A bit annoying... will I ever get over that... (a smiley)

  21. #45
    Hi Herbie,
    Enjoying this thread very much.
    I also have a mahogany 175 after previously owning a maple body 175. I am also finding the guitar hard to play which I have put down to the very low flat frets, and I am considering a refret. How did yours go? Did you find the easier playing that you anticipated?

  22. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Universe
    Hi Herbie,
    Enjoying this thread very much.
    I also have a mahogany 175 after previously owning a maple body 175. I am also finding the guitar hard to play which I have put down to the very low flat frets, and I am considering a refret. How did yours go? Did you find the easier playing that you anticipated?
    Hi, Eric! Thanks!
    After the fret job I have been playing the Mahogany ES175 as much as I can to acclimatize with it. I have not noticed hand fatigue anymore, playing is nice and easy.

    But due to epidemic atmosphere here in Finland too I haven't played it in rehearsals nor gigs or anything like that since last autumn, so this experience is based only on playing at home on the sofa while looking tv with my wife. (Yes, she is very tolerate – and I have learned to play very quiet!)

    What Year is Your 175 made? Do You have pics of it?

  23. #47
    Mine is a 1988 blonde natural. I don't have pics, but I think the natural looks fabulous with the mahogany.

  24. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric the Universe
    Hi Herbie,
    Enjoying this thread very much.
    I also have a mahogany 175 after previously owning a maple body 175. I am also finding the guitar hard to play which I have put down to the very low flat frets, and I am considering a refret. How did yours go? Did you find the easier playing that you anticipated?