P12Q on steroid?

[Zhahn]

I have an old Clark Beaufort Special that’s been my go-to small amp for the last decade and some.

Originally, it came with the Recoton Jensen P12Q that was decent, but caved too soon at volume, and not very efficient (I like some clean headroom for my 5E3’s), so off it went soon.

I tried old and new P12N’s, but no cigar. Love the tone and the volume of the Jupiter 12LA currently in it, and so far this has been the best overall choice. However, to me it’s more like P12N on steroid.

Is there anything out there that retains the clear, crispy treble and woody mids, yet stays cleaner, louder (higher efficiency), tighter at the bottom than the old Jensen P12Q?

Thanks in advance!

[omphalopsychos]

I know what you mean about the Jupiter 12LA. The magnet is bigger than a P12N. Wonderful tone but for me it is too loud and huge sounding.

You may try weber speakers. They have a variety of p12q type speakers with different cones. The 12a125 has a lot of ribs and I think tends to be piercing in a tweed amp. The 12a125a has inverted ribs which sounds nice but I feel like the the top end is a little dull. Maybe after enough break in it sounds better but I wasn’t so into it. The 12a125p sounds interesting, and it might have some of the characteristics you’re looking for.

If you’re looking for something between a p12q and a p12n, you may consider a p10n type of speaker. Weber makes a good one. I bet the Jupiter one is even better.

[Zhahn]

Thanks!
I did try out a few Webers, but not in my Clark.
The Weber alnicos I tried out were a bit on the low-headroom side, though.
It might have been a 150-type.
Also had a bit of high-mid nasal thing going.

I’d have to look into the ones you recommended.

Edit: I remember an O (smooth cone) I tried and liked the tone, but it had even less headroom.

[D.G.]

I have a c12q in my 5e3. It replaced a P12q. Tighter bottom, more top end. Stays together longer. Maybe a bit louder. I like it!

[Zhahn]

Yeah, had a c12p for a BF amp a long time ago. Very nice, bit on the bright side with the treble not as sweet as alnico.

A modern alnico counterpart would be nice!

[Gitterbug]

The new 12" Jensen Blackbird 40 AlNiCo is stunning.

[Zhahn]

The new 12" Jensen Blackbird 40 AlNiCo is stunning.

I’ve been curious about BB 40.
Blackbird 100 has been the longest serving speaker in my “big amp” (Mesa Mark I RI).
How do these two compare, in terms of tonal qualities, eq’s and etc.?
I did try the BB 100 in the Clark and found it a bit too bottom-heavy, as expected.

[ThatRhythmMan]

Have you asked Michael Clark about it? I’m not sure about the Beaufort, but I think he may be using a Tone Tubby model as the standard in them now. He might have a better idea as I’m sure he’s tried several different speaker models in that particular amp.

[Gitterbug]

I’ve been curious about BB 40.
Blackbird 100 has been the longest serving speaker in my “big amp” (Mesa Mark I RI).
How do these two compare, in terms of tonal qualities, eq’s and etc.?
I did try the BB 100 in the Clark and found it a bit too bottom-heavy, as expected.

Hi! I have no experience on the BB 100 but believe it's meant for heavy rock'n'roll. The BB 40 is a different breed, very vintage-y. We were shooting a TOOB demo video earlier today, with a 12" Tornado and the BB 40 in identical cabs. The difference was remarkable. I've always held that the Tornado is articulate and balanced, and so it was today as well. But the BB, despite a 96 dB sensitivity against Tornado's 99 was louder and brighter, without losing anything at the bass end, i.e. even more articulate. I believe the perceived loudness comes from a stronger treble end which really cuts through without being unpleasant. Our tubular cabs have no baffle, hence they are more omnidirectional than traditional boxes with their pronounced treble spikes. I have also done home testing of the BB 40 on jazz guitars and settings. Rolling back the neck pickup's tone to 5 and below leaves a nice darker tone with no muddiness on the low E string. However, the speaker being somewhat scooped, the tone doesn't get overly nasal or "brown" even when both PU's are in use. Of course, this is all subjective and preliminary.

Cheers, Markku

Disclaimer: I make the TOOB ultra-light speaker cabs for guitar, bass and other musical instruments. While I've mounted almost 300 Jensen and SICA speakers, and maintain contact with some of the factory's experts, there's no contractual relationship or obligation to laud their products. I'm buying the speakers from a distributor and also use Celestions for bass and an occasional Eminence per customer request.

[Zhahn]

Thank you, Markku.
I love and am familiar with Tornado 100 which bumped out several speakers in my Ampeg 518 Dolphin Special.
BB 40 sounds really interesting, especially in a baffle-less TOOB!
I will definitely check out your new demos.

Oh, and this is how I use my BB 100/Mesa.

Ugly Beauty - YouTube

edit: link

[bluejaybill]

I would suggest looking at the Fat Jimmy 1270. Like the Jupiter, it is made by WGS and loosely based on one of their speaker models. I have one in my Fat Jimmy amp, and it is a higher efficiency speaker that stays cleaner longer than a typical Jensen, and probably in the ballpark tonally, though it is a ceramic speaker. I find I like it a lot for jazz playing, and I also plug in a vintage Deluxe Reverb or even a Marshall JTM45 at times. Just a great clean speaker IMHO.

He also makes an alnico variant with a lower wattage rating. I haven't tried those, and they are in limited supply because of Covid.

Good luck!

https://vintagefenderamprepair.com/p...nt=48451141005

[neatomic]

Is there anything out there that retains the clear, crispy treble and woody mids, yet stays cleaner, louder (higher efficiency), tighter at the bottom than the old Jensen P12Q?

first off check this article from premierguitar

Tools for the Task: 12" Alnico Replacement Speakers | Premier Guitar

i'm long time celestion alnico gold fan..think it's one of the best alnico speakers ever...as far as what you are looking for (what i quoted ^)...the jensen p12q has a resonant frequency of 90..and a sensitivity in the low mid 90's...the gold has 75hz resonant frequency and 100 db sensitivity...so it will have lower tighter bottom end, have way better efficiency and crisp clean highs..with fairly even mids...and with increased power handling....all your requirements!!


cheers

[Zhahn]

first off check this article from premierguitar

Tools for the Task: 12" Alnico Replacement Speakers | Premier Guitar

i'm long time celestion alnico gold fan..think it's one of the best alnico speakers ever...as far as what you are looking for (what i quoted ^)...the jensen p12q has a resonant frequency of 90..and a sensitivity in the low mid 90's...the gold has 75hz resonant frequency and 100 db sensitivity...so it will have lower tighter bottom end, have way better efficiency and crisp clean highs..with fairly even mids...and with increased power handling....all your requirements!!


cheers

Ah, the good ole Gold.
A fan myself, too. A very different voicing from the good ole P12Q, though
But I’m trying to see if there’s anything out there that’s basically a true “update” of Chicago Jensen P12Q that’s actually useable today.

[omphalopsychos]

I'll add that I'm super into the Gold - especially in a blackface amp. A 10" gold in a princeton makes one of the coolest sounding amps out there. I'm less into the gold in a tweed, but that's a matter of taste.

Tone tubby speakers are good but the ones I've tried have a very specific character (very restrained high end). Also a lot of them tend to be pretty low efficiency. Their website's descriptions are not super helpful, but I found this site to have good info: Tone Tubby Hempcone Speakers for sale at discount prices. Also, they are very responsive over the phone. If you're curious about what speaker to try, your best bet is to give them a call.

The Fat Jimmy seems cool but they don't list the magnet/voice coil sizes. As far as I know WGS and Jupiter both only make large size magnets for their 12" alnico, which would put you back in P12N category like the 12LA. I suspect that 12" Fat Jimmy Alnico is probably the same.

I do have to agree with your feedback on the Webers. I think some of them have a slightly nasal quality to them (12a125a sounded that way to me). But some of them are absolutely amazing (10a125 for example, their P10Q). Maybe they just need to be broken in?

That Jensen Blackbird 40 sounds pretty cool, I hadn't heard of it before. On paper it does sound like exactly what you're looking for. If that's not a P12Q on steroids I dunno what is. By the way, the P12R is also a great speaker. I don't know about the reissues but I pulled the vintage P12Q out of a tweed amp in favor of a vintage P12R.

[Zhahn]

I'll add that I'm super into the Gold - especially in a blackface amp. A 10" gold in a princeton makes one of the coolest sounding amps out there. I'm less into the gold in a tweed, but that's a matter of taste.

Tone tubby speakers are good but the ones I've tried have a very specific character (very restrained high end). Also a lot of them tend to be pretty low efficiency. Their website's descriptions are not super helpful, but I found this site to have good info: Tone Tubby Hempcone Speakers for sale at discount prices. Also, they are very responsive over the phone. If you're curious about what speaker to try, your best bet is to give them a call.

The Fat Jimmy seems cool but they don't list the magnet/voice coil sizes. As far as I know WGS and Jupiter both only make large size magnets for their 12" alnico, which would put you back in P12N category like the 12LA. I suspect that 12" Fat Jimmy Alnico is probably the same.

I do have to agree with your feedback on the Webers. I think some of them have a slightly nasal quality to them (12a125a sounded that way to me). But some of them are absolutely amazing (10a125 for example, their P10Q). Maybe they just need to be broken in?

That Jensen Blackbird 40 sounds pretty cool, I hadn't heard of it before. On paper it does sound like exactly what you're looking for. If that's not a P12Q on steroids I dunno what is. By the way, the P12R is also a great speaker. I don't know about the reissues but I pulled the vintage P12Q out of a tweed amp in favor of a vintage P12R.

Right?
I actually do think G10 (Gold) is one of the best speakers out there; I like it even better than the 12” Gold.
At one point, I was seriously considering putting a new baffle for 2x10 for my 1x15 Blankenship FBS w/ Sour Cream so I could put 2 Golds in.

I guess you as a speaker designer/ manufacturer gotta get lucky sometimes. Some combinations of all the parts work better than others. Maybe Weber 10A125 is one such a combination, like the two Golds, though this is entirely subjective.

Hopefully the new Jensen BB 40 is such a case. I like the plots; sort of like a quieter P12N below 1k, and similar to the P12Q above that.
And the review from Markku sounds very promising, too.